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Reply #22: You should "decide on the trigger" BEFORE the audit is started! [View All]

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. You should "decide on the trigger" BEFORE the audit is started!
Here's the deal:

If the canvass report finds things like missing precinct tallies, or tallies that were copied incorrectly to the server or some other central reporting system, then this has to be corrected.

If the audit finds discrepancies within the precincts, this should also be corrected and the audit may have to be expanded.

HAVA requires a paper record to be used for audits/recounts. It's NOT the paper ballot or VVPAT. It's the "poll tape" or results report. If the audit compares hand counted tallies to the tallies on those tapes, it can be done as soon as the tapes are available -- even on election night if warm bodies are available. If the poll tapes and the hand counts agree, there is no trigger or escalation of the audit, but the election-night poll-tape tallies must still be compared to the officially reported results for ALL the precincts. That's the canvass (or recanvass).

I think as long as the audit compares hand count tallies to poll tape tallies, it doesn't matter when it takes place, assuming the chain of custody is secure.

Similarly, as long as the central tallies are compared to the poll tape tallies, it doesn't matter when that canvass takes place.

I think the order of preference or control for these tallies should always be:
1. Hand count
2. Poll tape tally
3. Central tally

Any discrepancies between 2 and 3 should use 2.
Any discrepancies between 2 and 1 should use 1.
Any discrepancies between 3 and 1 should use 1 (this can happen if the audit corrects a poll tape tally).

Now, it would be preferable if CERTIFICATION did not take place until after both the audit AND the canvass were completed, but that's another issue and it also depends on when candidates can ask for full recounts if the audit doesn't trigger them.

How does that sound?
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  -Big Presidential Vote Count (Ballot Definition File) Error Found and Fixed in New Mexico Wilms  Oct-05-08 03:57 PM   #0 
  - democrats need to KILL electronic voting once and for all nt  msongs   Oct-05-08 04:03 PM   #1 
  - K&R nt  quiet.american   Oct-05-08 04:25 PM   #2 
  - Why is it always Democrat votes that get dumped?  liberalmuse   Oct-05-08 04:31 PM   #3 
  - Why? Divine intervention, of course.  Jackpine Radical   Oct-05-08 04:40 PM   #5 
  - because they promote straight ticket voting - big time  WillYourVoteBCounted   Oct-06-08 12:28 AM   #23 
  - We had TWO YEARS to fix this mess. And what did we do?  cui bono   Oct-05-08 04:37 PM   #4 
  - WE?  garybeck   Oct-05-08 05:08 PM   #7 
  - Yeah, that's what I meant.  cui bono   Oct-05-08 06:55 PM   #14 
  - this mess IS a FIX, and everytime we try to repair it, those with access will FIX things again  diva77   Oct-06-08 08:45 PM   #30 
  - Those ovals have to go.  Festivito   Oct-05-08 04:54 PM   #6 
  - Repeat after me...  GuvWurld   Oct-05-08 05:08 PM   #8 
  - hey bro i got a question  garybeck   Oct-05-08 10:44 PM   #20 
     - I'm not certain, but  GuvWurld   Oct-06-08 01:44 AM   #25 
     - here's what's in the California elections code regarding audits  diva77   Oct-06-08 08:28 PM   #29 
     - turns out the former LA County Registrar, Conny McCormack was NOT selecting precincts randomly  diva77   Oct-06-08 08:24 PM   #28 
  - Are there audits in NM?  garybeck   Oct-05-08 05:10 PM   #9 
  - presidential on 2% of machines, I think  OnTheOtherHand   Oct-05-08 05:18 PM   #10 
     - Looking at their audits, I'm not sure they would catch the problem  garybeck   Oct-05-08 06:13 PM   #13 
     - I agree it's not ideal!  OnTheOtherHand   Oct-05-08 07:29 PM   #15 
        - doing the audit before the canvass report  garybeck   Oct-05-08 07:36 PM   #16 
           - it's like that game show: "is that your (voting system's) final answer?"  OnTheOtherHand   Oct-05-08 08:13 PM   #17 
           - certification of election  garybeck   Oct-05-08 10:10 PM   #19 
              - we burned hours haggling over that wording  OnTheOtherHand   Oct-06-08 04:34 AM   #26 
           - You should "decide on the trigger" BEFORE the audit is started!  Bill Bored   Oct-06-08 12:15 AM   #22 
              - That's exactly what I'm saying  garybeck   Oct-06-08 12:57 AM   #24 
              - I agree. Consider changing the recount request deadline to a later one.  Bill Bored   Oct-06-08 09:33 PM   #32 
                 - i disagree with you and agree with the brennan report  garybeck   Oct-07-08 03:10 AM   #33 
              - And what about chain of custody issues?  Wilms   Oct-06-08 10:58 AM   #27 
                 - What about 'em?  Bill Bored   Oct-06-08 09:21 PM   #31 
                 - well since you ask  garybeck   Oct-07-08 03:17 AM   #34 
                    - The "probably more" in her response suggests she has some reason.  Wilms   Oct-07-08 11:07 AM   #35 
                       - it's worth asking  garybeck   Oct-07-08 11:58 AM   #36 
     - The link to the text of the law is broken. I'd like to see it before passing judgement. nt  Bill Bored   Oct-05-08 11:55 PM   #21 
  - Psssst, these maqchines dont count very well. The evidence is overwhelming  FogerRox   Oct-05-08 05:22 PM   #11 
  - blinking  mbergen   Oct-05-08 05:43 PM   #12 
  - K&R.  bleever   Oct-05-08 08:44 PM   #18 

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