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Reply #102: Ida Briggs' original study is here: [View All]

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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #101
102. Ida Briggs' original study is here:
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 06:48 AM by Febble
http://www.invisibleida.com/New_Hampshire.htm

and her report on the recount is here:

http://www.invisibleida.com/index.html

My understanding is that selected precincts were chosen on the basis of her finding that vote-counted results were out of whack with expectations based on the 2000 vote, and that the degree to which they diverged was associated with voting technology. The implication from her reports is that the eleven precincts selected included those that she considered suspicious, but I cannot find a place where this is explicitly stated.

USAtoday has articles here:

http://www.russbaker.com/New%20Hampshire%20Recount,%20A...

and here:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/evoting/20...

and there's a piece on Nader's website here:

http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=413

It sounds like Nader selected the 11 precincts based on Briggs's finding.

Ah, here's another one:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1118-03.htm

Precincts are described as those in which "Bush did surprisingly well".


On edit: I think there was a widespread belief, at the time of the NH recount, that the precincts were selected on the basis of aberrant exit polls, a trap Hertzgaard seems to have fallen into as well. Both the exit polls and the Briggs study pointed to the possibility of pro-Bush fraud, but the recount infirms the latter rather than the former. On the other hand, if one accepts (as one need not) that the hand recount is evidence against widespread electronic fraud, then the probability that the exit poll discrepancy was due to polling bias, rather than electronic vote-switching, at least increases.
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  -Mother Jones magazine lets Hertsgaard hack on democracy and elections Land Shark  Nov-12-05 04:12 PM   #0 
  - It reminds me of an old Reese's commercial  GuvWurld   Nov-12-05 04:43 PM   #1 
  - LOL!  sfexpat2000   Nov-12-05 04:50 PM   #2 
  - had to think of "you got peanut butter on my chocolate": smoke and mirrors  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 04:51 PM   #3 
  - Or, as I once heard someone say who was newly elected to congress:  Amaryllis   Nov-12-05 04:58 PM   #8 
  - Well, hang on a bit....  Febble   Nov-12-05 04:52 PM   #4 
  - Oh, dear Febble, hang on or I'll have to take you to the woodshed too....  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 04:57 PM   #6 
  - Well yes  Febble   Nov-12-05 05:36 PM   #12 
     - I'll take "well yes" to be the concession intended, and here's a start:  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 05:52 PM   #16 
        - FYI my state of NH uses optical scanners most everywhere.  Warren Stupidity   Nov-12-05 07:39 PM   #30 
           - think again about optical scanners  garybeck   Nov-12-05 08:14 PM   #32 
           - I agree 99% of NH is saintly honest, that leaves thousands left over...  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 08:25 PM   #33 
  - WHat kind of machines?  druidity33   Nov-12-05 04:57 PM   #7 
     - Invisible Ida again:  Febble   Nov-12-05 06:28 PM   #27 
  - Talk to Kip. He said NH wasn't properly recounted to catch the problems.  Amaryllis   Nov-12-05 04:56 PM   #5 
  - So this would mean NH recount didn't even rule out the error recounts can  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 04:59 PM   #9 
     - What forms of corruption will a recount miss  Febble   Nov-12-05 05:58 PM   #21 
     - Yes, according to Kip. Something about the way it's organized with  Amaryllis   Nov-12-05 09:22 PM   #35 
        - Interesting but vague.  Bill Bored   Nov-12-05 11:47 PM   #41 
           - It's been nearly a year since Kip and I talked about this, so I don't  Amaryllis   Nov-13-05 07:54 PM   #54 
  - Good work with Mother Jones Shark...whip them into shape!  autorank   Nov-12-05 05:18 PM   #10 
  - no math required for the sniff test  nashville_brook   Nov-12-05 05:20 PM   #11 
  - Well that's what recounts do  Febble   Nov-12-05 05:43 PM   #13 
     - Don't think recounts show it "starts to look like" error's in exit polls.  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 06:00 PM   #22 
        - The recounted precincts  Febble   Nov-12-05 06:16 PM   #25 
           - You tell me Febble,  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 07:23 PM   #28 
           - See reply #27 n/t  Febble   Nov-13-05 12:48 AM   #43 
           - just stuff 'em all on election day, right?  OnTheOtherHand   Nov-12-05 07:24 PM   #29 
           - There were a small number of precincts involved  sean in iowa   Nov-13-05 09:14 PM   #57 
              - Here are more links to the NH timeline  sean in iowa   Nov-13-05 10:01 PM   #58 
  - Oh dear. Now someone will have to go on Democracy Now too,  Ojai Person   Nov-12-05 05:50 PM   #14 
  - Very well done Land Shark. I am glad MJ is printing it, it might help  glitch   Nov-12-05 05:51 PM   #15 
  - Go get em landshark  kster   Nov-12-05 05:53 PM   #17 
  - "videotape of the 1000 ballot replacement"  garybeck   Nov-12-05 05:53 PM   #18 
  - videotape is assumed in my hypothetical so I can prove to Hertsgaard  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 06:02 PM   #23 
     - LOL  Febble   Nov-12-05 06:17 PM   #26 
     - OK, so  garybeck   Nov-12-05 07:44 PM   #31 
        - Assuming the recount was done right (contested) and assuming  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 09:26 PM   #36 
        - How to cheat using optical scan or punch card.  Zan_of_Texas   Nov-13-05 12:36 AM   #42 
           - in the case of machine recounts, the same ballot definition errors Repeat  Land Shark   Nov-13-05 02:27 PM   #49 
           - a manual recount would catch ballot definition errors n/t  garybeck   Nov-15-05 10:17 PM   #99 
        - I believe that the recount in NH does indeed cast doubt on the  Time for change   Nov-12-05 10:26 PM   #39 
           - And I believe the recounts in some OHIO counties cast doubt....  kiwi_expat   Nov-15-05 07:42 AM   #91 
  - One the punchcard ballots are detached from the deck, there is no serial #  rosebud57   Nov-12-05 05:55 PM   #19 
  - New Hampshire would not have been worth commiting election  rosebud57   Nov-12-05 05:56 PM   #20 
     - actually the most likely scenarios included a lot of E-College ties  Land Shark   Nov-12-05 06:05 PM   #24 
     - I'd make that a bit more complicated  OnTheOtherHand   Nov-13-05 07:26 AM   #44 
  - Primary states  starmaker   Nov-12-05 08:56 PM   #34 
  - LS- this buds foor you  FogerRox   Nov-12-05 10:24 PM   #38 
     - Thanks for all the family pics here, reminds me of our last LShark reunion  Land Shark   Nov-13-05 04:13 PM   #52 
        - And you must be a cousin of the Oxford Land Shark:  Febble   Nov-14-05 12:47 PM   #72 
           - At the definite risk of seeming impotent, full of rage and anger.....  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 01:44 PM   #75 
              - It seems I got  Febble   Nov-14-05 02:05 PM   #78 
                 - Though gratifying to know your mistake is in the "doesn't matter 2 much"  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 07:10 PM   #86 
  - Congratulations on having your letter published Land Shark  Time for change   Nov-12-05 10:17 PM   #37 
  - Well, they've got MoJo spots on Air America now saying Dems  Bill Bored   Nov-12-05 11:33 PM   #40 
  - Rec number 15! Where's Kip and Ida to add to the Discussion?  Melissa G   Nov-13-05 09:04 AM   #45 
  - Well, I have to say  Febble   Nov-13-05 10:38 AM   #46 
  - reminds me why Land Shark (both) wants to bite Hertsgaard's head off  Land Shark   Nov-13-05 02:12 PM   #48 
  - What dumb-ass mistakes?  Febble   Nov-13-05 02:50 PM   #51 
  - The issue is hertsgaard, not your straw men  Land Shark   Nov-13-05 08:59 PM   #55 
     - Hertsgaard's investigations  Febble   Nov-14-05 02:14 AM   #59 
        - Correction  Febble   Nov-14-05 05:01 AM   #60 
