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Reply #76: Voters oppose both wars now. Something tells me it wont be "20 years" before both get more funding. [View All]

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #67
76. Voters oppose both wars now. Something tells me it wont be "20 years" before both get more funding.
Edited on Sat Nov-07-09 12:27 PM by Dr Fate
HCR , on the other hand, is a hot topic, the public is for it, and they would be willing to wait a few days for a bill w/o this very unpopular mandate.

Does DEM leadership have the skills, work ethic & guts to make it happen, or just more excuses & "conventional wisdom"?
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  -I'm sorry to say it but I want this healthcare legislation to crash and burn cali  Nov-07-09 09:08 AM   #0 
  - Agreed  Autumn   Nov-07-09 09:11 AM   #1 
  - Take a deep breath and see what comes out of Conference.  jasi2006   Nov-07-09 07:04 PM   #172 
     - Yes. Let's wait for 20-25 years to see if it really works or not. Let's wait.  FormerDittoHead   Nov-08-09 08:54 AM   #193 
  - Yeah, I agree too...  CaliforniaPeggy   Nov-07-09 09:12 AM   #2 
  - Boy, for it being a "giveaway" to insurance companies, the ins. companies sure are against it.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 09:14 AM   #3 
  - I just talked to an friend who works for a health insurance company  skipos   Nov-07-09 09:20 AM   #8 
  - Yea and I have asked the question to a few DUers making such claims and none answer it.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 09:22 AM   #11 
     - Try asking a question in good faith then.  Hello_Kitty   Nov-07-09 11:15 AM   #36 
     - I had an OP that asked why health insurance stocks are underperforming the S&P  skipos   Nov-07-09 11:51 AM   #57 
        - There could be a lot of reasons for stock going down.  Hello_Kitty   Nov-07-09 12:04 PM   #66 
        - Stocks at a glance....  lyonn   Nov-07-09 01:23 PM   #121 
     - you know better than to expect a well articulated response from them  Aramchek   Nov-07-09 12:37 PM   #94 
     - you DLC corporatist bankster lover, you  dionysus   Nov-07-09 02:32 PM   #151 
  - Because that is how you play the negotiation game.  phantom power   Nov-07-09 09:21 AM   #10 
  - That not an answer. Thats a cop out to side step the question.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 09:25 AM   #14 
     - Of course it's an answer. You might disagree with it.  phantom power   Nov-07-09 09:37 AM   #18 
     - No, its a convoluted conspiracy theory that does not actually answer my valid question.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 09:42 AM   #20 
     - Just b/c they oppose it does not mean they wont come out better than middle class voters.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 11:29 AM   #42 
     - just curious how do you get people covered without mandating coverage?  Egnever   Nov-07-09 12:28 PM   #83 
     - The same way we pay for multi-billion dollar, unpopular wars based on lies?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:33 PM   #88 
        - Was that supposed to be an answer?  Egnever   Nov-07-09 12:43 PM   #97 
           - Not "an" answer- but "the" answer. Yes, taxes pay for public projects.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:52 PM   #103 
              - Well i dont think you are thinking this through  Egnever   Nov-07-09 01:13 PM   #116 
                 - So Obama and the DEMS will be breaking their promise? I guess they didn't think that through.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 01:21 PM   #120 
                    - I dont understand what you are saying .  Egnever   Nov-07-09 01:27 PM   #123 
                       - Sure- you do- I'm saying we should raise taxes on the top 1%.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 01:38 PM   #130 
                          - So in other words you want a pony.  Egnever   Nov-07-09 01:46 PM   #131 
                             - So , in other words, you want "ponies" for the Corporations and the ultra rich.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 02:04 PM   #141 
                                - Taxes are mandates  Egnever   Nov-07-09 02:06 PM   #144 
                                   - Fine- then let's "mandate" that the top 1% pay raised taxes in order to help fund HC.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 02:15 PM   #149 
                                      - Increased taxes on >$500,000 a year. It's already in the bill.  boppers   Nov-07-09 08:58 PM   #183 
