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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Dear Autorank, you trueheart, you patriot, it's becoming so obvious that
Edited on Thu Dec-01-05 03:54 PM by Peace Patriot
Bush couldn't have won, I'm not even sure we have to argue it that much any more. I'm sure Americans WANT to believe that we as a people didn't vote for the killers of tens of thousands of innocent people (58% opposed to it before the invasion, Feb. '03), the torture of prisoners (63% opposed to it "under any circumstances," May '04), and the looting of our treasury (90% opposed to the deficit, early '05). I think Americans are just finding out, to their surprise, that we are all pretty much in agreement about Bush and his Cartel (60% to 70% opposition to every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, over the last two years--not to mention Bush approval ratings so low prior to the election that Zogby said he couldn't win, and really tanking now).

People are looking for answers, and they don't need all that much convincing (in my read on things). If they don't know the facts about the 2004 election, they may just be a little puzzled how anyone in their right mind could have voted for Bush, and will be glad to find out that most other Americans aren't crazy.

So, I think you can (and should) simplify this post--for general use. I would suggest that you start it off with some real simple facts:

1) As the result of the so-called "Help America Vote Act" (HAVA), and a $4 billion boondoggle funded by Congress, electronic voting companies, run by rightwing Bush donors, gained control of our election system, with voting machines that use "trade secret," proprietary software, have no or inadequate audit/recount provisions, and are known to be very insecure and hackable. Two such companies, Diebold and ES&S, tabulated 80% of the nation's votes.

2. Late on election day, 2004, with Kerry ahead in the exit polls (scientific polls of voters leaving the voting booth), the corporate news monopolies doctored their exit poll data to fit the results coming from Diebold's and ES&S's secret vote tabulation software. This was not the normal adjustment of exit polls for election demographics. It was a very unusual--indeed, impossible--falsification of the numbers. It has been verified that the real exit polls showed a Kerry win by a 3% margin.


You don't have to use my wording (but feel free to). But you get the idea. It is not the naysayers that this should be written for. If they know the facts, they can make up their minds on the basis of what they know. It should be written (at the first level) for those who are looking for answers, but DON'T know the facts, and need a quick primer with clear explanations and links to sources.

You can make it as complex (and sardonic) as you like--for those with time and interest to read down through the detail--but keep the FIRST level of information clear, for each set of facts: WHAT are you talking about? HOW would you convey it over coffee to a friend?

Avoid using shorthand. Think: 1st grade (knows almost nothing). 2nd grade (knows what exit polls are; that Kerry won, etc., but hasn't followed all the details--may be coming back to the subject after cursory look). 3rd grade (knowledgeable believers, who may want to use the info; knowledgeable naysayers, who might be coming around). (Forget Freepers and idiots--a small minority here, and in our country.)

Let me give you an example (below). First set of numbers you provide. Not explained. What are you talking about? And I am a "knowledgeable believer, who may want to use the info." I studied them for some minutes, and I still didn't know. Finally, I guessed that you were talking about various polls that Kerry won. You never say that Kerry won them. All you have to do is add this**: "The naysayers continue their relentless attempts to mask the overwhelming evidence provided by confirmation of hundreds of pre=election and exit polls **THAT KERRY WON**..."


See (your text):


"The naysayers continue their relentless attempts to mask the overwhelming evidence provided by confirmation of hundreds of pre=election and exit polls:
1) Pre-election state. Total sample: 50 polls* 600 = 30,000
2) Pre-election national. Total Sample: 18 polls *1500 = 27,000
3) Pre-election 48.5% Bush approval. Total: 11 polls*1000 = 11,000
4) 12:22am state exit polls: 73,600 respondents
5) 12:22am national exit poll: 13,047 respondents."


Also, the set of numbers is confusing--and all a jumble. It has asterisked numbers (and I can't find what the * means) which makes it visually confusing. And I still don't know what "600 = 30,000" means in item #1 (et al).

Just a very simple word or two could make it clear. That set of numbers was a showstopper (and I'm a fan!). It stopped me from reading further, and started me writing these suggestions. (But I did go back and read more.)

So, just apply this principle--is all I'm suggesting: FIRST LEVEL statement is for the uninformed (and to be nice to us believers). THEN, you can get into all the esoterica about the attempts to debunk the exit polls (which will be of interest to only a few who followed those debates, or a few newbies who may need 'talking points' on it--in essence, none of their debunkings held up; that's all most people need or want to know).

I was just going to say: TIA makes often makes the same mistake, as to reaching the mathematically-impaired (those whose minds fuzz over at jumbles of numbers)--which is MOST PEOPLE--and suddenly I got what may be the joke...

...that this IS TIA. Now I'll have to check it out...and stop channeling your 8th grade English teacher.


My dream ticket for 2008: Gore/Kerry. ("poetic justice")
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  -Channel the TRUTH: Gore won. Kerry won. Naysayer heads will explode now autorank  Dec-01-05 01:08 PM   #0 
  - Excellent stuff that our media will ignore.  papau   Dec-01-05 01:29 PM   #1 
  - True. here's a little memory I treasure:  robbedvoter   Dec-01-05 02:00 PM   #3 
  - He inserted his own data into Ohio and Florida.  electropop   Dec-02-05 10:21 AM   #49 
  - Can we get Al Gore WITHOUT Lieberman? nm  texpatriot2004   Dec-01-05 02:08 PM   #4 
  - Indeed. That combination actually made me quite nervous.  Pacifist Patriot   Dec-01-05 03:07 PM   #10 
  - texpatriot2004 You're channelling me! Gore-Clark!  autorank   Dec-01-05 03:08 PM   #11 
  - Love that combination nm  texpatriot2004   Dec-01-05 04:56 PM   #17 
  - that would be beautiful.  nashville_brook   Dec-01-05 10:28 PM   #33 
  - Gore NOW  Usrename   Dec-02-05 12:57 AM   #36 
     - It's my favorite Username  autorank   Dec-02-05 02:44 AM   #38 
        - Hey, Dubbya's dropping through the magic 35%  Usrename   Dec-02-05 03:17 AM   #41 
           - Thanks to you Username for your crisp analysis.  autorank   Dec-03-05 01:53 AM   #69 
  - my thoughts exactly  Peggy Day   Dec-03-05 10:03 AM   #73 
  - The silent press is complicit. K&R  Angry Girl   Dec-01-05 02:15 PM   #5 
  - Why do people keep saying, "I can 't believe the media isn't reporting  babsbunny   Dec-01-05 02:31 PM   #6 
     - You're right  Angry Girl   Dec-01-05 02:47 PM   #7 
     - Their tale would be telling....  autorank   Dec-01-05 08:48 PM   #29 
     - It is interesting to look at the companies who own the media and the  Amaryllis   Dec-08-05 08:33 PM   #93 
  - re-elect president gore  mopinko   Dec-01-05 02:49 PM   #8 
  - that's a lot of mistakes for just one post  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-01-05 02:50 PM   #9 
  - Dear Autorank, you trueheart, you patriot, it's becoming so obvious that  Peace Patriot   Dec-01-05 03:40 PM   #12 
  - Peace be with you. Simplicity plus the substrate...  autorank   Dec-01-05 03:51 PM   #13 
  - I'm a BIG fan of yours, Autorank!  Peace Patriot   Dec-01-05 04:02 PM   #14 
  - You need to hang out in the Astrology forum more often  autorank   Dec-01-05 08:40 PM   #28 
  - HAVA is what will get folks interested. Most people have no idea what  KoKo01   Dec-01-05 10:47 PM   #34 
  - Well do check out  Febble   Dec-01-05 04:44 PM   #16 
  - Well, have it your way  Febble   Dec-01-05 04:05 PM   #15 
  - We agree--the fact that there is a question states the problem clearly.  autorank   Dec-01-05 05:17 PM   #18 
  - Well, thank, auto!  Febble   Dec-01-05 05:28 PM   #19 
  - Out of curiosity  Chi   Dec-01-05 06:07 PM   #20 
     - I don't know  Febble   Dec-01-05 07:21 PM   #23 
  - Can a FAKE President, appoint judges? Somebody needs to  Joanne98   Dec-01-05 06:51 PM   #21 
  - Joanne98. Couldn't agree more! Judge Abner Mikva said the same,  autorank   Dec-01-05 08:37 PM   #27 
  - According to TIA's definition, I qualify as a "naysayer".  kiwi_expat   Dec-01-05 06:55 PM   #22 
  - I assume everyone knows and agrees that Gore won; but Kerry also appears  philb   Dec-01-05 07:52 PM   #24 
  - You state the distilled truth: "more organized and diverse..."  autorank   Dec-01-05 08:35 PM   #26 
  - Gore won, but Kerry lost  Cocoa   Dec-01-05 08:11 PM   #25 
  - Have you bothered to look at the evidence?  philb   Dec-03-05 07:58 AM   #71 
     - dialogue of the deaf?  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-03-05 08:36 AM   #72 
  - With no verifiable vote  PATRICK   Dec-01-05 09:00 PM   #30 
  - Very well said. An empty war chest in the hands of a reluctant  autorank   Dec-02-05 02:58 AM   #39 
     - he did throw in the towel  Neil B Forzod   Dec-02-05 03:09 AM   #40 
  - Bravo! K & R. What will it take to make more people aware that the last  Nothing Without Hope   Dec-01-05 09:39 PM   #31 
  - i can tell heads are exploding b/c  nashville_brook   Dec-01-05 10:24 PM   #32 
  - Send this post to Krugman. I think he's ready for even more truth:  understandinglife   Dec-02-05 12:00 AM   #35 
  - these posts are great  Neil B Forzod   Dec-02-05 02:32 AM   #37 
  - Wow  Febble   Dec-02-05 06:56 AM   #42 
     - I should also make it clear  Febble   Dec-02-05 11:38 AM   #52 
  - That Channeling Must Be Working.  AuntiBush   Dec-02-05 07:31 AM   #43 
