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Reply #69: Enough of this. I grow tired of being called a liar, and doing so is beneath you Wilms. [View All]

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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-13-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
69. Enough of this. I grow tired of being called a liar, and doing so is beneath you Wilms.
Edited on Mon Apr-13-09 05:08 PM by demodonkey

Saying that I posted something "perhaps disingenuously" is basically calling me "perhaps" a liar, and this is not called for. All the ballots that were meaningfully counted in that election were paper, including, yes, the absentees which the margin of victory finally came down to, making them mean something for a change. But having lived all my life in this Commonwealth, I stand firm in my belief that things would have been handled differently in that county if there was not a paper ballot for almost every vote. If the bulk of the votes in that election were on DRE or even levers, I think things would have gone differently. JMO.

FYI, pre-HAVA, the status quo was that out of 67 PA counties only 24 were on lever machines. There was another 23 on central count optical scan, one on precinct-count optical scan, 11 counties on punch cards, and 8 already on various DREs, with a few areas of hand counted paper ballots thrown in. My organization(s) and I made many of the same arguments back in 2005 and very early 2006 that NY state is making now for keeping the levers, in our lever counties. We were well aware that HAVA did not require replacing them, nor did it require replacing punch cards. But once the EAC issued their statement on levers and the DOJ was suing PA to get 'HAVA compliant' systems, and we got a PA Supreme Court decision upholding that they had to be replaced, we saw the writing on the wall and knew that levers (and punch cards, in many counties) were going down no matter what we did. We then switched to doing our best to advocating for counties to choose optical scan over DRE and have been doing so ever since. If you feel that is somehow hurting another state, too bad.

I don't know which judge you are talking about (I have testified many times, in many trials) but my position has been and still remains that I definitely prefer levers over DREs, and human readable and verifiable paper ballots (preferably optically scanned with meaningful audit) over levers. From the day I became a pollworker I recognized that levers are not verifiable in that I was always worried in the back of my mind what would happen if one of the odometers in the back of the lever machine got stuck during an election. A voter would never know, and proving a "stuck" election result would be difficult even in an investigated recount. Still levers are preferable to DREs.

FYI, our Secretary of the Commonwealth's name is Pedro CORTS. There is no "z" in it.

And now, peace out Wilms. As I said, enough. I will be supporting the Holt bill if and when it is introduced. Further discourse between us on this thread is only going to be keeping me (and maybe even you) from doing productive work.

There are more important things to fight these days than each other.

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