You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #17: We owe Bo Lipari, NYVV and activists across the state a big debt of gratitude [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
bernesebernese Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. We owe Bo Lipari, NYVV and activists across the state a big debt of gratitude
Everyone needs to deal with their own situation in their own context. Opscans are not more vulnerable than DREs, if that is your point.

NY law mandates the use of DREs or optical scanners. It was a 3-year battle just to get optical scanners into our law, because as written originally it required DREs. Now our county commissioners must choose new equipment from a list provided by our State Board.

NYVV has worked for 5 years to prevent DREs from being mandated by our state legislature and selected our individual counties, and we appear to be on the road to optical scanners but we will not convert to paper ballots until 2009, after the November 2008 election. There is plenty time for DRE forces to make a comeback.

Suddenly there is an outcry including anonymous personal insults on Democratic Underground targeted against Bo Lipari, our state leader, criticizing New Yorkers for Verified Voting and the future use of voter-marked paper ballots and scanners in New York.

I do not see personal attacks on Judge Sharpe, or Mr. Heffernan the attorney for the US Dept of Justice, both of whom raked NY over the coals in their effort to force us to replace our lever machines with electronic equipment. Andi Novick's brief put the idea of handcounted paper ballots before the court, and the judge ignored it except that he did sneer at the amicus briefs.

I do not see personal attacks criticizing federal legislators who passed HAVA in 2002, and who refuse to rescind or amend it, or the many federal legislators who have submitted legislation that would make it worse.

I do not see personal attacks on the public officials across this country who defend the use of paperless DREs, or Doug Lewis of The Election Center who opposes audits.

I do not see insults for the reporters who consistently misrepresents HAVA requirements, or individuals like Jim Dickson who have also misrepresented not only the law but the functionality of the equipment being sold to comply with HAVA.

I do not see insults for state legislators, governors, and election officials in states with DREs and no voter-marked paper ballots at all.

If optical scanners are the devil, would people please attend to your own devils.

