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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:38 AM
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About the NH votes ....(Important)
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Guys, I have not endorsed or discussed a candidate publicly. So this is not me whining about "my candidate" losing or something of that sort. I have yet to publicly make any statement about any candidate on the Democratic side and I would urge you to try and prove otherwise and not just take my word for it.

So when I say I have serious concerns about the difference in returns vs. polling, I am not doing so in support for any candidate. We here have long argued against the use of Diebold machines and with good reason. We here have long demanded that no matter who the winner of any election is, that elections simply be fair. Yet faced with the ultimate test of having to ask that question when it goes against our personal interests, we have not acted consistent with our position.

There are real and serious issues in NH and the strange results delivered by machines we have long argued are not acceptable. Yet, these very same Diebold machines are now being argued by one side as delivering a solid win and people who ask questions are being attacked with the "sour grapes" line. Does that attack not sound familiar when we asked those same questions about the 2004 election? If we take this route, are we not becoming the very thing we have so long worked to stop?

There are a few people, I won't name names, who have been exceptionally psychotic about their own candidate and there has been very serious infighting because of that. But step away from your own interests and your own chosen candidate for a moment, and simply look at the issue. Ask yourself, does it matter that we have fair elections? If the answer is yes, then your own support of a particular candidate becomes secondary.

As I have said, I have not made any comments endorsing any candidate or any comments to detract from the qualities of any candidates. My interest is in fair and honest elections. I do not believe that what we witnessed in NH is fair and honest. I don't know why the results are the way that they are and I don't believe Mrs. Clinton is responsible for the problem (it could very well be interests other than those relating to the candidates, who are simply hoping to pit their candidates of choice in the general election). I don't know, and thus far, no answer has been satisfactory, for me anyway. I want to know what happened. Don't you? And if you don't, is it because your candidate won? If that is the answer, then how are you different from the Republicans who in 2004 attacked all of us as simply crying over our loss?

We have to ask these questions, no matter who wins. We have to be able to trust the results. So I ask you please, in good faith - that you will not go crazy and attack one another - to examine what Brad Friedman has put together. Examine his findings as a person interested in fair elections, not as an Obama supporter or Clinton supporter. This conversation should be had, not censored and it should be had as rational, intelligent adults interested in democracy. With respect to Skinner, knowing his position, I have to ask that we have an honest discussion here and learn what we can. Please review Brad Friedman's writing on this topic. http://www.bradblog.com/?cat=122

