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Reply #20: I am sorry ... [View All]

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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I am sorry ...
but yours is the uninformed judgment. Mechanical lever machines are not the answer.

Paper is absolutely necessary to a system with integrity. Lever machines do not provide that. I am fully aware of all the problems with computerized counting: at least with opti-scan there is the possibility to recount by hand. You are clearly not aware of all the vote-stealing possible with lever machines.

Maybe you should read up.
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  -New Yorkers should be alert - new threat to Lever Machines WillYourVoteBCounted  Jan-05-09 12:00 AM   #0 
  - More: IRV is a well intended reform, but doesn't meet its promise.  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:15 AM   #1 
  - Other nations are using IRV . . . let's look at their actual experiences . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:19 AM   #3 
     - I live in the foreign country of North Carolina, and IRV is threatening our verified voting law  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:22 AM   #4 
     - This is an old problem, having nothing to do with IRV --  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:29 AM   #7 
        - How a 2007 IRV experiment violated several of NC election laws  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 01:09 AM   #13 
           - But WHO violated your laws ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:00 PM   #24 
     - Scotland traded hand counted paper ballots for STV (a form of IRV)  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:24 AM   #5 
        - IRV has nothing to do with computer counting ....  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:31 AM   #8 
           - did you read the OP? IRV incentivizes computerized voting machines  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 01:02 AM   #12 
           - That's an OPINION ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:04 PM   #25 
              - Thats an opinion of an internationally reknowned Computer Scientist  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:36 PM   #44 
                 - It's still OPINION . . . and you're on ignore . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:49 PM   #55 
                    - in your case, the phrase "epic fail" comes to mind  OnTheOtherHand   Jan-06-09 07:44 PM   #63 
           - IRV just happens to incentivize computerized counting  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 01:10 AM   #14 
              - Voters were confused by "butterfly ballot" ...that's why they were banned ....  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:10 PM   #26 
                 - Electionline: "Ranked-Choice Voting and Flawed Ballots Tax San Francisco's Election"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:14 PM   #40 
                 - San Francisco Grand Jury Report: Instant runoff not understood by voters and poll workers  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:17 PM   #41 
                    - Are you repeating this . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:47 PM   #54 
  - IRV can be paper and pen . . . doesn't have to be computer . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:17 AM   #2 
  - Yes it could be but it requires software to count it - hence bye bye lever machines  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:26 AM   #6 
  - The problem is the dishonesty of HAVA not IRV . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 12:31 AM   #9 
     - HAVA doesn't require voting machines  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:59 AM   #11 
        - Did I read ALL of HAVA ... No ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 02:43 PM   #22 
           - where did you read that HAVA required "voting machines"?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 05:26 PM   #30 
              - That's right.  Wilms   Jan-05-09 09:27 PM   #47 
                 - To be fair . . . it's a program which offers duplicity/trickery . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-06-09 12:03 AM   #56 
                    - Fine. I'll agree. "most interpertations are that it pushes states/counties to electronic voting..."  Wilms   Jan-06-09 12:49 AM   #60 
                       - HAVA didn't require ditching punch cards either  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-06-09 06:14 PM   #61 
                          - From what I recall in recent reading ...  defendandprotect   Jan-06-09 06:59 PM   #62 
                             - Read again. HAVA did not ban punch cards  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-07-09 11:11 AM   #64 
                             - please provide a citation for what you read  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-07-09 11:13 AM   #65 
  - please tell us how IRV is counted in the United States and Scotland  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 01:20 AM   #16 
     - Please explain ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:14 PM   #27 
        - do you know anything about IRV, like how it is counted?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 05:27 PM   #31 
           - How about ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 06:27 PM   #33 
              - IRV makes it easier to rig the election or just flat out miscount it  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 06:48 PM   #36 
                 - Baloney . .. that's Dem/Repug propaganda cause they don't want change ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:42 PM   #52 
  - What makes you want to cling to lever machines?  frazzled   Jan-05-09 12:33 AM   #10 
  - Learn why NY wants to cling to lever machines:  Bill Bored   Jan-05-09 03:28 AM   #18 
  - Agreed.... lever machines may be harder to fix ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:21 PM   #28 
     - Don't take HAVA money, except to provide accessibility.  Bill Bored   Jan-05-09 07:23 PM   #43 
        - Re your last paragraph . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:46 PM   #53 
  - like clinging to their guns and religion?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 11:45 AM   #19 
  - I ask again: what is wrong with a good (computerized) optical scanning of paper ballots?  frazzled   Jan-05-09 01:11 AM   #15 
  - NY is way ahead of the game!  Bill Bored   Jan-05-09 03:15 AM   #17 
     - I am sorry ...  frazzled   Jan-05-09 12:10 PM   #20 
        - please answer these questions so you can prove optical scan is better than levers:  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 12:33 PM   #21 
        - You can have PAPER with any system ....  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 03:22 PM   #29 
        - A possibility to recount by hand? When and where?  Bill Bored   Jan-05-09 07:06 PM   #38 
        - "the possibility to recount by hand"  Wilms   Jan-05-09 09:33 PM   #48 
  - I think we had best be "warned" that resistance to IRV comes mainly ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 02:53 PM   #23 
  - Dr. Rebecca Mercuri: IRV leads to "potential gaming" of the ballot  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 05:30 PM   #32 
  - I think we all have open minds about elections ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 06:36 PM   #34 
     - Libertarian Reform Caucus: "Anyone for a Bullet in the Foot? Instant Runoff!"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:04 PM   #37 
     - Why does IRV lead to 2-party domination?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:40 PM   #45 
        - Without doubt, the 2-party monopoly wants to keep lock on elections . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:40 PM   #51 
           - without a doubt, IRV entrenches the 2-party monopoly  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-06-09 12:24 AM   #59 
  - Australian Politics: "promotes a two-party system...."  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:19 PM   #42 
  - For those not familiar with the decades of computer steals ...  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 06:39 PM   #35 
     - "IRV.. not summable.... makes it more susceptible to tampering"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:07 PM   #39 
     - That's Dem/Repug propaganda -- they sure don't want CHOICE ....!!!  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:36 PM   #49 
        - and you support IRV which incentivizes computerized voting  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-06-09 12:23 AM   #58 
     - "The complexity of IRV ...provides increased opportunities for wholesale fraud or malfunction"  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-05-09 07:42 PM   #46 
        - The opponents of IRV are Dems and Repugs who don't want voters . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-05-09 11:38 PM   #50 
           - Attack the messenger because you have no facts  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-06-09 12:23 AM   #57 
 

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