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Reply #61: We have to be very careful - DU/Skinner message related. In support of Lala. [View All]

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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
61. We have to be very careful - DU/Skinner message related. In support of Lala.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 09:19 AM by higher class
Last night I saw the message Skinner posted yesterday moving this kind of talk out of GD to Election Reform. I was upset. All evening and the first thing this morning I was troubled by these two sentences from his message.

"If there were any credible evidence to support the allegation of fraud or voting machine malfunction in New Hampshire, then I would be more than willing to let the discussion continue in our two General Discussion forums. But at this point no such evidence has been produced."

It is essential that phrasing be carefully considered and distinctions are made.

Fraud - and - Voting machine malfunction:

Fraud when combined as Voter Fraud is exactly the phrase that Republicans are using and used in all their manipulations involving the U.S. Attorney scandal where Voter Fraud was the issue in the firing. What they wanted the U.S. Attorneys to do was investigate and charge certain people of voting fraudulently. They flipped the problem of voting integrity and were trying to plant the concept that crime was carried out by voters requiring the 'government' to go after them and that they, the Republicans, and DOJ were being diligent about 'the problem' by doing so.

Malfunction. To me, that is a breakdown - a happenstance.

What has been discussed here on DU for years has nothing to do with everyday voters committing a crime or breakdowns.

What we have been discussing on DU for years is is Intentional Manipulation and Serious Irregularities and Anomalies involving TOTALS and RATIOS.

The problem also includes totals and ratios in relation to exit polling. And the strange firing of the exit polling company by the five networks who relied on the company for years and which had a reputation of accuracy (making it easier for the networks to obfuscate and create their own justifications for the anomalies.

It may have happened again. There is a suspicion. This is not a tin foil hat situation. This needs to be looked at because it has happened before and because it is Diebold. If it needs to be looked at, it needs to be discussed and reported on.