I do believe Andy watches us, let's make him proud.
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  -About the NH votes ....(Important) lala_rawraw  Jan-10-08 10:38 AM   #0 
  - Thanks for taking a reasonable look at this n/t  rox63   Jan-10-08 10:48 AM   #1 
  - sure, i am just trying  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 03:55 PM   #18 
     - thank you, well stated!  Voice for Peace   Jan-11-08 09:51 AM   #65 
  - K&R  helderheid   Jan-10-08 10:49 AM   #2 
  - Thanks LaLa, funny how some folks worked hard at making ER folks look foolish  mod mom   Jan-10-08 10:50 AM   #3 
  - i think emotions can get in the way sometimes...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 11:00 AM   #8 
  - Troubling that some care MORE about their candidate than saving democracy  eowyn_of_rohan   Jan-11-08 06:30 AM   #55 
  - Wonder why anybody would be against verifying elections?  creeksneakers2   Jan-11-08 08:31 AM   #59 
     - You've forgotten that exit polls are "adjusted" by  AikidoSoul   Jan-11-08 09:30 AM   #63 
        - The original exit polls showed a close race  creeksneakers2   Jan-11-08 10:53 AM   #66 
           - The trouble with computerized counting or tabulation is that there IS NO EVIDENCE  AikidoSoul   Jan-12-08 06:08 PM   #74 
  - Well said. It is incredible how people react when this topic comes  truckin   Jan-10-08 10:53 AM   #4 
  - Thank you. A voice of reason. Rage against the machines, not a candidate.  deminks   Jan-10-08 10:53 AM   #5 
  - "This conversation should be had, not censored..."  foo_bar   Jan-10-08 10:54 AM   #6 
  - excellent... i had not seen that...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 11:01 AM   #9 
  - Thank you Lala -- Now, when the problem is between 2 Dems, is the time to  IndyOp   Jan-10-08 10:57 AM   #7 
  - we can also just get drunk...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 11:02 AM   #10 
  - Will you ever accept the fact that voter fraud, alone, is the only issue here?  DCKit   Jan-10-08 11:47 AM   #11 
  - I do think that so long as Diebold is used...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 12:19 PM   #12 
  - Unfortunately ES&S, Triad and the rest are suspect as well. They're all owned  diane in sf   Jan-10-08 07:09 PM   #23 
  - It's election fraud. n/t  sfexpat2000   Jan-10-08 06:56 PM   #21 
  - Hear, hear!  kma3346   Jan-10-08 01:16 PM   #13 
  - Can anyone tell me why votes kept backtracking?  Digit   Jan-10-08 01:21 PM   #14 
  - That looks like update lag in their server farm  unc70   Jan-10-08 02:46 PM   #16 
  - I'm wondering that too...  stillcool47   Jan-11-08 12:17 PM   #71 
  - kicking for Andy! n/t  vickiss   Jan-10-08 01:54 PM   #15 
  - god i miss him!  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 03:54 PM   #17 
     - He was an amazing guy!  vickiss   Jan-10-08 09:13 PM   #30 
  - Thanks, and a K&R.  Kurovski   Jan-10-08 06:52 PM   #19 
  - Excellent L  althecat   Jan-10-08 06:54 PM   #20 
  - It's occurred to me one goal might be to discredit the polls  starroute   Jan-10-08 07:07 PM   #22 
  - This is my #1 reason for wanting a recount. I think the same thing. We have to challenge this!  rudy23   Jan-10-08 08:32 PM   #26 
  - Bingo! We have a winner!  Usrename   Jan-10-08 10:56 PM   #43 
  - Exit polls - Obama +1, Actual Results Clinton +3 - they were off by 4%  HughMoran   Jan-11-08 01:01 AM   #44 
  - That's been the goal since 2000  Spiffarino   Jan-11-08 01:21 AM   #46 
  - Or, perhaps say, Mark J Penn?  lumberjack_jeff   Jan-11-08 01:35 AM   #47 
  - He HAS been rather vocal about this particular result, hasn't he?  frogcycle   Jan-11-08 05:40 AM   #53 
  - Thanks for that Larissa!  AntiFascist   Jan-10-08 07:15 PM   #24 
  - Thanks LaLa !  doublethink   Jan-10-08 07:17 PM   #25 
  - Thank-you. This needs to be said loudly.  robinlynne   Jan-10-08 08:43 PM   #27 
  - I'm sorry. I've seen no hord of Obama supporters flogging this.  sfexpat2000   Jan-10-08 09:09 PM   #28 
  - the ignore list...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 10:15 PM   #33 
     - My ignore list is really more like a time out list.  sfexpat2000   Jan-10-08 10:21 PM   #35 
        - good response,  crikkett   Jan-11-08 11:37 AM   #69 
  - You are too kind  Samantha   Jan-10-08 09:13 PM   #29 
  - someone noted up thread...  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 10:13 PM   #32 
  - Let us recall the fraud of 1972.  JackRiddler   Jan-10-08 09:48 PM   #31 
  - well said... as always n/t  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 10:16 PM   #34 
  - I retract my earlier 'sour grapes'.  Warren Stupidity   Jan-10-08 10:27 PM   #36 
  - Good on you. Welcome to the only reasonable course of action.  Bonobo   Jan-10-08 10:29 PM   #37 
  - You, sire, are a gentelman n/t  lala_rawraw   Jan-10-08 10:31 PM   #38 
  - I don't agree with those facts.  creeksneakers2   Jan-11-08 09:03 AM   #60 
     - I'm fine with getting to the bottom of it.  Warren Stupidity   Jan-11-08 12:10 PM   #70 
        - I'm happy to see audits  creeksneakers2   Jan-11-08 01:15 PM   #72 
  - Thanks Larisa (and important indeed!)  BradBlog   Jan-10-08 10:32 PM   #39 
  - To both of you.  btmlndfrmr   Jan-10-08 10:50 PM   #42 
  - K & R  Tuesday_Morning   Jan-10-08 10:34 PM   #40 
  - Agree, it's all about transparency  Muddy Waters Guitar   Jan-10-08 10:36 PM   #41 
  - Thank you lala.  balantz   Jan-11-08 01:13 AM   #45 
  - kucinich is going for a recount!!!  orleans   Jan-11-08 01:52 AM   #48 
  - excellent post . . . as it stands right now, we don't really know who won NH . . .  OneBlueSky   Jan-11-08 02:18 AM   #49 
  - k+r  Progs Rock   Jan-11-08 04:09 AM   #50 
  - Thank you. Amazing how soon people forget the stolen election of 2004 or 2000 for that matter.  TheGoldenRule   Jan-11-08 05:02 AM   #51 
  - Hear hear!  sss1977   Jan-11-08 05:37 AM   #52 
  - Great post! The machines have been my main concern  caseycoon   Jan-11-08 05:57 AM   #54 
  - It's worth taking a closer look.  ecdab   Jan-11-08 07:03 AM   #56 
  - Thank you for your hard work, and your calm rationality. I was a "hair on fire" poster  chimpymustgo   Jan-11-08 07:22 AM   #57 
  - Very Well Said lala_rawraw  fascisthunter   Jan-11-08 08:30 AM   #58 
  - We have to be very careful - DU/Skinner message related. In support of Lala.  higher class   Jan-11-08 09:15 AM   #61 
  - fully in support of you, lala  Lerkfish   Jan-11-08 09:23 AM   #62 
  - :D  lala_rawraw   Jan-11-08 11:11 AM   #67 
  - Well done LaLa  AikidoSoul   Jan-11-08 09:32 AM   #64 
  - My contention was the appearance of DU questioning BradBlog's credibility...  newburgh   Jan-11-08 11:17 AM   #68 
  - I have a couple questions. to lala or brad or whoever would know...  Whisp   Jan-11-08 02:11 PM   #73 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-09-08 09:19 PM   #75 
 

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