You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #35: trust as an end result of an observed process = OK, trust that substitutes [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. trust as an end result of an observed process = OK, trust that substitutes
for observed process = BAD. If one just refuses to believe that one's neighbor would do anything untoward, that's a system set up to facilitate fraud. It seems like you're suggesting trust limited to a feeling that you have at the end of a totally observed transparent process, w hich is fine. But most of the time people use the term "trust" it is a substitute at some level for observation, thinking or analysis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
  -HR550 and Secret Software Code garybeck  Aug-07-06 01:44 AM   #0 
  - This hands vendors big fat lawsuits for constitutional "takings"  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 02:29 AM   #1 
  - Two questions:  Bill Bored   Aug-07-06 03:33 AM   #2 
  - "Why can't we do both?"  Febble   Aug-07-06 09:31 AM   #6 
     - sure, it's possible to do both, the question is one of strategy and  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 12:38 PM   #11 
     - Well, it's back to the metaphor problem....  Febble   Aug-07-06 01:52 PM   #14 
        - the only problem with metaphor is that you don't like them  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 03:07 PM   #18 
           - No, the problem with metaphor  Febble   Aug-07-06 04:43 PM   #24 
              - And isn't litigation being on bended knee to the courts?  Bill Bored   Aug-08-06 12:35 AM   #36 
                 - Sometimes that word is used, but nobody "prays" they DEMAND  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 12:48 AM   #38 
     - we did both in NC, a state law and we had to go to court  WillYourVoteBCounted   Aug-07-06 06:45 PM   #30 
  - But it also mandates  Febble   Aug-07-06 01:55 PM   #15 
     - Exactly  Kelvin Mace   Aug-08-06 12:17 PM   #50 
  - Isn't it interesting that it must be private companies that produce  4MoronicYears   Aug-07-06 05:37 AM   #3 
  - What government do you trust "to keep elections a GOVERNMENT RUN OPERATION  Kip Humphrey   Aug-07-06 06:23 AM   #4 
     - My local jurisdiction has been doing a fine job  Warren Stupidity   Aug-07-06 07:02 AM   #5 
        - it's not about trust, it's about checks and balances  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 12:44 PM   #12 
           - So if elected bodies should not run elections  Febble   Aug-07-06 02:17 PM   #17 
           - Not a very bright answer, Febble (or very bright question)  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 03:11 PM   #19 
              - Well, one of us was being dim, said Rabbit,  Febble   Aug-07-06 04:19 PM   #21 
                 - big brained bear, please pay heed  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 04:37 PM   #22 
                    - Febble, you should start an OP reconciling these two things  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 04:39 PM   #23 
                    - It won't require much length, so here it is:  Febble   Aug-07-06 05:15 PM   #27 
                       - I have no idea  Febble   Aug-08-06 04:05 AM   #41 
                    - Exactly  Febble   Aug-07-06 04:49 PM   #26 
                       - So, in your view, Blackwell has and continues to act on his own?  Kip Humphrey   Aug-07-06 06:32 PM   #29 
                       - Huh?  Febble   Aug-08-06 01:57 AM   #39 
                       - The Congress is also among the class of govt servants  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 12:25 AM   #34 
                          - And that is why  Febble   Aug-08-06 02:14 AM   #40 
                          - False statement by Febble: HR 550 requires "paper ballot"  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:02 PM   #58 
                             - Not false, IMO, and I think this is an important point  Febble   Aug-08-06 02:14 PM   #71 
                                - You are pointing to the critical provision of the audits that's a problem  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 03:42 PM   #75 
                                   - What you are describing is a recount  Febble   Aug-08-06 05:10 PM   #79 
                                   - A partial recount is not unconstitutional under Gore v Bush.  eomer   Aug-09-06 06:41 AM   #83 
                                      - California law currently includes a mandatory hand audit.  eomer   Aug-09-06 08:08 AM   #84 
                          - OMG! election laws are enacted by legislators!  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 08:54 AM   #44 
                             - People often forget, in their respect for the law, this conflict Interest  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:08 PM   #59 
                                - you seem to be changing directions in mid-air  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 01:37 PM   #64 
                                   - what it means is the following:  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:48 PM   #67 