If anyone succeeds in converting their own state to handcounted paper ballots, they can come to New York and tell us how they did it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
  -Why doesn't Bo Lipari get a job selling Optical Scan? Wilms  Jan-21-08 04:10 PM   #0 
  - WTF are you talking about? New York...  TreasonousBastard   Jan-21-08 04:51 PM   #1 
  - "...they're great-- easy to use and error/fraud free."  Wilms   Jan-21-08 05:22 PM   #2 
     - To our county BoE it is very clear that...  TreasonousBastard   Jan-21-08 05:50 PM   #3 
     - So what scanner, if any, do you have in mind?  Wilms   Jan-21-08 05:57 PM   #4 
        - I don't have any in mind because...  TreasonousBastard   Jan-21-08 06:07 PM   #5 
           - DRE's are not off the table.  Wilms   Jan-21-08 07:30 PM   #6 
              - I wouldn't be surprised if a few places...  TreasonousBastard   Jan-21-08 08:25 PM   #7 
     - levers verses HCPB verses optical scan  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-27-08 01:11 AM   #12 
        - Links please.  Wilms   Jan-27-08 10:05 AM   #13 
        - Here's a "higher cost" story.  Wilms   Jan-27-08 02:21 PM   #15 
        - Smoke em while you got em, the vote count scam is over  kster   Mar-29-08 03:08 AM   #44 
  - Well, at least he's not pushing LHS and Diebold and calling it "the Accuvote"  Bill Bored   Jan-22-08 01:03 AM   #8 
  - I've found out that's an edited version not including it.  Wilms   Jan-26-08 08:31 PM   #9 
     - He's a tireless advocate against DREs. That's not a bad thing.  Bill Bored   Jan-26-08 11:13 PM   #10 
  - Why?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-27-08 01:06 AM   #11 
  - As I've said before...  Wilms   Jan-27-08 10:07 AM   #14 
  - Opscans use electronic ballots too (they image the paper and count THAT IMAGE)  Land Shark   Jan-27-08 02:57 PM   #16 
  - We owe Bo Lipari, NYVV and activists across the state a big debt of gratitude  bernesebernese   Jan-28-08 02:34 PM   #17 
  - oh, they've been insulted too...  OnTheOtherHand   Jan-28-08 04:40 PM   #18 
  - Largely what OTOH said.  Wilms   Jan-28-08 10:32 PM   #19 
     - the OP makes a personal attack on Bo  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-28-08 10:38 PM   #20 
     - Obviously, I disagree.  Wilms   Jan-28-08 10:41 PM   #21 
        - DU - the Anti Activists and The Election Reform Forum  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-28-08 10:53 PM   #22 
        - What? It's OK as long as it's an activist who YOU think is headed in a wrong direction?  Wilms   Jan-28-08 11:17 PM   #23 
        - It's all relative.  btmlndfrmr   Jan-28-08 11:19 PM   #24 
        - proof?  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jan-29-08 01:31 PM   #30 
           - The jury's still out. See post #29. nt  Bill Bored   Jan-29-08 09:32 PM   #31 
           - You're listening right past me.  Wilms   Jan-29-08 11:45 PM   #32 
     - well, you know...  OnTheOtherHand   Jan-29-08 05:13 AM   #25 
        - No. It isn't pleasant at all.  Wilms   Jan-29-08 09:59 AM   #26 
           - The reason the Liberty DRE was NOT certified is that the machine is NOT ACCESSIBLE enough  Bill Bored   Jan-29-08 12:12 PM   #27 
           - eh  OnTheOtherHand   Jan-29-08 12:12 PM   #28 
              - NY election law requires cut-and-drop VVPATs. They are just as auditiable  Bill Bored   Jan-29-08 12:55 PM   #29 
              - whoa  OnTheOtherHand   Jan-30-08 07:23 AM   #35 
                 - The point is that somehow election officials have the idea that a 3% audit  Bill Bored   Jan-30-08 10:38 PM   #37 
              - Feh.  Wilms   Jan-29-08 11:59 PM   #33 
                 - I think there is more to it  OnTheOtherHand   Jan-30-08 05:49 AM   #34 
                    - Did I say the BoE was/is united?  Wilms   Jan-30-08 09:18 PM   #36 
                    - The Election Commissioners Assn. of the State of NY wanted to keep levers  Bill Bored   Jan-30-08 10:43 PM   #38 
  - Kick  Wilms   Mar-27-08 09:10 PM   #39 
  - DRE and Optiscans are equally evil? Not true  Einsteinia   Mar-28-08 06:15 PM   #40 
  - But no one is using scanners the way you suggest Einsteinia.  Bill Bored   Mar-29-08 12:52 AM   #41 
     - "and not a lot of paper ballots either" walk softly Bill  kster   Mar-29-08 01:38 AM   #42 
     - I think once those scanners are in place, with all those paper ballots,  Bill Bored   Mar-29-08 03:00 AM   #43 
        - I think you are crazy to support  kster   Mar-29-08 03:28 AM   #45 
           - So we are going to spend millions on scanners so we can HAND COUNT? Get real!  Bill Bored   Mar-29-08 03:32 PM   #46 
              - For now, YES, let the crooks feel  kster   Mar-30-08 02:35 AM   #47 
     - True but NOT for long --Sign here:  Einsteinia   Mar-31-08 05:41 PM   #48 
        - Forced vote by mail? Where's that besides Oregon?  Bill Bored   Apr-02-08 11:52 PM   #49 
  - Optical Scan = Electronic Vote Counting n/t  Wilms   Apr-19-08 02:43 PM   #50 
  - It's nice that Liberty Election System is bailing on efforts to sell DREs to NYers  Wilms   Apr-24-08 10:21 PM   #51 
  - Optical scanners are the same as a "get away car"  kster   Apr-24-08 11:16 PM   #52 
     - If you insist on going off topic, I'd appreciated you not posting on my threads.  Wilms   Apr-26-08 06:05 PM   #53 
  - Still Lying: Bo Lipari's Deceit on Voice of the Voters  Wilms   Jul-03-08 08:47 AM   #54 
  - Bo's Response to Defamatory Comments  bolipari   Jul-05-08 02:59 PM   #55 
     - Perhaps I should have posted the clarification here, as well as the original thread.  Wilms   Jul-05-08 03:46 PM   #56 
  - Bo Lpari insults election advocates wary of his computerized vote counting contraptions.  Wilms   Apr-11-10 09:51 AM   #57 
     - well  WillYourVoteBCounted   Apr-11-10 05:05 PM   #58 
        - You can make those arguments but they are as likely to be untrue.  Wilms   Apr-11-10 06:30 PM   #59 
           - really?  OnTheOtherHand   Apr-12-10 08:06 AM   #60 
              - Oh I am absolutely sure it depends "who decides what counts as studying the issue closely".  Wilms   Apr-12-10 10:45 AM   #61 
                 - for what it is worth  WillYourVoteBCounted   Apr-12-10 10:58 AM   #62 
                    - If the debate was centered on FACTS, that would be the case.  Wilms   Apr-12-10 11:07 AM   #63 
                    - This post might provide some insight into the situation in NY:  Bill Bored   Apr-13-10 01:59 PM   #64 
 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC