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Reply #5: Yes, the best solution is electronic touch screen with paper trail [View All]

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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-04-05 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes, the best solution is electronic touch screen with paper trail
....or just plain paper ballets hand counted.
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  -Honest question: if the vote is on paper but tabulated by computer, are we helderheid  Aug-04-05 05:06 PM   #0 
  - Yup. It's that central tabulator that needs to go.  shraby   Aug-04-05 05:09 PM   #1 
  - I agree  helderheid   Aug-04-05 05:10 PM   #4 
  - yeah U R right-- to a point  FogerRox   Aug-04-05 05:10 PM   #2 
  - Optical Scans are hardly an improvement ...  Ian_rd   Aug-04-05 05:10 PM   #3 
  - Optical scanners are not computers.  endarkenment   Aug-04-05 05:44 PM   #13 
  - Optical scanners are just easy to tamper with as touchscreens,  Stevepol   Aug-08-05 01:04 PM   #80 
  - They are quite easy to tamper with, but...  riqster   Aug-08-05 02:52 PM   #82 
  - Optical scanners are just easy to tamper with as touchscreens,  Stevepol   Aug-08-05 01:04 PM   #81 
  - paper ballots-- please-- a paper trial is somhing left behind--  FogerRox   Aug-04-05 05:56 PM   #15 
  - Yes, the best solution is electronic touch screen with paper trail  whistle   Aug-04-05 05:15 PM   #5 
  - Touch screens? WHY ???!!!!!  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 05:33 PM   #10 
  - It was not optical scan equipment  endarkenment   Aug-04-05 05:22 PM   #6 
  - I agree with you on the touch screens - I guess my question goes for  helderheid   Aug-04-05 05:25 PM   #7 
     - OK two different issues here  endarkenment   Aug-04-05 05:40 PM   #12 
     - Yes!  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 06:28 PM   #23 
     - helderheid - let me tell you what I have learned from working with  merh   Aug-04-05 06:47 PM   #27 
  - Only way to make it safe  kster   Aug-04-05 05:28 PM   #8 
  - E voting - are you saying go with E voting?  merh   Aug-04-05 06:24 PM   #21 
     - Paper Ballots Hand Counted And Recorded By The People  kster   Aug-04-05 09:08 PM   #45 
        - Are there innovations in hand-counting of paper ballots?  diva77   Aug-08-05 11:41 PM   #85 
           - Innovations? Sure  riqster   Aug-09-05 01:38 PM   #89 
  - I think of optical scans as a potentially rescuable system  Land Shark   Aug-04-05 05:32 PM   #9 
  - Once the votes are digitized they can be manipulated.  CrispyQGirl   Aug-04-05 05:35 PM   #11 
  - IMHO, ...  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 05:56 PM   #14 
  - Please stop using paper trial-- Opscans scan paper ballots-  FogerRox   Aug-04-05 05:59 PM   #17 
     - R U talkin to me?  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 06:06 PM   #18 
        - Any one in genral that use the term paper trial--  FogerRox   Aug-04-05 06:45 PM   #26 
  - Optical-scan machines have screwed us over big-time. Think 18,181.  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 05:58 PM   #16 
  - Proper QC auditing would have..  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 06:08 PM   #19 
     - AGAIN ??!!!!!!  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 06:21 PM   #20 
        - Yep.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 06:26 PM   #22 
        - "Histrionics" -- Where?  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 06:33 PM   #24 
           - Machines don't steal elections...  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 06:40 PM   #25 
              - Those doing "Quality Control" in the arenas you cite INTEND for their  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 06:56 PM   #28 
                 - QC requirements ...  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 07:12 PM   #32 
                    - Where a recount is done, errors CAN be caught.  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 07:29 PM   #39 
                       - Um....  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 07:44 PM   #42 
                          - So ... we're stuck with the vote-stealers?  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 08:50 PM   #44 
