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Reply #11: I'm not sure that we have disagreement. [View All]

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I'm not sure that we have disagreement.
"one really big thing going against Hand Counts are the Torch and Pitchfork types advocating it." I could not agree more.

"Some of the poll worker shortage is attributed to the introduction of electronic apparatus". True. Nevertheless, I'm sure it can be agreed that pollworker shortages exist and additional workers would need to be recruited for hand counting. Perhaps it can be done, perhaps not. We don't know at the present time. Conscription may be an option. If so, it should be discussed, rather than relying on claims by some of, "My neighbors and I will count the ballots!"

I think Dave Berman in Humboldt County is one of the real heroes along with his fellow community activists and organizations, who are walking-the-walk, implementing it on the ground and honestly dealing with the challenging issues of convincing officials and recruiting community members to count.

I think hand counting will have to be incrementally adopted by localities. Once practical logistics are proven successful, hopefully more and more communities, counties and states will be able to build upon these successes.

Posting an actual ballot from a U.S. election is no more "biased" than equating single race ballots from Italy or Canada to ours which have no similarity.

Whether hand-counted or opscanned, there certainly must be proper hand audits.

Again, I agree that the "torch & pitchfork" advocates generally merely wave pom-poms to no effect, distract from legitimate discussion of logistical implementation and set back any chance of bringing officials on-board and working with them toward the goal by accusing them of being "all a bunch of lying criminal fuckers".




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  -Italian paper electoral procedures (Hand Counted Paper Elections) kster  Feb-17-08 10:50 PM   #0 
  - Yep, and they know how to life right too. K*R  autorank   Feb-17-08 10:52 PM   #1 
  - I seem to recall the last election didn't go all that smoothly over in Italy.  MADem   Feb-17-08 10:57 PM   #2 
  - Italy: electronic vote-counting experiment during 2006 general election  kster   Feb-17-08 11:12 PM   #3 
  - One race vs. 50.  troubleinwinter   Feb-18-08 12:27 AM   #4 
  - The old complicated ballot routine  kster   Feb-18-08 12:37 AM   #5 
  - Stupidity = the same idiotic rant that LA County = New Hampshire  eridani   Jan-30-09 03:29 AM   #25 
     - Joe Biden knows how to make it possible to Hand Count the Paper Ballots  kster   Jan-31-09 03:33 AM   #26 
        - Tell us all about how you got your county to switch to HCPB n/t  eridani   Jan-31-09 05:34 AM   #27 
  - Your post seems extremely biased. That's a given election in one jurisdiction.  Wilms   Feb-18-08 09:16 AM   #7 
     - The ballot shown was 2006 General Election  troubleinwinter   Feb-18-08 12:03 PM   #8 
        - How many jusisdictions have a "long and complicated ballot"? How many don't?  Wilms   Feb-18-08 02:19 PM   #10 
           - I'm not sure that we have disagreement.  troubleinwinter   Feb-18-08 07:09 PM   #11 
           - I agree.  Wilms   Feb-18-08 09:24 PM   #12 
           - I'd suggest a different method for auditing hand counts out of general principle  eridani   Dec-27-08 07:07 AM   #23 
           - NC has around 24 contests on the GE ballot, New Hampshire only 12  WillYourVoteBCounted   Feb-02-09 07:27 PM   #30 
  - Oh my God, bring some of those people over here to give us some advice. K&R!  Stevepol   Feb-18-08 08:14 AM   #6 
  - Hopeful news here; REMEMBER, contempt w/o investigation is highly intellectually dishonest  Land Shark   Feb-18-08 01:18 PM   #9 
  - Thanks for this post, kster.  Wilms   Feb-19-08 10:15 PM   #13 
  - Thanks, Al Gore said the same thing  kster   Feb-20-08 02:38 AM   #14 
     - Very nice. But Al was talking about FL2000.  Wilms   Feb-20-08 09:13 AM   #15 
        - GOP candidate Albert Howard on Hand Counted Paper Ballots, February 16, 2008  kster   Feb-20-08 12:23 PM   #16 
           - Re-read what I wrote.  Wilms   Feb-20-08 06:16 PM   #17 
           - This thread was made to show that  kster   Feb-20-08 11:08 PM   #18 
              - Of course I realize that.  Wilms   Feb-20-08 11:30 PM   #19 
                 - Did you ever have an itch in the middle of your back,  kster   Feb-21-08 12:04 AM   #20 
                    - Son of a bitch I have a Wilms  kster   Feb-22-08 02:31 AM   #21 
           - kick.nt  kster   Jan-24-09 10:44 AM   #24 
  - kick.nt  kster   Dec-20-08 12:17 AM   #22 
  - They make some nice ass shoes and suits too  WillYourVoteBCounted   Feb-02-09 01:54 AM   #28 
     - They have more sense than us when it comes to counting ballots,  kster   Feb-02-09 03:26 AM   #29 
        - the big question KSTER is did YOU get hand counted paper ballots in your town?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Feb-02-09 07:28 PM   #31 
           - I'm not making the connection  kster   Feb-02-09 11:17 PM   #32 
              - I just wondered if you had worked to get hand counted paper ballots  WillYourVoteBCounted   Feb-03-09 12:09 AM   #33 
 

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