WillE
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Fri Aug-28-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #90 |
| 92. You conveniently ignore the analysis which refutes you |
|
Edited on Fri Aug-28-09 12:15 AM by WillE
Your pre-election challenge to find a PA pre-election poll to match the exits was a perfect illustration of why no one believes you anymore.
1) Besides being a ridiculous challenge, it was blatant cherry-picking. 2) But I fooled you. I gave you more TIA information than you asked for. 3) It showed that the unadjusted exits had a lower margin. 4) It showed that the final pre-election trend was to Kerry at 50-45. 5) A reasonable allocation was applied to the undecided 4%. 6) Final pre-election LV polls understated Kerry's projected share in that high turnout election of 22 million new voters. The larger RV poll superset would surely have indicated a bigger margin for Kerry everywhere, not just in PA. In 2004 the pollsters underestimated turnout. So a 51-44 or 52-43 split was very feasible. 7) But undecided voters need to be allocated. 8) It was a 53-46 projection using the 50-45 LV poll(conservative) 9) It was 54-45 or 55-44 in the RV. Kerry did 2% better in RVs (see the pre-election RV/LV graph).
THIS SIMPLE EXERCISE IN BASIC LOGIC GAVE AN EXACT MATCH TO THE EXITS. NOTHING IMPLAUSIBLE HERE. JUST BASIC ARITHMETIC ON THE BACK OF AN ENVELOPE. BUT YOU PREFER NOT TO CONSIDER IT.
YOU WOULD RATHER WAX POETIC ABOUT "SURPRISE". YOU NEVER FAIL TO DISAPPOINT. NO SURPRISE. YOU NEVER CONSIDER A RATIONAL ANALYSIS INCOMPLETE PRE-ELECTION AND EXIT POLL DATA.
You prefer to get into interminable pissing contests - even when you are drowning. Could you name one analyst or political scientist who agrees with you at this point? How come we have never heard of even one "expert" lauding your work? The graphs debunked 16 myths that you helped propagate.
Your bag of tricks have included Swing vs. red-shift False recall Slow drifting fog Surprise Retrospective bandwagon effect Lousy exit polls Cherry-picked pre-election polls and on and on...see the pattern, Mr. Other? It's all faith-based mumbo jumbo.
On the Other Hand, you never consider factual data such as Approval ratings Undecided voters RV vs. LV polls Net Uncounted votes Correlation analysis Late votes Mortality Voter Turnout New voters Returning voters Third-party voters Phantom returning voters Sensitivity analysis of alternative scenarios Expected value Correlation analysis Monte Carlo simulation Probability analysis Recursive True Vote Models Aggregate state exit polls Forcing exit polls to match the recorded vote .... In other words...you never do an analysis. But I am repeat myself.
Not many tricks are left in that bag of yours, eh?
|
| -NY: Computer Tallies Can't be Trusted |
Wilms |
Jul-26-09 09:57 PM |
#0 |
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Its not that an accurate reliable machine can't be built....it's just easier to hide the fraud by... |
yourout |
Jul-26-09 10:17 PM |
#1 |
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the risk is more limited with Lever, whereas with computer |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Jul-26-09 11:28 PM |
#2 |
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Important for NYers |
clear eye |
Jul-27-09 03:44 AM |
#3 |
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New York Anomalies: 19 Levers stuck on Bush, none on Kerry (EIRS) |
WillE |
Aug-12-09 11:55 AM |
#4 |
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So are you saying computer tallies CAN BE TRUSTED then? |
Bill Bored |
Aug-12-09 02:14 PM |
#5 |
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Oh, and maybe you can explain how 19 broken machines out of 7,000 in NYC... |
Bill Bored |
Aug-12-09 02:46 PM |
#6 |
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You have avoided the facts presented in the post and appear quite defensive. |
WillE |
Aug-13-09 12:22 PM |
#7 |
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Damn right I'm defensive! Here's why: |
Bill Bored |
Aug-13-09 12:57 PM |
#8 |
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Define Dem Share |
Bill Bored |
Aug-13-09 01:22 PM |
#9 |
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Do you think that would be a lot of trouble and risk just to pad the popular vote? |
Wilms |
Aug-13-09 10:46 PM |
#10 |
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580,000 NY late votes; analysis of incidents, county size, Urban Legend…and a response |
WillE |
Aug-14-09 11:57 AM |
#11 |
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Everyone knows the problem, at issue is which is worse? |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Aug-14-09 01:36 PM |
#12 |
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Sorry, but you DO have to explain HOW the machines could have miscounted so many votes. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-14-09 01:48 PM |
#13 |
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Sorry to waste your time with facts |
WillE |
Aug-14-09 03:52 PM |
#15 |
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Are you going to answer my question or not?: How many lever machines had to be hacked... |
Bill Bored |
Aug-14-09 04:23 PM |
#16 |
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A response and some questions for you |
WillE |
Aug-14-09 03:26 PM |
#14 |
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well, there you go: unsupported dogma |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-14-09 04:24 PM |
#17 |
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These reports sound like a Primary with separate Dem and Repub machines. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-14-09 07:44 PM |
#18 |
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Thanks for using the word "believe". That's honest. Belief, while limited, is all we have. |
Wilms |
Aug-14-09 11:30 PM |
#19 |
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Your comments indicate some confusion and a touch of desperation |
WillE |
Aug-15-09 12:17 PM |
#20 |
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Confusion? Projection? |
Wilms |
Aug-15-09 01:25 PM |
#21 |
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The raw data show that Bush didn't do better compared to 2000 in the precincts with the largest WPE. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-15-09 01:54 PM |
#22 |
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: Motive, Means, and Opportunity |
