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Reply #7: If vote selling was a significant problem, we would see it [View All]

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-11-05 11:41 AM
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7. If vote selling was a significant problem, we would see it
Especially in the hand recount and election contest here in WA state with a 129 vote difference over almost 3 million total votes.

MORE than 2/3 of our ballots are mailed in or dropped off absentees, and what that means is that the vote buyer can buy the ballot, have the voter sign it, and then insure it is voted properly by personally dropping it in the mail. Yet, while lots of problems have been raised in Washington state, vote buying is not one of them even though it would be easy to do with a willing seller.

But all we can do in most cases, even with something such as murder, is make a law against it!!

Actually trying to stop something in advance is extraordinarily difficult. Think of the Pentagon's computers being hacked, or the President's security.

There will be criticisms, fair or unfair, of ANY system. Those with experience in courts or politics know that even the most saintly person can easily be seemingly discredited. The real question is always what system, on balance, is best.

The general test for a good system is that it is understandable not just by experts but by WE THE PEOPLE who created the government, a system that is verifiable by WE THE PEOPLE and not just experts, and a system that can be observed in its processes as being done right the FIRST time by WE THE PEOPLE, so that the expensive burden of a recount is not placed between candidates and justice.

(For example, Chris Gregoire in WA State just barely came up with 700,000 for a hand recount, how would a state auditor or supreme court justice candidate afford this without being beholden, given their smaller donor bases?)

In your testimony I would stress the above policy reasons, the need for a fair system that all will support because none of us know who the future winners and losers of elections will be, and the fact that winners always think the process was fair (think referees in sports and whether you see athletes refusing to take the foul shots from questionable calls!) and losers often but not always think the process unfair. But the correct perspective to adopt since we want to maintain our democracy based on the consent of the governed, is that it is the LOSER's perspective that is most relevant, because they are the ones who may lose confidence in the system, thus undermining the peace and stability of society.
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  -Andy Or Other Experts: Can There Be Adequate Safeguards Over DREs? truckin  Feb-11-05 08:32 AM   #0 
  - What you propose is illegal.  hedda_foil   Feb-11-05 09:26 AM   #1 
  - Are you sure that giving a receipt is illegal because of vote selling?  truckin   Feb-11-05 09:47 AM   #2 
     - If it ain't illegal, it ought to be.  Wilms   Feb-11-05 12:40 PM   #9 
        - You guys are sharp!  NationalEnquirer   Feb-14-05 10:16 AM   #27 
           - Yeah but vote selling can easily occur in vote by mail, but doesn't  Land Shark   Feb-14-05 02:24 PM   #28 
  - have you seen the video form the credit card fraud expert?  garybeck   Feb-11-05 09:53 AM   #3 
  - here it is, watch this video  garybeck   Feb-11-05 09:55 AM   #4 
     - Thanks Gary, I will watch it  truckin   Feb-11-05 10:20 AM   #6 
  - No faith in DREs  BeFree   Feb-11-05 10:06 AM   #5 
  - If vote selling was a significant problem, we would see it  Land Shark   Feb-11-05 11:41 AM   #7 
  - The video of the credit card fraud "expert"  Land Shark   Feb-11-05 11:59 AM   #8 
  - Receipts are illegal, for the reason that Hedda mentioned... also...  demodonkey   Feb-11-05 12:43 PM   #10 
  - Ilegal where, under what law? State or federal makes a big difference n/t  Land Shark   Feb-11-05 01:54 PM   #11 
  - truckin  Zan_of_Texas   Feb-11-05 02:37 PM   #12 
  - For whom are you testifying?  Wilms   Feb-11-05 02:49 PM   #13 
  - I will be testifying as part of TrueVoteCT  truckin   Feb-11-05 04:13 PM   #14 
  - go to this website and READ PLEASE!  Bill Bored   Feb-11-05 04:24 PM   #15 
  - And here's how to testify before a state legislature!  Bill Bored   Feb-11-05 04:46 PM   #16 
  - Emphasize that optical scanning makes voting faster==  eridani   Feb-11-05 10:17 PM   #17 
  - Can you say "DRE bottleneck"? I knew you could!  Land Shark   Feb-11-05 10:31 PM   #18 
  - All very good points!  Bill Bored   Feb-12-05 08:28 PM   #21 
  - excellent points about opti-scan, eridani  marions ghost   Feb-14-05 09:23 AM   #26 
  - Crappy hardware makes a good excuse....  yourout   Feb-11-05 10:51 PM   #19 
  - Good point, e-voting DOUBLES & mystifies excuses for "anomalies" n/t  Land Shark   Feb-13-05 06:38 PM   #24 
  - Thanks for all of your input, it's been very helpful  truckin   Feb-12-05 10:01 AM   #20 
  - DRE's and Open source code  icehenge   Feb-12-05 09:50 PM   #22 
  - Here my answer  Dcitizen   Feb-13-05 01:39 PM   #23 
  - lots of great stuff at chuckherrin.com about voter hacking etc.....  msongs   Feb-13-05 09:36 PM   #25 
 

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