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Reply #62: Actually, where do you get off putting words in my mouth? [View All]

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Actually, where do you get off putting words in my mouth?
I'm well enough aware of the problems in PA, as I am aware of those in other states. I did not diminish the importance of PA. Contrary, I pointed out that other states, including ones with paper are no less vulnerable. If you disagree with that you can state your point of view on the matter.

Despite the foul language, it's not clear to me that everyone "knows that you need to audit". It's quite clear that the idea of a statistical, risk-based audit, is not well understood. And why would you accuse me of being a broken record relative to the need for proper audits if it's OK for posters to complain about DREs and Pennsylvania's plight? If you disagree with any of that you can state your point of view on the matter.

My ego doesn't need your pumping, especially because I had little to do with Holt's bills demise. It killed itself three times. We agree that the forum is not listened to by Congress. It's apparent that Congress didn't really listen to anyone in the movement. So what's your point apart from an attempted insult?

As a self-described lurker, you've had adequate opportunity to get a sense of my position on it, but from your assumption as to my inclinations toward HCPB, its apparent you've missed the mark. Of course relying on Kster responding to me on a thread to gauge where I'm at might not be the best analytical approach. A lot of folks are at each other's throats over Holt so you may as well come after mine. Personally, I found the supporters and detractors overstating reality. Perhaps there are those on either side angry with me for that. So be it. I'd rather be accused of something I actually said than what one imagines.

As far as my "lecturing" of Demodonkey, feel free to correct any and all mistakes that I may have made. In my replies to her I pointed out what I thought was inaccurate. So if I got it wrong, feel free to offer a correction. But try to cut out the name calling. And get off the idea I have no right to comment, as such a position asinine on it's face. And try not to assume that a McCain win in November is the fault of the members of this forum. That's as over the top as a number of your posts and a waste of member's time to read it.

If all Demodonkey did was point out that PA going down would be a bad thing, she's also wasting time. There are plenty of states and groups of states in that boat. You'll just have to pardon the wider scope of my concern. You may think PA is underplayed, but it may well be that the states reliability for Democratic presidential candidates during the last four cycles has had that effect.

Demodonkeys focus on PA, reliance on the possibility of the Fed saving it, and her tendency to personalize the struggle I happen to find a bit unnecessary. Too Much Personal Information. I think she can feel free to not let us know about personal finances, or her mother's and brother's health because it really has nothing to do with the topic. And after hearing TMPI time and again, and few inaccurate and overblown comments I feel as though it is being inappropriately used to sway people. She's not the only one who does that, but many others work very hard without pulling that kind of trip.

Now, we do agree that this forum has gone down quite a bit over the years. And I'm sorry that you view me as part of it's decline. Don't forget that a plethora of "lists" have been started, draining activity here. But I would hate to think that I stood in the way of productive discussion. I can imagine those promoting exit polls as a means for securing elections would agree with you, however. And a blathering HCPB fan might also. Not to mention those who come through here periodically with the latest unifying theory of election theft in OH. They come. They go. You know that as well as I. I was among those who preferred the idea of the "Voting Systems" forum. But as you'll recall there were a lot of emotions on display as people argued to name the forum about OH2004. It effectively became the exit poll forum for some time, and earned a reputation of tinfoilhattery as a result. It hasn't recovered.

No United, you're just plain angry with me. That was clear when you first started posting here in response to my criticism of the position Bo Lipari and some of the NYVV board members were pushing. And that's totally within your rights. But I think we'd both feel better if the distaste was based on facts.

So then, why don't you, point for point, argue with my positions instead of showing up only to tell me what a bad guy you think I am? As I recall, I and a few others tried having a substantive conversation with you and you decided to not respond.

You willing?