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  -About the NH votes ....(Important) lala_rawraw  Jan-10-08 10:38 AM   #0 
  - Thanks for taking a reasonable look at this n/t  rox63   Jan-10-08 10:48 AM   #1 
  - sure, i am just trying  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 03:55 PM   #18 
     - thank you, well stated!  Voice for Peace   Jan-11-08 09:51 AM   #65 
  - K&R  helderheid   Jan-10-08 10:49 AM   #2 
  - Thanks LaLa, funny how some folks worked hard at making ER folks look foolish  mod mom   Jan-10-08 10:50 AM   #3 
  - i think emotions can get in the way sometimes...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 11:00 AM   #8 
  - Troubling that some care MORE about their candidate than saving democracy  eowyn_of_rohan   Jan-11-08 06:30 AM   #55 
  - Wonder why anybody would be against verifying elections?  creeksneakers2   Jan-11-08 08:31 AM   #59 
     - You've forgotten that exit polls are "adjusted" by  AikidoSoul   Jan-11-08 09:30 AM   #63 
        - The original exit polls showed a close race  creeksneakers2   Jan-11-08 10:53 AM   #66 
           - The trouble with computerized counting or tabulation is that there IS NO EVIDENCE  AikidoSoul   Jan-12-08 06:08 PM   #74 
  - Well said. It is incredible how people react when this topic comes  truckin   Jan-10-08 10:53 AM   #4 
  - Thank you. A voice of reason. Rage against the machines, not a candidate.  deminks   Jan-10-08 10:53 AM   #5 
  - "This conversation should be had, not censored..."  foo_bar   Jan-10-08 10:54 AM   #6 
  - excellent... i had not seen that...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 11:01 AM   #9 
  - Thank you Lala -- Now, when the problem is between 2 Dems, is the time to  IndyOp   Jan-10-08 10:57 AM   #7 
  - we can also just get drunk...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 11:02 AM   #10 
  - Will you ever accept the fact that voter fraud, alone, is the only issue here?  DCKit   Jan-10-08 11:47 AM   #11 
  - I do think that so long as Diebold is used...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 12:19 PM   #12 
  - Unfortunately ES&S, Triad and the rest are suspect as well. They're all owned  diane in sf   Jan-10-08 07:09 PM   #23 
  - It's election fraud. n/t  sfexpat2000   Jan-10-08 06:56 PM   #21 
  - Hear, hear!  kma3346   Jan-10-08 01:16 PM   #13 
  - Can anyone tell me why votes kept backtracking?  Digit   Jan-10-08 01:21 PM   #14 
  - That looks like update lag in their server farm  unc70   Jan-10-08 02:46 PM   #16 
  - I'm wondering that too...  stillcool47   Jan-11-08 12:17 PM   #71 
  - kicking for Andy! n/t  vickiss   Jan-10-08 01:54 PM   #15 
  - god i miss him!  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 03:54 PM   #17 
     - He was an amazing guy!  vickiss   Jan-10-08 09:13 PM   #30 
  - Thanks, and a K&R.  Kurovski   Jan-10-08 06:52 PM   #19 
  - Excellent L  althecat   Jan-10-08 06:54 PM   #20 
  - It's occurred to me one goal might be to discredit the polls  starroute   Jan-10-08 07:07 PM   #22 
  - This is my #1 reason for wanting a recount. I think the same thing. We have to challenge this!  rudy23   Jan-10-08 08:32 PM   #26 
  - Bingo! We have a winner!  Usrename   Jan-10-08 10:56 PM   #43 
  - Exit polls - Obama +1, Actual Results Clinton +3 - they were off by 4%  HughMoran   Jan-11-08 01:01 AM   #44 
  - That's been the goal since 2000  Spiffarino   Jan-11-08 01:21 AM   #46 
  - Or, perhaps say, Mark J Penn?  lumberjack_jeff   Jan-11-08 01:35 AM   #47 
  - He HAS been rather vocal about this particular result, hasn't he?  frogcycle   Jan-11-08 05:40 AM   #53 
  - Thanks for that Larissa!  AntiFascist   Jan-10-08 07:15 PM   #24 
  - Thanks LaLa !  doublethink   Jan-10-08 07:17 PM   #25 
  - Thank-you. This needs to be said loudly.  robinlynne   Jan-10-08 08:43 PM   #27 
  - I'm sorry. I've seen no hord of Obama supporters flogging this.  sfexpat2000   Jan-10-08 09:09 PM   #28 
  - the ignore list...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 10:15 PM   #33 
     - My ignore list is really more like a time out list.  sfexpat2000   Jan-10-08 10:21 PM   #35 
        - good response,  crikkett   Jan-11-08 11:37 AM   #69 
  - You are too kind  Samantha   Jan-10-08 09:13 PM   #29 
  - someone noted up thread...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 10:13 PM   #32 
  - Let us recall the fraud of 1972.  JackRiddler   Jan-10-08 09:48 PM   #31 
  - well said... as always n/t  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 10:16 PM   #34 
  - I retract my earlier 'sour grapes'.  Warren Stupidity   Jan-10-08 10:27 PM   #36 
  - Good on you. Welcome to the only reasonable course of action.  Bonobo   Jan-10-08 10:29 PM   #37 
  - You, sire, are a gentelman n/t  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 10:31 PM   #38 
  - I don't agree with those facts.  creeksneakers2   Jan-11-08 09:03 AM   #60 
     - I'm fine with getting to the bottom of it.  Warren Stupidity   Jan-11-08 12:10 PM   #70 
        - I'm happy to see audits  creeksneakers2   Jan-11-08 01:15 PM   #72 
  - Thanks Larisa (and important indeed!)  BradBlog   Jan-10-08 10:32 PM   #39 
  - To both of you.  btmlndfrmr   Jan-10-08 10:50 PM   #42 
  - K & R  Tuesday_Morning   Jan-10-08 10:34 PM   #40 
  - Agree, it's all about transparency  Muddy Waters Guitar   Jan-10-08 10:36 PM   #41 
  - Thank you lala.  balantz   Jan-11-08 01:13 AM   #45 
  - kucinich is going for a recount!!!  orleans   Jan-11-08 01:52 AM   #48 
  - excellent post . . . as it stands right now, we don't really know who won NH . . .  OneBlueSky   Jan-11-08 02:18 AM   #49 
  - k+r  Progs Rock   Jan-11-08 04:09 AM   #50 
  - Thank you. Amazing how soon people forget the stolen election of 2004 or 2000 for that matter.  TheGoldenRule   Jan-11-08 05:02 AM   #51 
  - Hear hear!  sss1977   Jan-11-08 05:37 AM   #52 
  - Great post! The machines have been my main concern  caseycoon   Jan-11-08 05:57 AM   #54 
  - It's worth taking a closer look.  ecdab   Jan-11-08 07:03 AM   #56 
  - Thank you for your hard work, and your calm rationality. I was a "hair on fire" poster  chimpymustgo   Jan-11-08 07:22 AM   #57 
  - Very Well Said lala_rawraw  fascisthunter   Jan-11-08 08:30 AM   #58 
  - We have to be very careful - DU/Skinner message related. In support of Lala.  higher class   Jan-11-08 09:15 AM   #61 
  - fully in support of you, lala  Lerkfish   Jan-11-08 09:23 AM   #62 
  - :D  lala_rawraw   Jan-11-08 11:11 AM   #67 
  - Well done LaLa  AikidoSoul   Jan-11-08 09:32 AM   #64 
  - My contention was the appearance of DU questioning BradBlog's credibility...  newburgh   Jan-11-08 11:17 AM   #68 
  - I have a couple questions. to lala or brad or whoever would know...  Whisp   Jan-11-08 02:11 PM   #73 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-09-08 09:19 PM   #75 
 

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