  - As usual Autorank-YOU ROCK! Why won't the MSM embrace the GAO Report?  mod mom   Dec-02-05 08:09 AM   #44 
  - As usual, we will have to force their attention on the GAO report  katinmn   Dec-02-05 08:38 AM   #45 
  - Here is a ray of hope in the DNC:  mod mom   Dec-02-05 08:57 AM   #46 
  - CM (corporate media) and GAO....CM is the subject of the report  autorank   Dec-02-05 12:06 PM   #53 
  - TIA didn't learn anything here  foo_bar   Dec-02-05 09:51 AM   #47 
  - The burden of proof is NOT on us  pat_k   Dec-02-05 10:18 AM   #48 
  - The answer: It takes way too much time to read the mind numbingly dry  rosebud57   Dec-02-05 10:27 AM   #50 
  - Yes. As I point out above, simple truths are lost in detailed argument and  pat_k   Dec-02-05 10:31 AM   #51 
  - IS a GREAT site.  autorank   Dec-02-05 12:10 PM   #54 
  - And none of the super serious election fraud web sites will link to it  rosebud57   Dec-02-05 06:05 PM   #64 
  - The odd thing about the statistical debate  PATRICK   Dec-02-05 12:52 PM   #55 
  - kick  BamaBecky   Dec-02-05 01:09 PM   #56 
  - Measuring accuracy in TIA's prediction.  autorank   Dec-02-05 02:51 PM   #57 
  - "the final TIA poll" is contradicted by, well, the actual polls  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-02-05 03:37 PM   #58 
  - ah, TIA seems to be channeling himself elsewhere on the Net  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-02-05 05:51 PM   #63 
  - "A job once well done is twice done" Correction to my post #57  autorank   Dec-02-05 04:12 PM   #59 
     - Let me get this straight:  Febble   Dec-02-05 04:41 PM   #60 
        - well, TIA said two things, both rather odd  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-02-05 05:07 PM   #61 
           - Ah!  Febble   Dec-02-05 05:43 PM   #62 
  - Probability Questions & Poll Accuracy, the Muse Speaks  autorank   Dec-02-05 07:02 PM   #65 
  - whoa: I actually AM arguing with a stone... cool...  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-02-05 07:25 PM   #66 
  - Qualification:  Febble   Dec-03-05 04:51 AM   #70 
     - Update  Febble   Dec-03-05 12:52 PM   #76 
        - yes, Wang gets big points for isolating crucial assumptions:  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-03-05 02:09 PM   #77 
  - i am new to the stolen election based on poll result debate  onthebench   Dec-02-05 09:48 PM   #67 
  - Welcome to DU! Unfortunately, there's spin everywhere, some of it  autorank   Dec-03-05 01:47 AM   #68 
  - E/M, and the census  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-03-05 10:42 AM   #74 
  - OK, these are my words:  Febble   Dec-03-05 11:22 AM   #75 
  - Well, OK these are the Truth's words...cheers Is All :toast:  autorank   Dec-04-05 02:01 AM   #78 
     - Well, to save winged Mercury trouble  Febble   Dec-04-05 02:19 AM   #79 
     - Why would undecided voters not follow the "rules" this time?  autorank   Dec-04-05 10:14 PM   #84 
        - Ramdom samples  Febble   Dec-05-05 02:43 AM   #86 
     - "They need to be educated, not brainwashed."  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-04-05 02:12 PM   #80 
        - Whoa Dr. Other...  anaxarchos   Dec-04-05 09:51 PM   #83 
           - bummer... I was hoping for a substantive response  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-04-05 11:51 PM   #85 
              - Well, since you asked...  anaxarchos   Dec-05-05 11:17 AM   #87 
                 - umm, thanks, I guess n/t  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-05-05 11:37 AM   #88 
  - CONFIRMATION of Election Model projections & Exit Polls:Kerry vote % ; win  autorank   Dec-04-05 03:12 PM   #81 
  - CONFIRMATION. This is the Final Word. This post is FOR THE RECORD.  autorank   Dec-04-05 03:18 PM   #82 
  - Channel TIA: THE TIA-NAYSAYER DEBATE: FROM START TO FINISH  autorank   Dec-06-05 11:51 PM   #89 
  - missing the point as usual  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-07-05 05:19 AM   #90 
  - As this is kicked anyway -  Febble   Dec-07-05 07:33 AM   #91 
  - TruthTeller Alert! Nailing "the point as usual!"  autorank   Dec-08-05 03:06 PM   #92 
     - forgot? did this appear on DU?  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-09-05 10:55 AM   #94 
  - Thanks for this refresher. It's also important for those newly joining  mod mom   Dec-09-05 12:58 PM   #95 

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