WillE |
Aug-17-09 01:52 PM |
#24 |
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I guess I'll stick to one or two odd claims per post |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-17-09 03:38 PM |
#25 |
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Oooooo! |
WillYourVoteBCounted |
Aug-20-09 01:57 AM |
#41 |
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the scary thing is, he still hasn't figured it out |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-20-09 05:31 AM |
#42 |
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Who said levers were "fraud proof"? Other than you claiming someone did, that is? |
Wilms |
Aug-17-09 10:57 PM |
#26 |
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The HNYVA of 1892 |
WillE |
Aug-18-09 12:01 PM |
#27 |
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HCPB zombies don't seem to realize HCPB is not on the menu. |
Wilms |
Aug-18-09 10:27 PM |
#35 |
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No paper trail? How about NO RECOUNTS? |
Bill Bored |
Aug-19-09 12:39 AM |
#38 |
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Levers are the “gold standard” with an 11% WPE? |
WillE |
Aug-19-09 03:25 PM |
#40 |
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WPE is no standard at all. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-20-09 11:27 PM |
#44 |
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Too time-consuming to respond to all this but... |
Bill Bored |
Aug-19-09 12:10 AM |
#37 |
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There can be no stuffing of votes? |
WillE |
Aug-19-09 02:52 PM |
#39 |
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You think Open Source means Hand Counted or what? |
Bill Bored |
Aug-20-09 11:02 PM |
#43 |
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: Let’s summarize an analysis of the facts. Warning: slow load. |
WillE |
Aug-21-09 03:28 PM |
#46 |
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"slow load"?! (snark redacted) |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-21-09 07:37 PM |
#47 |
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(crickets) n/t |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 03:51 PM |
#54 |
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Finally, something about Voting Systems! |
Bill Bored |
Aug-21-09 10:35 PM |
#48 |
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More red flags! Average NY WPE: Bush 8.0 (1988,1992,2004); Clinton 0.6 (1996, 2000) |
WillE |
Aug-23-09 10:38 AM |
#49 |
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Bush was running for reelection in 1988? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 12:03 PM |
#50 |
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You need to take an algebra class |
WillE |
Aug-23-09 01:56 PM |
#51 |
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oh, brother |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 03:46 PM |
#52 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-23-09 05:38 PM |
#55 |
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O RLY? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 06:02 PM |
#56 |
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1 was wrong. You were right. I know Bush was VP. Address the wpe anomaly |
WillE |
Aug-23-09 07:59 PM |
#57 |
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I take that back. Another look at the top 15 NY counties and the Urban Legend. |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 07:20 AM |
#58 |
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"I was essentially correct in my prior analysis." You were? And TIA? |
Wilms |
Aug-24-09 09:09 AM |
#59 |
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"Hell, let’s be honest: it’s impossible." |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 09:37 AM |
#60 |
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There is much to refute here, but it's very easy to do. Just watch. |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 12:09 PM |
#61 |
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it's boring to correct you over, and over, and over again |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 12:43 PM |
#62 |
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That was a truly weak response - as expected |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 02:32 PM |
#63 |
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"Kerry won ALL three exit polls"? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 02:54 PM |
#64 |
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Here's a NY 2004 True Vote Sensitivity Analysis. Did you ever do one? |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 04:17 PM |
#65 |
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all this is facially silly |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 05:00 PM |
#66 |
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What's incredulous is your faith-based jargon and avoidance of analytical thought. |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 05:31 PM |
#67 |
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"Now I know how Galileo felt." |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-24-09 05:38 PM |
#68 |
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If you used exit polls in your "analysis " it was to thrash them n/t |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 10:02 PM |
#71 |
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spoken like, yes, a fundamentalist |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-25-09 07:59 AM |
#74 |
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Better things to do? Yes! Tell us how many lever machines would have to be HACKED to account for... |
Bill Bored |
Aug-24-09 09:35 PM |
#69 |
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See post #49 |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 09:59 PM |
#70 |
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This is not about "trusting exit polls" . It's about considering ALL the evidence... |
WillE |
Aug-24-09 10:16 PM |
#72 |
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How many machines was that again? nt |
Bill Bored |
Aug-24-09 11:21 PM |
#73 |
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for your convenience... |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-25-09 10:12 AM |
#75 |
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Thanks for bringing all this back in full view again |
WillE |
Aug-25-09 04:55 PM |
#76 |
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"Do you have any proof that they weren't?" |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-25-09 06:02 PM |
#77 |
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I accept your recession |
WillE |
Aug-25-09 08:26 PM |
#78 |
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yeah, well |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-25-09 09:03 PM |
#79 |
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No, I'm still here :) |
Febble |
Aug-26-09 05:30 PM |
#80 |
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wanna play "Urban Legend"? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-15-09 02:14 PM |
#23 |
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This will not make your day. It will spoil it. |
WillE |
Aug-18-09 12:19 PM |
#28 |
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you just aren't very good at analysis, apparently |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-18-09 01:51 PM |
#29 |
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Your disinformation campaign rolls on |
WillE |
Aug-18-09 03:56 PM |
#30 |
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sigh |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-18-09 04:54 PM |
#31 |
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Mr. Other, you have been exposed |
WillE |
Aug-18-09 05:34 PM |
#32 |
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uh, no |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-18-09 07:47 PM |
#34 |
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(crickets) n/t |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-23-09 03:50 PM |
#53 |
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CORRECTION TO LATE NY PAPER VOTES; EXIT POLL COMPARISONS |
WillE |
Sep-01-09 07:12 PM |
#145 |
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4.5 years and you're still making "corrections". That's inspiring. n/t |
Wilms |
Sep-01-09 08:51 PM |
#146 |
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You never have to correct a thing. Cuz you never do analysis. Very uninspiring. |
WillE |
Sep-01-09 10:24 PM |
#147 |
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## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ## |
DU GrovelBot |
Aug-18-09 05:34 PM |
#33 |
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Well, we're gonna let an exit poll define your programming. OK, Grov? |
Wilms |
Aug-18-09 10:29 PM |
#36 |
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The reality is we have had GOP election theft for decades . . . with complicity of corporate press . |
defendandprotect |
Aug-21-09 02:12 AM |
#45 |
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Election Fraud is endemic. These TIA graphs debunk all the Disinfo. |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 12:17 PM |
#81 |
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TIA FAQ: whined about, but never refuted |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 12:32 PM |
#82 |
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You concede when all you can do you is cherry-pick |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 01:31 PM |
#83 |
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I didn't cherrypick |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 02:15 PM |
#85 |
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He refuted it in spades |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 01:43 PM |
#84 |
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nope |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 02:30 PM |
#86 |
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No point in trying to discuss? Of course, because you can't. |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 03:45 PM |
#87 |
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what point have I not responded to? be specific |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 04:07 PM |
#88 |
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Once again, you are hoisted on your own petard. |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 06:45 PM |
#89 |
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trash talk aside, you're wrong again |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-27-09 09:04 PM |
#90 |
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You conveniently ignore the analysis which refutes you |
WillE |
Aug-28-09 12:05 AM |
#92 |
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And I thought electronic vote counting schema was a pretty iffy way to determine outcomes. |
Wilms |
Aug-28-09 12:33 AM |
#93 |
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Distracted? Uh, this is a thread about why we should trust computers to count votes in NY, right? nt |
Bill Bored |
Aug-28-09 07:31 PM |
#97 |
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you're simply misrepresenting the PA exit polls |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-28-09 06:10 AM |
#94 |
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A FREE online book about Kerry's 2004 landslide |
WillE |
Aug-27-09 10:22 PM |
#91 |
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TIA FAQ Response Summary Update - Includes 2008 reference |
WillE |
Aug-28-09 08:09 AM |
#95 |
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my double dog dare stands n/t |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-28-09 09:26 AM |
#96 |
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The analysis that you won't do proves you dead wrong once again. Your move... |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 09:19 AM |
#98 |
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sorry, you're still pwned |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-29-09 10:11 AM |
#99 |
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Your myths vs. the facts. Now show us your cherry-picked PA LV polls |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 11:33 AM |
#100 |
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Hmmm. "true activists are winning" you say. |
Wilms |
Aug-29-09 11:55 AM |
#101 |
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Show us your numbers and stop whining! |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 12:07 PM |
#102 |
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I'm whinning. |
