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Reply #56: To be fair . . . it's a program which offers duplicity/trickery . . . [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. To be fair . . . it's a program which offers duplicity/trickery . . .
but most interpertations are that it pushes states/counties to electronic

voting computers which are the basis of the steals over decades --
****************************************************************************




Criticisms
Criticisms of HAVA center around mandated changes in voting technology, voter identification, confusion and voter intimidation, misappropriation of federal funds, and unnecessarily complicating the voter registration process.


Criticisms of electronic voting machines
Critics of HAVA argue it imprudently attempts to solve one problem of punch-card voting machine errors seen in Florida in the 2000 election, by replacing them with electronic voting machines. Some believe that HAVA may represent an effort to help large electronic voting systems vendors such as Premier Election Solutions (formerly Diebold Election Systems), Election Systems & Software, and Sequoia Voting Systems make millions of dollars throughout the country in selling electronic voting devices.

A Pennsylvania court ruled in April 2007 that voting machine certification was the result of what Judge Rochelle Friedman called "deficient examination criteria" which "do not approximate those that are customary in the information technology industry for systems that require a high level of security". The court ruled that voters have a right under the commonwealth's constitution to reliable and secure voting systems and can challenge the use of electronic voting machines "that provide no way for Electors to know whether their votes will be recognized" through voter verification or independent audit.<18>

Complicating voter registration
Critics also state that the bill contains some elements that complicate the voter registration process. For example, Section 303(a)(5) of HAVA provides that no state may accept or process a voter registration form for an election for Federal office unless the application includes "in the case of an applicant who has been issued a current and valid driver's license, the applicant's driver's license number". Critics contend that it costs the country millions of dollars just to process the same basic registration form and confirm that they meet the HAVA requirements.<2[br />

Voting machines
HAVA requires states use funding to replace punch card voting systems or lever voting systems with new systems in accordance with HAVA's voting system standards.



Computerized statewide voter registration
HAVA requires states develop a single, uniform, official, centralized, interactive computerized statewide voter registration list defined, maintained, and administered at the State level. (Previously, voter registration lists were maintained by local officials.) HAVA requires the statewide list be coordinated with other agency databases within the state. HAVA also requires regular "maintenance" of the statewide list including removing ineligible voters and duplicate names are eliminated in accordance with the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA).

Voting machines
HAVA requires states use funding to replace punch card voting systems or lever voting systems with new systems in accordance with HAVA's voting system standards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_America_Vote_Act

The Urgent Need For State Voting Machines Legislation
104k - Adobe PDF - View as html
way possible, that the State Legislature pass voting machine and other HAVA legislation now. ... voting machines displaying elections on multiple electronic ...
www.nyc.gov/html/emtf/downloads/pdf/report_031805.pdf

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  -New Yorkers should be alert - new threat to Lever Machines WillYourVoteBCounted  Jan-05-09 12:00 AM   #0 
  - More: IRV is a well intended reform, but doesn't meet its promise.  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:15 AM   #1 
  - Other nations are using IRV . . . let's look at their actual experiences . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:19 AM   #3 
     - I live in the foreign country of North Carolina, and IRV is threatening our verified voting law  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:22 AM   #4 
     - This is an old problem, having nothing to do with IRV --  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:29 AM   #7 
        - How a 2007 IRV experiment violated several of NC election laws  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 01:09 AM   #13 
           - But WHO violated your laws ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:00 PM   #24 
     - Scotland traded hand counted paper ballots for STV (a form of IRV)  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:24 AM   #5 
        - IRV has nothing to do with computer counting ....  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:31 AM   #8 
           - did you read the OP? IRV incentivizes computerized voting machines  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 01:02 AM   #12 
           - That's an OPINION ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:04 PM   #25 
              - Thats an opinion of an internationally reknowned Computer Scientist  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:36 PM   #44 
                 - It's still OPINION . . . and you're on ignore . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:49 PM   #55 
                    - in your case, the phrase "epic fail" comes to mind  OnTheOtherHand   Jan-06-09 07:44 PM   #63 
           - IRV just happens to incentivize computerized counting  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 01:10 AM   #14 
              - Voters were confused by "butterfly ballot" ...that's why they were banned ....  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:10 PM   #26 
                 - Electionline: "Ranked-Choice Voting and Flawed Ballots Tax San Francisco's Election"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:14 PM   #40 
                 - San Francisco Grand Jury Report: Instant runoff not understood by voters and poll workers  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:17 PM   #41 
                    - Are you repeating this . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:47 PM   #54 
  - IRV can be paper and pen . . . doesn't have to be computer . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:17 AM   #2 
  - Yes it could be but it requires software to count it - hence bye bye lever machines  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:26 AM   #6 
  - The problem is the dishonesty of HAVA not IRV . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:31 AM   #9 
     - HAVA doesn't require voting machines  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:59 AM   #11 
        - Did I read ALL of HAVA ... No ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 02:43 PM   #22 
           - where did you read that HAVA required "voting machines"?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 05:26 PM   #30 
              - That's right.  Wilms   Jan-05-09 09:27 PM   #47 
                 - To be fair . . . it's a program which offers duplicity/trickery . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-06-09 12:03 AM   #56 
                    - Fine. I'll agree. "most interpertations are that it pushes states/counties to electronic voting..."  Wilms   Jan-06-09 12:49 AM   #60 
                       - HAVA didn't require ditching punch cards either  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-06-09 06:14 PM   #61 
                          - From what I recall in recent reading ...  defendandprotect   Jan-06-09 06:59 PM   #62 
                             - Read again. HAVA did not ban punch cards  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-07-09 11:11 AM   #64 
                             - please provide a citation for what you read  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-07-09 11:13 AM   #65 
  - please tell us how IRV is counted in the United States and Scotland  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 01:20 AM   #16 
     - Please explain ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:14 PM   #27 
        - do you know anything about IRV, like how it is counted?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 05:27 PM   #31 
           - How about ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 06:27 PM   #33 
              - IRV makes it easier to rig the election or just flat out miscount it  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 06:48 PM   #36 
                 - Baloney . .. that's Dem/Repug propaganda cause they don't want change ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:42 PM   #52 
  - What makes you want to cling to lever machines?  frazzled   Jan-05-09 12:33 AM   #10 
  - Learn why NY wants to cling to lever machines:  Bill Bored   Jan-05-09 03:28 AM   #18 
  - Agreed.... lever machines may be harder to fix ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:21 PM   #28 
     - Don't take HAVA money, except to provide accessibility.  Bill Bored   Jan-05-09 07:23 PM   #43 
        - Re your last paragraph . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:46 PM   #53 
  - like clinging to their guns and religion?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 11:45 AM   #19 
  - I ask again: what is wrong with a good (computerized) optical scanning of paper ballots?  frazzled   Jan-05-09 01:11 AM   #15 
  - NY is way ahead of the game!  Bill Bored   Jan-05-09 03:15 AM   #17 
     - I am sorry ...  frazzled   Jan-05-09 12:10 PM   #20 
        - please answer these questions so you can prove optical scan is better than levers:  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:33 PM   #21 
        - You can have PAPER with any system ....  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:22 PM   #29 
        - A possibility to recount by hand? When and where?  Bill Bored   Jan-05-09 07:06 PM   #38 
        - "the possibility to recount by hand"  Wilms   Jan-05-09 09:33 PM   #48 
  - I think we had best be "warned" that resistance to IRV comes mainly ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 02:53 PM   #23 
  - Dr. Rebecca Mercuri: IRV leads to "potential gaming" of the ballot  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 05:30 PM   #32 
  - I think we all have open minds about elections ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 06:36 PM   #34 
     - Libertarian Reform Caucus: "Anyone for a Bullet in the Foot? Instant Runoff!"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:04 PM   #37 
     - Why does IRV lead to 2-party domination?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:40 PM   #45 
        - Without doubt, the 2-party monopoly wants to keep lock on elections . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:40 PM   #51 
           - without a doubt, IRV entrenches the 2-party monopoly  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-06-09 12:24 AM   #59 
  - Australian Politics: "promotes a two-party system...."  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:19 PM   #42 
  - For those not familiar with the decades of computer steals ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 06:39 PM   #35 
     - "IRV.. not summable.... makes it more susceptible to tampering"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:07 PM   #39 
     - That's Dem/Repug propaganda -- they sure don't want CHOICE ....!!!  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:36 PM   #49 
        - and you support IRV which incentivizes computerized voting  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-06-09 12:23 AM   #58 
     - "The complexity of IRV ...provides increased opportunities for wholesale fraud or malfunction"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:42 PM   #46 
        - The opponents of IRV are Dems and Repugs who don't want voters . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:38 PM   #50 
           - Attack the messenger because you have no facts  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-06-09 12:23 AM   #57 
 

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