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Reply #75: You don't know what we have gone through in Maryland [View All]

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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. You don't know what we have gone through in Maryland
The Governor who is a (R) Ehrlich indicated that the Diebold machines should not be used
The State House which is Democratic voted to stop Diebold in 2006 in Maryland
The Maryland State Senate voted to continue with Diebold
and our Secretary of State Linda LaMone LOOOOVES Diebold


we are getting nowhere fast, it's does no good to point to all that high sounding rhetoric that
is HAVA, I do not see the Feds Testing and/or certifying these electronic machines, the state of maryland picked Diebold, and then we found out it was not even certified until the general election in 2004. We need help, what do we do, we have the machines, we have spent at least 23 million on them and we need to figure out what to do. I am nervous that I will once again not have the ability to make my vote count in 2006.
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  -Hand-counted ballots mean loss of under/over votes. Kelvin Mace  Jul-22-06 12:49 PM   #0 
  - well, I can think of only 1 thing  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 12:59 PM   #1 
  - To clarify  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 01:38 PM   #5 
     - Okay, I think it's doable but ballot boxes should be transparent  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 02:41 PM   #23 
        - At the start of election day  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 02:49 PM   #25 
           - but I saw on tv where the seals were broken by poll workers  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 02:53 PM   #29 
           - Seals can be broken in the case of jams  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 04:55 PM   #54 
           - Numbers are also checked against the number of voters.  MH1   Jul-22-06 02:57 PM   #30 
              - oh, don't get me started on this one  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 03:00 PM   #32 
  - loss of under/over votes by hand counting is impossible - indeed one  papau   Jul-22-06 01:00 PM   #2 
  - Ah, but court cases are built on trying to discern voter intent  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 01:45 PM   #7 
     - True as to both bicker and as to OpScan - indeed the Florida switch off  papau   Jul-22-06 08:05 PM   #85 
  - At the risk of flames....  Febble   Jul-22-06 01:27 PM   #3 
  - Is this a big problem in your country,  kster   Jul-22-06 01:43 PM   #6 
  - You are proposing that 100,000,000+ ballots will be counted by hand  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 01:51 PM   #8 
  - fist fights, riots and law suits over voter "intent" on residual votes is  papau   Jul-22-06 08:26 PM   #88 
     - Canadian ballots are standardized  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:25 AM   #129 
  - Well, there's no such thing  Febble   Jul-22-06 02:01 PM   #10 
     - UK.gov ditches 'Big Brother'-style e-voting  kster   Jul-22-06 02:08 PM   #12 
     - Yeah, but I'm sure it will come.  Febble   Jul-22-06 02:22 PM   #15 
        - You mean like this  kster   Jul-22-06 02:25 PM   #16 
           - Please address the question  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 02:38 PM   #20 
           - I'm not sure of all the details, all I know is  kster   Jul-22-06 02:43 PM   #24 
           - Oh, that's bloody helpful  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 02:50 PM   #27 
              - Lighten up dude, its the weekend........nt  kster   Jul-22-06 02:53 PM   #28 
              - OK, even though its the weekend, heres a plan  kster   Jul-22-06 03:02 PM   #33 
                 - OK, you have a transparent box with  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:03 PM   #55 
           - use bank tellers like in Mexico  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 03:04 PM   #34 
           - College credit $ for students and or there parents  kster   Jul-22-06 03:13 PM   #35 
           - please, this sounds like a good idea but won't work  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 03:17 PM   #38 
           - OK, I'm with you, How about them tellers, prior to an  kster   Jul-22-06 03:28 PM   #40 
           - well, I think there could be a place for students  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 03:48 PM   #45 
           - Absolutely  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:10 PM   #57 
              - well, how is having private vendors for DREs  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 05:27 PM   #67 
                 - Oh, I agree with you, I am just preparing your for the arguments  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:36 PM   #68 
           - Have you ever actually WORKED in a precinct during an election?  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:07 PM   #56 
           - Yes, we use bank tellers too  Febble   Jul-22-06 03:14 PM   #37 
              - you mean the automated tellers (they're ATMs, here)  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 03:21 PM   #39 
              - Well, that's good  Febble   Jul-22-06 03:38 PM   #41 
                 - Thanks, our biggest weakness is our hodge podge elections  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 03:43 PM   #42 
                    - And then you have all the mis-info further clouding things.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 03:48 PM   #44 
                       - This article says HAVA requires electronic voting machines  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 03:54 PM   #47 
                          - Don't mean to sound snarky but I don't care what the article says.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 04:01 PM   #48 
                             - Wilms, I read the law  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 04:07 PM   #50 
                                - Read it carefully.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 04:12 PM   #51 
                                   - yes but it says the states are to recommend the machines  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 04:16 PM   #52 
                                   - Cite it. The wording is very important.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 05:26 PM   #66 
                                   - no it leaves it up to the states  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 06:04 PM   #73 
                                   - Where do you see electronic voting machines being mandated here?  Wilms   Jul-22-06 06:06 PM   #74 
                                   - You don't know what we have gone through in Maryland  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 06:14 PM   #75 
                                   - I agree that MD's is an extremely frustrating situation.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 06:22 PM   #76 
                                   - No, it just says get rid of your machines if you want our money  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 06:30 PM   #77 
                                   - Vote-PAD: The Simple Voting Device that May Save American Democracy  Wilms   Jul-22-06 06:33 PM   #78 
                                   - it's not going to happen, not enough moola for the vendors  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 06:34 PM   #79 
                                   - I'll accept your view of that, as that's not what I came by to discuss.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 06:38 PM   #80 
                                   - I understand your frustration but do you understand mine  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 06:44 PM   #81 
                                   - I don't have an answer.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 07:42 PM   #84 
                                   - Keep us posted  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 08:16 PM   #86 
                                   - Maryland, Early Voting and the Final Nail in Diebold's Coffin  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-23-06 04:17 PM   #111 
                                   - correction (I believe) -- if you accept HAVA moola, then you have to deep  diva77   Jul-22-06 05:55 PM   #70 
                                      - I think you're correct.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 05:57 PM   #71 
              - Bill counters, which  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:11 PM   #58 
                 - that's true and it is also made by Diebold  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 05:15 PM   #60 
                    - Yes, but the rub is  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:17 PM   #62 
                       - And it's a problem  Febble   Jul-22-06 05:20 PM   #63 
                       - well, then give me a randomly numbered ballot once you  MissWaverly   Jul-22-06 05:21 PM   #64 
                       - Thanks for that point about prattling.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 05:43 PM   #69 
                       - My comment about "prattlig"  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:07 AM   #123 
                       - Not only could be done -- has been done.  eomer   Jul-23-06 07:36 AM   #97 
                          - Where did I say it was prattling to talk about ballot secrecy?  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:13 AM   #125 
                             - Thanks for the clarification.  eomer   Jul-24-06 06:07 AM   #142 
                                - I am certain it does occur  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 08:33 AM   #145 
           - You vette via appointment of poll workers by the judge that runs the local  papau   Jul-22-06 08:34 PM   #90 
              - Right  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:18 AM   #128 
           - Yes  Febble   Jul-22-06 02:41 PM   #22 
              - How do your exit polls come out in the end?  kster   Jul-22-06 02:50 PM   #26 
                 - Well, they are a bit different  Febble   Jul-22-06 03:13 PM   #36 
                    - You knew about the "Shy tories"  kster   Jul-23-06 06:02 PM   #115 
     - The procedure is a simple do the National first and report, go back and  papau   Jul-22-06 08:29 PM   #89 
     - Well, that makes sense to me  Febble   Jul-23-06 03:42 PM   #109 
        - It can be argued there's more fraud potential minus the electoral college  Awsi Dooger   Jul-23-06 04:08 PM   #110 
           - hmmm.....  Febble   Jul-23-06 04:33 PM   #113 
              - What's the common argument around here, only 4 votes per precinct?  Awsi Dooger   Jul-23-06 05:56 PM   #114 
  - Hi Febble - levers are infamous for high error rate due to wear on the  papau   Jul-22-06 08:22 PM   #87 
     - Just realized that given the rather small number of samples my  papau   Jul-22-06 11:53 PM   #93 
     - Well, that's true when it comes to  Febble   Jul-23-06 07:30 AM   #96 
     - Yes  Febble   Jul-23-06 06:31 AM   #94 
  - Then let each voter use an OpScan to check--not cast--the ballot.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 01:36 PM   #4 
  - But we can't TRUST the machines, remember?  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 01:58 PM   #9 
     - Well, I think there are at least three  Febble   Jul-22-06 02:07 PM   #11 
     - That's the way I see it.  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 02:16 PM   #13 
     - Perhaps I wasn't clear.  Wilms   Jul-22-06 02:18 PM   #14 
        - I think random audits are KEY  Febble   Jul-22-06 02:27 PM   #18 