                             - Yep.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 09:47 PM   #47 
                                - Its fascinating how you continue to defend the vote-stealers.  nicknameless   Aug-05-05 12:25 AM   #49 
                                - Indeed  kster   Aug-05-05 12:53 AM   #50 
                                - Thanks and Amen!  nicknameless   Aug-05-05 01:18 AM   #53 
                                   - You two together at last.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-05-05 01:32 AM   #55 
                                   - Hey,You stole my line  kster   Aug-05-05 02:09 AM   #56 
                                      - The only method I've seen you obsess over is...  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-05-05 05:15 AM   #60 
                                   - You get legislation passed that does not allow them to  merh   Aug-05-05 10:14 AM   #64 
                                   - You got that right  kster   Aug-06-05 12:19 AM   #71 
                                   - Firmware...  GentryLange   Aug-12-05 04:20 AM   #101 
                                - WOW.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-05-05 01:30 AM   #54 
                                - You have to audit complete precincts or at least complete machines  Bill Bored   Aug-05-05 04:51 PM   #65 
                                   - Yes and No.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-05-05 06:57 PM   #67 
                                      - You still need serial numbers on every ballot to compare the VVPAT  Bill Bored   Aug-05-05 08:32 PM   #68 
                                         - VVPAT is garbage.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-05-05 09:07 PM   #69 
                                            - DREs do not have VVPBs. They have VVPATs.  Bill Bored   Aug-06-05 01:06 AM   #72 
                                               - Yea, I've no interest in a trail.  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-06-05 01:50 AM   #73 
                                               - NO! And do not call it a "trail"... remember ANDY'S WARNING!  demodonkey   Aug-06-05 06:14 AM   #75 
        - I don't understand..  merh   Aug-04-05 06:59 PM   #29 
           - Diebold ATM use open sorce software  FogerRox   Aug-04-05 07:11 PM   #31 
           - I'm not advocating for the Diebold DREs  merh   Aug-04-05 07:15 PM   #34 
           - I HAVE DONE NONE OF THE THINGS YOU'RE SAYING!  nicknameless   Aug-04-05 07:14 PM   #33 
              - The opti-scans with paper ballots is what the other poster is  merh   Aug-04-05 07:23 PM   #36 
              - Funding has been a number one problem for election officials  merh   Aug-04-05 07:26 PM   #37 
  - OK, so we should add the tabulation machines to those we want with open  helderheid   Aug-04-05 07:06 PM   #30 
  - IMHO, with proper auditing...  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-04-05 07:21 PM   #35 
  - Source code to be held in escrow if irregularities a rise  FogerRox   Aug-04-05 07:27 PM   #38 
  - Yes.  merh   Aug-04-05 07:33 PM   #40 
  - Agreed!  adolfo   Aug-08-05 02:56 PM   #83 
  - IMHO that depends on the election officials you encounter..  GentryLange   Aug-12-05 04:31 AM   #102 
  - But what do you do when the firmware is rigged?  nicknameless   Aug-05-05 04:14 AM   #57 
     - Whether the software is written...  yowzayowzayowza   Aug-05-05 04:28 AM   #58 
     - I certainly wasn't asking YOU.  nicknameless   Aug-05-05 04:58 AM   #59 
     - Anyone who knows me on this forum knows how anti diebold, etc., I am  helderheid   Aug-05-05 09:18 AM   #63 
        - I think most DUers are anti-diebold etc. vote-stealing machines.  nicknameless   Aug-05-05 05:33 PM   #66 
  - Clermont was not the only county to use Opti - Brown did also  timewellspent   Aug-04-05 07:40 PM   #41 
  - Welcome to DU, timewellspent!  merh   Aug-04-05 07:47 PM   #43 
  - Precinct totals should be compared to central totals on the Internet.  Bill Bored   Aug-04-05 09:08 PM   #46 
  - Thank you for posting a reasonable post.  merh   Aug-04-05 10:36 PM   #48 
  - opscans with random audits  garybeck   Aug-05-05 01:10 AM   #51 
  - If we want a printout  Wow   Aug-05-05 01:15 AM   #52 
  - Two advantages of opscan  eridani   Aug-05-05 08:07 AM   #61 
  - The only way to make any voting system work is transparency  riqster   Aug-05-05 09:15 AM   #62 