                                      - an audit can't be independent if its scope is defined by statute?  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 02:18 PM   #72 
                                         - They're already convinced: nobody can specify how they themselves  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 03:48 PM   #76 
                                            - because....  Febble   Aug-08-06 05:00 PM   #78 
                                            - sigh  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 05:33 PM   #80 
           - My local jurisdiction is us.  Warren Stupidity   Aug-07-06 06:55 PM   #31 
              - trust as an end result of an observed process = OK, trust that substitutes  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 12:29 AM   #35 
                 - As that asshole reagan said: trust, but verify. nt.  Warren Stupidity   Aug-08-06 06:47 AM   #43 
  - You can't let CROOKS make the rules,  kster   Aug-07-06 09:56 AM   #7 
  - if you only accept the perfect bill, you will never get there  garybeck   Aug-07-06 11:42 AM   #9 
  - Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien  Febble   Aug-07-06 12:28 PM   #10 
  - it's not at all a question of a perfect bill vs a few steps forward  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 12:50 PM   #13 
  - I'm not ignoring what you have said, I just disagree with it  garybeck   Aug-07-06 06:24 PM   #28 
     - Well, thanks for the partial response / The future is right here in CA  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 12:36 AM   #37 
        - you don't find the paper trail useful in CA?  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 09:47 AM   #46 
        - I'm glad you acknowledge the risk here OTOH, that 's big of you  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:26 PM   #61 
           - no, they don't  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 01:56 PM   #68 
              - That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion as to legal matters  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 02:01 PM   #70 
        - in CA, there is a paper trail to recount, in GA, there isn't. Am I wrong?  garybeck   Aug-08-06 10:15 AM   #47 
        - you're missing it. Recounting a stuffed ballot box=stuffed recount too!  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:29 PM   #62 
        - If what you say is true  Kelvin Mace   Aug-08-06 12:24 PM   #53 
           - something I don't know about the NC law  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 12:27 PM   #54 
              - Here you go:  Kelvin Mace   Aug-08-06 12:33 PM   #55 
                 - OK, so in fairness or in caution...  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 12:38 PM   #56 
                    - 550 goes much further than 223  Kelvin Mace   Aug-08-06 12:43 PM   #57 
                    - The time commitment you've made to attempting to discredit me is  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:36 PM   #63 
                    - oh, golly, do you really want to go down this road?  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 01:46 PM   #66 
                       - OK, then in the context of your critique here, your statement that  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:57 PM   #69 
                          - why do you think this is about "praise" and "support"?  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 02:23 PM   #73 
                             - it relates to whether one should respond in debate, or not.  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 03:35 PM   #74 
                                - these questions seem poor  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 04:46 PM   #77 
                    - otoh's first paragraph is basically correct  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:39 PM   #65 
  - Wasting your breath with this crowd, Gary  Kelvin Mace   Aug-08-06 12:22 PM   #52 
  - Rep Conyers cosponsors bill you say was MADE BY CROOKS  WillYourVoteBCounted   Aug-07-06 02:05 PM   #16 
  - I used to support it, but once you read it, and  kster   Aug-07-06 04:08 PM   #20 
  - lots of people "of integrity" support misguided things  Land Shark   Aug-07-06 04:43 PM   #25 
  - how is Rush Holt a crook? n/t  garybeck   Aug-07-06 08:25 PM   #32 
  - Garybeck, These people are not ON YOUR SIDE  kster   Aug-07-06 11:19 PM   #33 
     - who are "These people"  garybeck   Aug-08-06 10:17 AM   #48 
        - I have an autographed copy of Conyers book  kster   Aug-08-06 06:46 PM   #81 
  - Excuse me?  Kelvin Mace   Aug-08-06 12:21 PM   #51 
     - Your excused........nt  kster   Aug-08-06 09:28 PM   #82 
  - Totally agree garybeck.  Stevepol   Aug-07-06 10:09 AM   #8 
  - garybeck, I support HR550 because of the VVPT and audit...  eomer   Aug-08-06 06:21 AM   #42 
     - you meant "I'm NOT so sure about the open source part," right? n/t  OnTheOtherHand   Aug-08-06 08:58 AM   #45 
     - Yes, thanks. NOT so sure.  eomer   Aug-08-06 11:11 AM   #49 
     - Linus Torvalds, another famous Finnlander somewhat relevant to elections  Land Shark   Aug-08-06 01:19 PM   #60 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC