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Reply #9: I am ambivalent about the Holt Bill, but feel that the levers should be allowed [View All]

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I am ambivalent about the Holt Bill, but feel that the levers should be allowed
Now back in 2003 and 2004 I would not have said that, but the more we learn about the
currently available voting systems, I believe that New York is far better off
with what they have.

True, with levers, there is no permanent paper ballot record of the vote.

But with levers, there is a sharply limited risk to ballots -
each machine counts 999 votes period, so problems or fraud is limited to the number of votes
that can be affected.

Today's machines, even optical scan - still are using software to do the count,
and with optical scan, the paper isn't counted that often.
Some paper may be counted in audits, and some or all paper ballots - could - be counted
IF the state has good recount laws.

But the fact is, we really need to work hard to get accurate counts on election day,
because often the problems aren't detected, the fraud isn't caught, the recount isn't requested,
and the outcome is announced on election night.

Its incredibly hard to overturn an improper election results, ESPECIALLY if it is fraudulent,
as in the case of a coup.

*Also it is important to acknowledge that New York has a very low undervote rate for president,
which is a positive sign and also something that DREs cannot boast.
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  -Your feelings or comments on the Holt Bill WillYourVoteBCounted  Jul-18-09 03:21 PM   #0 
  - Holt Bill?  FLAprogressive   Jul-18-09 03:28 PM   #1 
  - Holt is supporter of electronic and privatization, generally, so always an imperfect champion.  MarjorieG   Jul-18-09 03:29 PM   #2 
  - wasnt there an amendment added to allow levers?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-18-09 08:43 PM   #5 
     - I think we're still trying. When Ellen Theisen, Teresa Hommel and Debra Bowen, etc, met a convention  MarjorieG   Jul-19-09 01:01 AM   #6 
  - The bill is flawed - deeply - but some progress is required...  althecat   Jul-18-09 08:38 PM   #3 
  - clicked on your graphic for scoop  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-18-09 08:42 PM   #4 
  - Holt Bill is GREAT!!  Democracy Cop   Jul-19-09 07:35 PM   #7 
  - Join NYVV. Like you, they are promoting electronic vote counting. n/t  Wilms   Jul-19-09 08:47 PM   #8 
  - I am ambivalent about the Holt Bill, but feel that the levers should be allowed  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-19-09 09:19 PM   #9 
  - Agree: Holt Bill is GREAT.  UnitedVoters   Jul-20-09 08:08 PM   #10 
     - Whoa! ALLCAPS!  Wilms   Jul-20-09 09:31 PM   #11 
        - Yes indeed. HOLT BILL IS GREAT.  UnitedVoters   Jul-20-09 10:39 PM   #12 
           - "this silly non-issue"  Wilms   Jul-20-09 10:58 PM   #13 
           - There ARE pros and cons  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-21-09 12:56 AM   #14 
              - IMHO the pros FAR outweigh the cons -- the Holt bill is great.  UnitedVoters   Jul-21-09 08:49 AM   #15 
                 - I'm sure you mean well, but the "perhaps" is  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-21-09 11:54 AM   #16 
                 - My use of the word "perhaps" is absolutely correct because I don't actually know for sure....  UnitedVoters   Jul-21-09 06:06 PM   #18 
                    - nope, sorry  OnTheOtherHand   Jul-22-09 07:55 AM   #22 
                    - So if I don't swallow everything a former for-profit vendor says its ad hominem? Sorry NOPE to you.  UnitedVoters   Jul-23-09 10:50 AM   #23 
                       - welcome to DU "United Voters" and please do tell us more...  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-09 11:26 AM   #24 
                       - and "UnitedVoters", please tell about your activism  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-09 11:27 AM   #25 
                       - it's pretty simple, actually  OnTheOtherHand   Jul-24-09 07:26 AM   #28 
                    - applying YOUR logic directly to YOUR intent PERHAPS  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-09 11:34 AM   #26 
                 - the new ES&S DS 200 IS a combo DRE and optical scanner  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-21-09 11:57 AM   #17 
                    - HR2894 will force it to be used as a non-tabulating ballot marker only...  UnitedVoters   Jul-21-09 06:09 PM   #19 
                       - See this post.  Wilms   Jul-21-09 10:11 PM   #21 
  - It won't pass this session. nt  Bill Bored   Jul-21-09 08:21 PM   #20 
  - For the record, I am ambivalent  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-09 07:47 PM   #27 

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