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  -Transparent Ballot Box, for 500 - 800 Paper Ballots, with Deposit Trap and Counter kster  Aug-16-08 01:53 PM   #0 
  - The FIRST !! K &R  galloglas   Aug-16-08 07:09 PM   #1 
  - Thanks galloglas, I guess Common Sense in counting ballots  kster   Aug-17-08 10:46 PM   #3 
  - kick..nt  kster   Aug-17-08 06:31 PM   #2 
  - Made and used in a country where voters don't vote for individual candidates  eridani   Aug-18-08 08:37 PM   #4 
  - Why are these people able to count complicated ballots by hand  kster   Aug-18-08 08:57 PM   #5 
  - Their "gift" is a trivially small number of ballots to count  eridani   Aug-18-08 09:22 PM   #6 
     - The video shows complicated paper ballots being hand counted, NO?  kster   Aug-18-08 09:45 PM   #7 
     - They are bloody well not in 3 congressional districts and 17 state legislative districts  eridani   Aug-18-08 11:35 PM   #8 
     - I don't think the number of ballots is the prpblem.  Bill Bored   Aug-24-08 12:10 AM   #46 
  - Gotcher back here-- I'm a poll worker, too, and...  TreasonousBastard   Aug-19-08 02:33 PM   #9 
     - I laugh at the clowns who defend any  kster   Aug-19-08 05:12 PM   #10 
     - Break out the vomit buckets, here we go again.  demodonkey   Aug-19-08 05:19 PM   #11 
     - yup, what you said n/t  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-19-08 05:29 PM   #12 
     - I had no doubt that you would agree with that  kster   Aug-20-08 10:45 PM   #23 
        - at some point...  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-21-08 05:16 AM   #24 
        - You spin it any way you want Sir/Madam but, as I said  kster   Aug-21-08 11:52 PM   #26 
           - ?!  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-22-08 05:34 AM   #32 
        - So, whose National Guard were you planning to use to make mail voters  eridani   Aug-22-08 03:55 AM   #29 
     - as the world turns  BeFree   Aug-19-08 05:40 PM   #13 
     - A Picture a Video and a little Common Sense and we  kster   Aug-19-08 10:33 PM   #17 
     - There's a few broken records.  Wilms   Aug-19-08 09:45 PM   #16 
        - DREs are NOT "losing ground" in Pennsylvania to ANYTHING.  demodonkey   Aug-21-08 11:46 PM   #25 
           - You're yelling. Calming down could help.  Wilms   Aug-22-08 10:31 AM   #34 
              - Yep, what ever your flavor is  kster   Aug-22-08 10:06 PM   #36 
              - Yelling? You want yelling? Read this.  UnitedVoters   Aug-25-08 01:22 PM   #57 
                 - oh, jeepers, could you dial this down?  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-25-08 01:42 PM   #58 
                 - No I could not dial this down. I'm sick of this.  UnitedVoters   Aug-25-08 02:56 PM   #59 
                    - hey, I was here too  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-25-08 03:35 PM   #61 
                 - Actually, where do you get off putting words in my mouth?  Wilms   Aug-25-08 09:44 PM   #62 
                 - You're damn straight. People like you make me angry as hell.  UnitedVoters   Aug-26-08 09:25 AM   #69 
                    - So you are only willing to waste my time telling me what a bad guy you think I am. OK.  Wilms   Aug-26-08 10:36 AM   #70 
                    - The problem with you is...  UnitedVoters   Aug-26-08 12:20 PM   #71 
                       - So if I don't organize a strategy here on DU I can't comment and shouldn't post news stories?  Wilms   Aug-27-08 02:25 AM   #74 
                    - I had a brother, United. HE IS DEAD. Shame on Wilms for bringing this up in this thread.  demodonkey   Aug-30-08 11:27 AM   #79 
                       - What you are doing now is what you've done before. I think it's inappropriate.  Wilms   Aug-30-08 12:33 PM   #80 
                       - I am so sorry for your loss, Demodonkey.  UnitedVoters   Sep-01-08 01:52 PM   #84 
                          - That seems a bit ad hominem.  Wilms   Sep-01-08 07:14 PM   #85 
                             - You, of course, NEVER post anything that is ad hominem... Riighht.  UnitedVoters   Sep-02-08 09:14 AM   #87 
                                - be the change you want to see...  OnTheOtherHand   Sep-02-08 10:00 AM   #90 
                                   - OTOH...  UnitedVoters   Sep-02-08 01:17 PM   #92 
                                      - well, I'm sorry to hear that  OnTheOtherHand   Sep-02-08 02:21 PM   #93 
                 - Its WHERE AND WHEN the audit is done that matters  kster   Aug-25-08 11:24 PM   #65 
     - I suppose you want to do away with...  TreasonousBastard   Aug-19-08 07:16 PM   #14 
     - ATMs are fully secured by the customers and the bank  kster   Aug-19-08 08:58 PM   #15 
     - I still haven't heard about your trip to the BoE and...  TreasonousBastard   Aug-19-08 11:33 PM   #18 
     - Common Sense with no diversions......  kster   Aug-20-08 12:02 AM   #19 
     - If, however, you were in need of 100 $1 dollar bills,...  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-20-08 03:31 AM   #20 
        - Why does the bank always want the teller to do a 100% hand count of  kster   Aug-20-08 02:47 PM   #21 
           - Zing. n/t  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-20-08 04:14 PM   #22 
     - There is no way, even in theory, that voting machines could ever be like ATMs  eridani   Aug-22-08 04:04 AM   #30 
     - Votes are NOT financial transactions. As a poll worker, you should know the difference. nt  Bill Bored   Aug-24-08 12:34 AM   #47 