Wilms |
Aug-29-09 12:17 PM |
#104 |
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Take your pick. Column A or Column B? Steak or Pork? |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 02:20 PM |
#105 |
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Analysis is anything but black and white. |
Wilms |
Aug-29-09 02:31 PM |
#106 |
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HS Litmis test?I have no problem with your having a problem... |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 03:04 PM |
#108 |
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It's time for you to recognize some facts..... |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 01:44 AM |
#115 |
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Gimme an example. |
Wilms |
Aug-30-09 02:07 AM |
#116 |
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Strawman. You avoid my question and are putting words in my mouth. |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 02:19 AM |
#117 |
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Don't be silly! Activism was a result of the radical Bush regime and FL 2000. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-30-09 03:25 AM |
#118 |
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Activism was muted in 2001; it became widespread in Nov. 2004 |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 09:58 AM |
#119 |
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Ah, but most Dems in Congress voted FOR HAVA! They considered themselves to be reformers! |
Bill Bored |
Aug-30-09 08:46 PM |
#120 |
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You just don 't get it, do you? |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 09:41 PM |
#121 |
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You're still not listening. And may well never. |
Wilms |
Aug-30-09 10:12 PM |
#122 |
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You avoid the content of the post. |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 10:34 PM |
#125 |
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Human Miscounts? |
Wilms |
Aug-31-09 01:00 AM |
#134 |
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I don't CARE what the polls say. They are just polls -- not voting systems. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-30-09 10:17 PM |
#123 |
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In fact, where are all the true-believers? |
Wilms |
Aug-30-09 10:28 PM |
#124 |
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Now it is clear... |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 10:45 PM |
#127 |
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I have no troops. |
Wilms |
Aug-31-09 01:03 AM |
#135 |
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You really DO have blinders on. |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 10:42 PM |
#126 |
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You wrote: "No one is contesting that the levers are accurate." Good! Then my work here is done. |
Bill Bored |
Aug-30-09 10:46 PM |
#128 |
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No, your work has just started.. |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 11:11 PM |
#129 |
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Didn't Bush run in 2000? |
yowzayowzayowza |
Aug-30-09 11:22 PM |
#131 |
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Bush was NOT the incumbent in 2k. He was in '04. He had means, motive and opportunity. |
WillE |
Aug-30-09 11:35 PM |
#132 |
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Welp, at least we agree that it is a ... |
yowzayowzayowza |
Aug-30-09 11:51 PM |
#133 |
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but, WillE, |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 05:16 AM |
#137 |
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You either don't read or you quickly forget: Motive. Means. Opportunity |
WillE |
Aug-31-09 06:53 AM |
#139 |
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projection much? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 07:36 AM |
#141 |
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of course he can "have it both ways" -- think about it |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 05:06 AM |
#136 |
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You want to talk about "blind faith"? OK. |
WillE |
Aug-31-09 07:29 AM |
#140 |
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darling, you're in a panic |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 07:57 AM |
#142 |
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Show us YOUR numbers. Here is the NY True Vote analysis you WON'T DARE do. |
WillE |
Aug-31-09 08:59 AM |
#143 |
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as usual, you have no counter to ANY of my points |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 09:31 AM |
#144 |
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You really *are* an optimist!!! n/t |
yowzayowzayowza |
Aug-30-09 11:20 PM |
#130 |
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you didn't respond to any of my points |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-29-09 12:16 PM |
#103 |
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As usual, you are a no show |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 02:53 PM |
#107 |
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care to try again in English? |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-29-09 03:21 PM |
#109 |
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Now about those LVs and Rvs- you have shown us NADA |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 03:54 PM |
#110 |
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JIm Lampley on Bradblog in 2005 |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 04:40 PM |
#111 |
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Must Listen! Jim Lampley of HBO on Bradblog in May 2005 |
WillE |
Aug-29-09 06:05 PM |
#113 |
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I recall that interview. Was very happy to hear it. |
Wilms |
Aug-29-09 06:48 PM |
#114 |
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here's an interesting part |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-31-09 05:19 AM |
#138 |
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no, you haven't |
OnTheOtherHand |
Aug-29-09 04:56 PM |
#112 |