  - KICK.NT  kster   Aug-05-05 10:18 PM   #70 
  - Helderheid, great question  kster   Aug-06-05 02:34 AM   #74 
  - Thanks :)  helderheid   Aug-06-05 08:21 AM   #76 
  - kick.nt  kster   Aug-07-05 10:25 PM   #77 
  - Central tabulators can be screwed with just like regular voting machines  Time for change   Aug-08-05 09:13 AM   #78 
  - Actually, that is only one method that was used.  riqster   Aug-08-05 09:25 AM   #79 
  - Absolutely -- thank you for stressing that  Time for change   Aug-10-05 03:34 PM   #95 
  - Calling liam_laddie  kiwi_expat   Aug-08-05 08:57 PM   #84 
     - I have discussed this issue with Voters Unite!, among others  Time for change   Aug-09-05 08:05 AM   #86 
     - Just seems to me this would be the easiest way to swing an election as  helderheid   Aug-09-05 08:30 AM   #87 
        - I think so too  Time for change   Aug-10-05 04:02 PM   #96 
        - This is why  kster   Aug-10-05 05:44 PM   #97 
     - answering the call, sort of...  liam_laddie   Aug-09-05 01:23 PM   #88 
        - Thanks liam. We just need the pre-tabulator TOTAL votes for each precinct  kiwi_expat   Aug-10-05 01:34 AM   #90 
           - That's what I thought too  Time for change   Aug-10-05 03:31 PM   #94 
              - Ohio statute re. recording number of regular ballots used  kiwi_expat   Aug-11-05 10:46 PM   #99 
                 - "Valid"-prov totals ARE available by precinct. That's all we need!  kiwi_expat   Aug-12-05 12:11 AM   #100 
                    - That sounds great!  Time for change   Aug-12-05 10:51 AM   #103 
                       - Liam-laddie indicated he might try again to check the Ham County books  kiwi_expat   Aug-12-05 08:26 PM   #105 
                          - Let me see if I understand this correctly  Time for change   Aug-13-05 04:13 PM   #107 
                             - We are just talking about the TOTAL votes for the precinct, of course.  kiwi_expat   Aug-14-05 07:44 AM   #108 
                                - I am very excited about this. I think this could be an important key to  Time for change   Aug-14-05 04:25 PM   #109 
                                   - I sure hope you're right.  kiwi_expat   Aug-15-05 10:31 PM   #110 
                                      - I don't know much about Hamilton County  Time for change   Aug-16-05 11:52 AM   #111 
                                         - I agree with you about Cuyahoga and Warren Counties - and Clermont...  kiwi_expat   Aug-16-05 07:23 PM   #112 
                                            - I will bring this up with Ray Beckerman's 'Ohio project'  Time for change   Aug-17-05 05:26 PM   #113 
                                               - Good idea.  kiwi_expat   Aug-17-05 06:47 PM   #114 
                                                  - Here ya go:  Time for change   Aug-17-05 08:38 PM   #115 
                                                     - Liam_laddie knows the most about the pre-tab totals.  kiwi_expat   Aug-17-05 11:35 PM   #116 
                                                     - I wasn't able to get the needed info from the Ohio Project  Time for change   Aug-18-05 03:15 PM   #118 
                                                     - How about contacting Kucinich's office for help with Cuyahoga?  kiwi_expat   Aug-18-05 08:02 PM   #119 
                                                     - I'll look into it, thanks n/t  Time for change   Aug-19-05 06:12 AM   #120 
  - helderheid  marions ghost   Aug-10-05 08:33 AM   #91 
  - Blackwell would like it to be Diebold  riqster   Aug-10-05 09:15 AM   #92 
  - thanks for that info  marions ghost   Aug-10-05 11:05 AM   #93 
  - thanks for this - a very important clarification and much appreciated!  helderheid   Aug-11-05 08:52 PM   #98 
  - MG. do we have a date when these new memory cards have become suspect?  mod mom   Aug-22-05 06:35 PM   #122 
  - punch cards were by FAR the biggest problem in FL  Cocoa   Aug-12-05 06:42 PM   #104 
  - They overreach because they have to  PATRICK   Aug-13-05 09:04 AM   #106 
  - Hi, Patrick, I haven't seen you around.  hunter   Aug-18-05 12:44 PM   #117 
  - Kick,for old times sake..nt  kster   Aug-21-05 11:45 PM   #121 
     - kick for transparent elections.  mod mom   Aug-25-05 12:49 PM   #123 
 

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