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Reply #14: There ARE pros and cons [View All]

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. There ARE pros and cons
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 12:56 AM by WillYourVoteBCounted
and also other things to consider, which is why I am ambivalent.

I totally oppose the argument that requires attacking either Holt (for the bill)
or that attacks the late John Gideon or Ellen Theisen (against).

For your information, Ellen Theisen is not promoting the VotePad and further she has no
vested interest in the Holt bill.

My pros and cons:

pro -

reluctant states will be forced to have paper ballot systems and will
have to ditch paperless DRES.

DREs are eliminated.

cons -

a billion $ will be spent on voting systems, helping out ES&S, Diebold, Sequoia and Hart Intercivic or others. I would rather see money spent on systems that if they have software, it is the people'software.

I would rather not see the vendors get a dime more.

New machines like ES&S DS 200 had a high undervote rate in Florida counties.
There is something wrong with that system.

Voting vendors are turning optical scanners into a combo DRE/optical scanner machine.

States like mine, NC - have the early version of Automark that cannot be adapted so that the paper ballot does not have to be handled. NC would have to replace Automarks in all counties, and we might also have to replace all existing optical scan machines. We have specific requirements for voting vendors in our states that would likely lead to all new voting machines when we just purchased them in 2006.

Our state would also be vulnerable to gutting of our current paper ballot law, for standards for voting vendors and their CEOS.

So my state may have something to lose - and voting vendors much to gain, if the Holt bill passes.

So before you attack people for not supporting the bill, listen to their reasons.

And vice verse.

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  -Your feelings or comments on the Holt Bill WillYourVoteBCounted  Jul-18-09 03:21 PM   #0 
  - Holt Bill?  FLAprogressive   Jul-18-09 03:28 PM   #1 
  - Holt is supporter of electronic and privatization, generally, so always an imperfect champion.  MarjorieG   Jul-18-09 03:29 PM   #2 
  - wasnt there an amendment added to allow levers?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-18-09 08:43 PM   #5 
     - I think we're still trying. When Ellen Theisen, Teresa Hommel and Debra Bowen, etc, met a convention  MarjorieG   Jul-19-09 01:01 AM   #6 
  - The bill is flawed - deeply - but some progress is required...  althecat   Jul-18-09 08:38 PM   #3 
  - clicked on your graphic for scoop  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-18-09 08:42 PM   #4 
  - Holt Bill is GREAT!!  Democracy Cop   Jul-19-09 07:35 PM   #7 
  - Join NYVV. Like you, they are promoting electronic vote counting. n/t  Wilms   Jul-19-09 08:47 PM   #8 
  - I am ambivalent about the Holt Bill, but feel that the levers should be allowed  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-19-09 09:19 PM   #9 
  - Agree: Holt Bill is GREAT.  UnitedVoters   Jul-20-09 08:08 PM   #10 
     - Whoa! ALLCAPS!  Wilms   Jul-20-09 09:31 PM   #11 
        - Yes indeed. HOLT BILL IS GREAT.  UnitedVoters   Jul-20-09 10:39 PM   #12 
           - "this silly non-issue"  Wilms   Jul-20-09 10:58 PM   #13 
           - There ARE pros and cons  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-21-09 12:56 AM   #14 
              - IMHO the pros FAR outweigh the cons -- the Holt bill is great.  UnitedVoters   Jul-21-09 08:49 AM   #15 
                 - I'm sure you mean well, but the "perhaps" is  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-21-09 11:54 AM   #16 
                 - My use of the word "perhaps" is absolutely correct because I don't actually know for sure....  UnitedVoters   Jul-21-09 06:06 PM   #18 
                    - nope, sorry  OnTheOtherHand   Jul-22-09 07:55 AM   #22 
                    - So if I don't swallow everything a former for-profit vendor says its ad hominem? Sorry NOPE to you.  UnitedVoters   Jul-23-09 10:50 AM   #23 
                       - welcome to DU "United Voters" and please do tell us more...  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-09 11:26 AM   #24 
                       - and "UnitedVoters", please tell about your activism  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-09 11:27 AM   #25 
                       - it's pretty simple, actually  OnTheOtherHand   Jul-24-09 07:26 AM   #28 
                    - applying YOUR logic directly to YOUR intent PERHAPS  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-09 11:34 AM   #26 
                 - the new ES&S DS 200 IS a combo DRE and optical scanner  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-21-09 11:57 AM   #17 
                    - HR2894 will force it to be used as a non-tabulating ballot marker only...  UnitedVoters   Jul-21-09 06:09 PM   #19 
                       - See this post.  Wilms   Jul-21-09 10:11 PM   #21 
  - It won't pass this session. nt  Bill Bored   Jul-21-09 08:21 PM   #20 
  - For the record, I am ambivalent  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-09 07:47 PM   #27 

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