           - Please see my post #64; I think you radically underappreciate that  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 09:39 AM   #65 
              - If you view this entire debate  Febble   Nov-14-05 10:41 AM   #66 
                 - I think I could demonstrate such ability, in fact other than hard stats  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 11:25 AM   #70 
                    - "Totality of evidence":  Febble   Nov-14-05 12:42 PM   #71 
                       - caution is indicated on your use of the word "foil"  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 01:55 PM   #77 
                          - Not sampling error  Febble   Nov-14-05 02:07 PM   #79 
  - and by the way, how DO you explain New Hampshire?  OnTheOtherHand   Nov-13-05 04:19 PM   #53 
     - The issue is Hertsgaard, not YOUR straw men OTOH  Land Shark   Nov-13-05 09:14 PM   #56 
        - my straw men?  OnTheOtherHand   Nov-14-05 06:04 AM   #61 
           - Re: conclusions to draw from the NH recount  sean in iowa   Nov-14-05 07:27 AM   #62 
              - well, I disagree with your "zero," but --  OnTheOtherHand   Nov-14-05 04:36 PM   #85 
  - "He bothers to look behind frequently-cited assertions and try to  Time for change   Nov-14-05 08:26 AM   #63 
  - THank you Time for Change for Numbered Points, my responses are:  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 09:22 AM   #64 
  - But let's put this in perspective  Time for change   Nov-14-05 11:14 AM   #68 
     - on "sitting back and playing scientist" please see my new post  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 11:20 AM   #69 
  - That's truly pathetic!  Chi   Nov-14-05 01:22 PM   #73 
  - You're welcome Chi - Here is my full response to the article  Time for change   Nov-14-05 02:40 PM   #82 
  - Well, I think that your use of  Febble   Nov-14-05 01:32 PM   #74 
     - we shall see if the Hertsgaard approach engenders any prosecution  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 01:47 PM   #76 
     - Or to boost the credibility  Febble   Nov-14-05 02:17 PM   #80 
        - But if the beating up is cheap shots, it just takes us away from the truth  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 04:15 PM   #84 
           - Cheap shots have no place  Febble   Nov-15-05 01:43 AM   #89 
              - Yes. on the margins, a cheap shot is not a classic cheap shot  Land Shark   Nov-15-05 07:48 AM   #92 
                 - You have suggested that my posts  Febble   Nov-15-05 11:05 AM   #95 
                    - another legal concept, how i've been trained to think at least  Land Shark   Nov-15-05 02:15 PM   #96 
                       - Shoutfest on other thread n/t  Febble   Nov-15-05 04:34 PM   #98 
     - Ok, I admitted that perhaps "burst the myth" is over-dramatic with regard  Time for change   Nov-14-05 02:36 PM   #81 
        - OK!  Febble   Nov-14-05 02:41 PM   #83 
           - Yes he did  Time for change   Nov-14-05 11:06 PM   #88 
  - To be fair, I do agree with you that Hertsgaard's last paragraph is fair  Time for change   Nov-14-05 10:59 AM   #67 
     - Need to focus on where we're at: NO INVESTIGATION  Land Shark   Nov-14-05 07:44 PM   #87 
        - Yes, I basicaly agree  Time for change   Nov-15-05 07:34 AM   #90 
        - your nutshell interpretation is EXACTLY  marions ghost   Nov-15-05 08:20 AM   #93 
        - So what about New Hampshire  PATRICK   Nov-15-05 10:49 AM   #94 
  - Finally, The Nation gets real with cartoon, "Ohio Voting"  Ojai Person   Nov-13-05 12:32 PM   #47 
  - Excellent Ojai Person! n/t  Melissa G   Nov-13-05 02:36 PM   #50 
  - Land Shark has now REALLY GONE AFTER Hertsgaard!!!!! (Picture!)  Land Shark   Nov-15-05 02:17 PM   #97 
  - Excellent Post - Thank you  sunshinekathy   Dec-22-05 02:11 AM   #100 
  - Just a couple points about the NH recount.  Stevepol   Dec-22-05 05:23 AM   #101 
     - Ida Briggs' original study is here:  Febble   Dec-22-05 06:28 AM   #102 
     - how "concentrated" could the discrepancies have been?  OnTheOtherHand   Dec-22-05 07:04 AM   #103 
 

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