     - Neighborhood people are no more trustworthy than downtowners or machines  eridani   Aug-22-08 03:54 AM   #28 
        - Correct, the second count must be done AT THE POLLING PLACE  kster   Aug-22-08 10:03 AM   #33 
           - That would be optimum. However there is a slight problem.  eridani   Aug-23-08 03:15 AM   #37 
              - That's a different issue. Those votes are inherently insecure to begin with.  Bill Bored   Aug-24-08 12:51 AM   #49 
                 - Security problems can be dealt with by better oversight.  eridani   Aug-25-08 02:03 AM   #53 
                    - Duplicators huh? No wonder folks want to vote absentee -- they get to vote twice! nt  Bill Bored   Aug-25-08 02:58 AM   #54 
                       - No, the original is stamped ORIGINAL in red and it and the original and the stamped  eridani   Aug-25-08 03:19 AM   #55 
                          - No that's not how levers work. You can change the vote as many times as you want.  Bill Bored   Aug-25-08 10:07 PM   #63 
                             - I don't get you, you are defending a machine that is paperless  kster   Aug-25-08 11:42 PM   #66 
                             - How do you cancel your vote after you've pulled the lever? n/t  eridani   Aug-26-08 02:26 AM   #67 
     - Electronic voting is bloody well NOT the way to go  eridani   Aug-22-08 03:52 AM   #27 
     - Not so fast.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-23-08 10:20 AM   #39 
        - A bill is either there or it isn't there  eridani   Aug-23-08 08:06 PM   #41 
           - Agree, but...  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-23-08 09:26 PM   #43 
              - Good thing that the folks who print bills are way better at their jobs than  eridani   Aug-23-08 09:56 PM   #45 
     - exactly the problem: "they seem to do the job needed."  emlev   Aug-26-08 11:41 PM   #72 
  - What would help put an end to insanity is for everyone who bloviated  eridani   Aug-22-08 04:10 AM   #31 
  - You don't have to be a pollworker to know that  kster   Aug-22-08 03:26 PM   #35 
     - As long as there are large numbers of people who mail in their ballots--  eridani   Aug-23-08 03:17 AM   #38 
        - It Must be done that way "can't" is not an option  kster   Aug-23-08 08:32 PM   #42 
           - So, do you actually have any real achievements as an election integrity activist?  eridani   Aug-23-08 09:52 PM   #44 
              - OK, LET ME DUMB THIS DOWN FOR YOU, a six or seven year old  kster   Aug-24-08 12:47 AM   #48 
                 - Now, suipposing the mail-in ballots were never in a polling place to begin with? n/t  eridani   Aug-24-08 02:20 AM   #50 
                    - We are discussing when and where ballots must be counted,  kster   Aug-24-08 09:29 PM   #51 
                       - You and what army will force absentee voters to become poll voters? n/t  eridani   Aug-25-08 01:53 AM   #52 
                          - Did you read my post? nt  kster   Aug-25-08 11:05 AM   #56 
                             - Yes. Answer the question. n/t  eridani   Aug-25-08 03:02 PM   #60 
                                - Put your ballot in  kster   Aug-25-08 11:07 PM   #64 
                                   - People prefer mail in voting by 70% in my state  eridani   Aug-26-08 02:29 AM   #68 
                                      - Tell them the truth, and you won't have to force anyone  kster   Aug-27-08 12:01 AM   #73 
                                         - And they'll tell you to go straight to hell  eridani   Aug-27-08 10:21 AM   #75 
                                            - They would tell me to go to hell for telling them the truth??  kster   Aug-28-08 12:30 AM   #76 
                                               - Telling them the truth accomplishes nothing in the real world  eridani   Aug-28-08 04:07 AM   #77 
                                                  - OK, I'll let THE MAN explain it to you  kster   Aug-29-08 11:52 PM   #78 
                                                     - You didn't read your own reference apparently  eridani   Aug-30-08 08:34 PM   #81 
                                                     - Fabulous, where will your hand count audit be done?  kster   Aug-31-08 01:40 AM   #82 
                                                     - As a pollworker, I approve the following process  eridani   Aug-31-08 02:20 AM   #83 
                                                     - OR WE CAN USE OUR COMMON SENSE  kster   Sep-01-08 10:41 PM   #86 
                                                     - Dupe.  UnitedVoters   Sep-02-08 09:27 AM   #88 
                                                     - HAND COUNT THE GODDAMN PAPER BALLOTS HAND COUNT THE GODDAMN PAPER BALLOTS  UnitedVoters   Sep-02-08 09:28 AM   #89 
                                                     - very true n/t  OnTheOtherHand   Sep-02-08 10:01 AM   #91 
                                                     - Common Sense, HAND COUNT THE GODDAMN PAPER BALLOTS, BEFORE THE BALLOTS LEAVE THE POLLING PLACE!!  kster   Sep-04-08 11:05 PM   #94 
  - GREAT. I always wanted to see how others vote!  L. Coyote   Aug-23-08 02:55 PM   #40 
  - kick...nt  kster   Sep-04-08 11:40 PM   #95 
  - KICK TO ADD PHOTO  kster   Sep-05-08 12:04 PM   #96 
  - "This product is no longer available" n/t  JimDandy   Sep-18-08 05:10 AM   #97 
     - Thats alright I'd rather have it made in the USA anyway  kster   Sep-18-08 11:00 AM   #98 

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