        - Objections to Holt's HR 550...  liam_laddie   Jul-22-06 03:44 PM   #43 
           - On what basis  Febble   Jul-22-06 03:54 PM   #46 
           - Not criteria...(I'm not a scientist-stat person)  liam_laddie   Jul-22-06 04:06 PM   #49 
              - We just had a big thunderstorm  Febble   Jul-22-06 04:26 PM   #53 
              - You need to trust mathematics, and distrust your instincts  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:15 PM   #61 
           - Who says 10% is needed?  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:14 PM   #59 
              - My concern is...  liam_laddie   Jul-23-06 10:08 AM   #98 
                 - As I understand it, HR550  Febble   Jul-23-06 10:50 AM   #99 
                 - The only solution  BeFree   Jul-23-06 11:33 AM   #100 
                 - This bears repeating  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 02:27 PM   #104 
                 - The ony objection I have seen 550  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 02:32 PM   #105 
        - I agree that your suggestion is rational  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 02:37 PM   #19 
        - I agree - at least 5% of precincts and 5% of votes - and truly random n/t  papau   Jul-22-06 08:45 PM   #91 
  - Are you serious?  Everybody   Jul-22-06 02:27 PM   #17 
  - Then tell me how  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 02:38 PM   #21 
  - Not so long ago, in my Austin precinct  janeaustin   Jul-22-06 03:00 PM   #31 
  - Because they don't believe in questioning their own  Kelvin Mace   Jul-22-06 05:23 PM   #65 
     - Over 4 or 5 days, counting 25 races is not a big deal - and National is  papau   Jul-22-06 08:46 PM   #92 
     - It is not just speed  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 02:06 PM   #101 
        - what backs up those assertions? The longer counting goes on does  papau   Jul-23-06 02:59 PM   #107 
     - And well worth it, to preserve democracy.  janeaustin   Jul-23-06 10:04 PM   #116 
        - As the more the ballot is handled  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 11:48 PM   #118 
           - I guess we disagree about that. n/t  janeaustin   Jul-24-06 01:21 AM   #141 
              - Sorry we disgaree  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 08:36 AM   #146 
  - Please explain this to me: if you're in favor of audits that make use of  diva77   Jul-22-06 06:01 PM   #72 
  - Here you go: a compromise  BeFree   Jul-22-06 07:09 PM   #82 
  - thanks for response, but I'd really like someone to answer my questions  diva77   Jul-22-06 07:22 PM   #83 
  - Random sampling  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 02:21 PM   #102 
     - Dumb  BeFree   Jul-23-06 11:59 PM   #121 
        - Actually, since you haven't figured it out  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:03 AM   #122 
           - Apples and oranges is dumb  BeFree   Jul-24-06 12:13 AM   #124 
              - I anxiously await to see the law that you  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:15 AM   #126 
                 - You  BeFree   Jul-24-06 12:18 AM   #127 
                    - I never claimed I save the world  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:28 AM   #132 
                       - I've worked a number of bills  BeFree   Jul-24-06 12:31 AM   #135 
                          - What bills, involving what legislation?  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 08:30 AM   #144 
                             - Odd  BeFree   Jul-24-06 09:16 AM   #151 
                                - Uh, I'm am, not "fixated" on you  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 10:15 AM   #152 
  - Use some form of scanner to help with Under/Over votes and count by hand.  yourout   Jul-23-06 06:44 AM   #95 
  - Ah, no  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 02:26 PM   #103 
     - You are right Kelvin  timewellspent   Jul-23-06 02:44 PM   #106 
     - I keep tryingt to point this out  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 11:54 PM   #119 
        - Where is this fantasy machine?  BeFree   Jul-24-06 12:25 AM   #130 
           - Asked and answered  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:26 AM   #131 
              - No, you haven't.  BeFree   Jul-24-06 12:28 AM   #133 
                 - Asked and answered  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 12:31 AM   #134 
                    - Where? Is that so hard to provide a link?  BeFree   Jul-24-06 12:34 AM   #136 
                       - This is a problem I run into quite often  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 08:28 AM   #143 
     - No 2 scanners are calibrated exactly alike, so your argument falls apart  diva77   Jul-23-06 03:18 PM   #108 
        - I answered the questions  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 11:47 PM   #117 
           - I have heard that hcpb costs, I believe, 33% of what machines cost. Where  diva77   Jul-24-06 01:04 AM   #140 
              - first paperless voting systems have to be banned  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-24-06 08:43 AM   #148 
              - Your local library has dozens of books  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 08:52 AM   #149 
                 - An increase of population increases the pool of people to count ballots.  Wilms   Jul-24-06 09:11 AM   #150 
  - simple...  peacetheonlyway   Jul-23-06 04:20 PM   #112 
  - How does this help in the case where  Kelvin Mace   Jul-23-06 11:56 PM   #120 
  - the design itself  peacetheonlyway   Jul-24-06 12:59 AM   #138 
     - And how do we determine the intent of  Kelvin Mace   Jul-24-06 08:40 AM   #147 
  - You don't want to do that  Awsi Dooger   Jul-24-06 12:52 AM   #137 
  - Election Integrity and Cigarettes  WillYourVoteBCounted   Jul-24-06 01:00 AM   #139 
 

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