     - No its still not a give away. Not when you consider what we will also require of the corporations.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 01:11 PM   #113 
     - They will be making their profits, instead of the money going back into the system.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 01:27 PM   #122 
        - I don't have a problem with profits as long as people get covered  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 01:34 PM   #129 
           - I do. I'd rather the "profits" go back into the system, not into the pockets of the gougers.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 01:48 PM   #133 
              - Its dishonest to call it a give away because the companies stand to lose more than they gain.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 02:03 PM   #140 
                 - I dont feel I'm lying when I say that they are still getting something out of this...  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 02:11 PM   #148 
     - Is public option out of the bill? nt  lyonn   Nov-07-09 01:59 PM   #137 
        - Was a strong PO that I qualify for ever in any viable bill? n/t  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 02:19 PM   #150 
     - +100  Egnever   Nov-07-09 12:27 PM   #82 
     - single payer never had the votes. i don't understand why people cannot grasp this.  dionysus   Nov-07-09 02:36 PM   #153 
     - Wouldnt they oppose ANYTHING that is percieved as taking even the slightest amt. of power from them?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 11:24 AM   #38 
     - Makes sense, otherwise why spend so much opposing it?  lyonn   Nov-07-09 01:56 PM   #136 
        - B/c they prefer the status quo to what still amounts to a give away. n/t  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 02:05 PM   #143 
  - theatre.... n/t  nebenaube   Nov-07-09 10:21 AM   #25 
  - Its the "Don't throw me in the Briar Patch" strategy..  bvar22   Nov-07-09 10:51 AM   #29 
  - right cause people are making their decisions based on insurance companies reactions  Egnever   Nov-07-09 12:30 PM   #86 
     - See posts 8 and 11 this thread.  bvar22   Nov-07-09 12:42 PM   #96 
        - but the Briar patch comment does?  Egnever   Nov-07-09 12:44 PM   #99 
  - They were out to destroy anything close to a viable public option. They succeeded.  ipaint   Nov-07-09 11:41 AM   #48 
  - DING! DING! DING! DING!  SKKY   Nov-07-09 01:18 PM   #119 
  - They're just complaining about being thrown in the briar patch at this point.  JVS   Nov-07-09 05:15 PM   #169 
  - "Red herring" "bait-and-switch" familiar with the terms?  DRoseDARs   Nov-07-09 09:12 PM   #184 
  - Egads  sandnsea   Nov-07-09 09:14 AM   #4 
  - That was my understanding of it too unless something changed.  Kdillard   Nov-07-09 09:19 AM   #6 
  - I'm glad you don't have a vote. nt  ChicagoSuz219   Nov-07-09 09:17 AM   #5 
  - Neither do you.  arcadian   Nov-07-09 09:45 AM   #23 
     - True. Things are looking good in Congress, tho'... so YAY!! nt  ChicagoSuz219   Nov-07-09 11:38 AM   #47 
  - this thing based more or less on the Mass. model is just awful.nt  xchrom   Nov-07-09 09:20 AM   #7 
  - People who can't get insurance now will thank you for your idealism  frazzled   Nov-07-09 09:20 AM   #9 
  - I know I was shocked to learn that you could be turned down for a  Kdillard   Nov-07-09 09:24 AM   #12 
     - Or turned down for being an HIV risk because you were raped and a dr gave you anti-AIDS meds.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 09:26 AM   #15 
  - The anti-choice crowd knows something that progressives don't.  John Q. Citizen   Nov-07-09 09:25 AM   #13 
  - and what then?  nemo137   Nov-08-09 08:04 AM   #191 
  - If it is good enough for Alan Grayson, it is good enough for me.  tabatha   Nov-07-09 09:28 AM   #16 
  - And that dirty, rotten corporatist Howard Dean!  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 09:30 AM   #17 
  - Next you should call him a "DLCer".  argonaut   Nov-07-09 09:39 AM   #19 
  - A corporatist AND a DLCer? That would make my progressive gonads WAY too hot and bothered.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 09:43 AM   #22 
  - Actually, Dean said it should be passed.  tabatha   Nov-07-09 09:43 AM   #21 
  - you know...I remember Conyers saying  windbreeze   Nov-07-09 11:01 AM   #32 
  - Oh great!  nevergiveup   Nov-07-09 09:47 AM   #24 
  - +1 n/t  firedupdem   Nov-07-09 10:22 AM   #26 
  - Well said! nt  babylonsister   Nov-07-09 11:38 AM   #45 
  - Thank you for writing  Cha   Nov-07-09 01:47 PM   #132 
  - Its one thing to say that you against the legislation  grantcart   Nov-07-09 10:29 AM   #27 
  - don't expect reason from those who oppose the bill, they have none  Aramchek   Nov-07-09 12:40 PM   #95 
  - Thanks for helping kill me off!  dave29   Nov-07-09 10:43 AM   #28 
  - I have a question about this health care reform...  windbreeze   Nov-07-09 10:55 AM   #30 
  - It is a catch22 there needs to be a mandate. The way I understood it is that you were fined.  Kdillard   Nov-07-09 10:59 AM   #31 
  - No, her kids will have insurance if they are lucky enough to have their parents foot the bill  Hello_Kitty   Nov-07-09 11:11 AM   #35 
     - IF that IS the case, then I am against it, period...  windbreeze   Nov-07-09 12:12 PM   #71 
        - Yeah, I don't know anyone who opts out of insurance just because they can either.  Hello_Kitty   Nov-07-09 12:19 PM   #74 
        - wonderful...and here I was hoping I had misunderstood....n/t  windbreeze   Nov-07-09 12:37 PM   #93 
        - There are afordibility credits  Egnever   Nov-07-09 01:30 PM   #126 
  - well there are fines for not buying insurance  Egnever   Nov-07-09 12:51 PM   #101 
     - The point is....if even ONE does....  windbreeze   Nov-08-09 12:44 AM   #188 
  - Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater  Politicub   Nov-07-09 11:04 AM   #33 
  - I agree with Cali today.  bvar22   Nov-07-09 11:08 AM   #34 
  - I don't--this is basically an experiment, and I want to see how it works.  TwilightGardener   Nov-07-09 11:18 AM   #37 
  - Its just a stepping stone  BootinUp   Nov-07-09 11:24 AM   #39 
  - +1  Oregone   Nov-07-09 11:25 AM   #40 
  - jeez! I don't wish for the dem defeat. nt  cry baby   Nov-07-09 11:26 AM   #41 
  - It failing isn't going to help it become a better bill. More of a delay and it  Thrill   Nov-07-09 11:34 AM   #43 
  - Yay, that's the spirit! Let's stop 40 years worth of progress  impik   Nov-07-09 11:37 AM   #44 
  - You moron! Abortion rights have been reduced for many years now  IndianaGreen   Nov-07-09 01:06 PM   #110 
  - If this bill crashes and burns, we will get absolutely nothing for another 20 years.  backscatter712   Nov-07-09 11:38 AM   #46 
  - Why 20 years? Why not just go back to congress and keep working until it gets done right?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 11:46 AM   #50 
     - If you haven't noticed that is exactly what was being done after  Cleita   Nov-07-09 11:49 AM   #54 
     - You really think Congress is going to turn around and try again after that kind of embarassment?  backscatter712   Nov-07-09 11:51 AM   #56 
        - So if DEMS had opposed invading Iraq, the GOP would have had to wait 20 years to invade?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 11:55 AM   #61 
        - Not a heck of a lot of Dems opposed the invasion of Iraq.  backscatter712   Nov-07-09 12:04 PM   #67 
           - Voters oppose both wars now. Something tells me it wont be "20 years" before both get more funding.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:21 PM   #76 
        - Exactly. Once a bill is passed it can always be fixed but if it doesn't pass noone will want to  Kdillard   Nov-07-09 11:57 AM   #64 
           - Who is the " no one" in your statement? Blue Dogs? DLCers?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:25 PM   #80 
           - It will need to get in line behind nafta, welfare reform and deregulation.  ipaint   Nov-07-09 03:25 PM   #162 
  - I lurked here for a long time before joining and posting only recently.  branders seine   Nov-07-09 11:44 AM   #49 
  - Yeah, I gotta agree.  Cleita   Nov-07-09 11:47 AM   #51 
  - Why 20 years? Who made the rule that we cant go back every day, every week until we get it right?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 11:49 AM   #53 
  - Because they won't let it come to the floor in that length of time  Cleita   Nov-07-09 11:53 AM   #60 
     - Who would kill the debate? Blue Dogs & DLCers?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 11:58 AM   #65 
        - If you've been paying attention, the DLCers have already fucked over  Cleita   Nov-07-09 12:06 PM   #70 
           - And I'll bet DLCers are also propagating the "20 years" excuse too.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:17 PM   #73 
              - Are you implying that I'm a DLCer?  Cleita   Nov-07-09 12:29 PM   #85 
                 - No-I'm implying that the DLC/Blue Dogs/etc. likes & benefits from the Catch-22 they created  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:35 PM   #90 
  - Your fear is very much justified.  backscatter712   Nov-07-09 01:09 PM   #112 
     - In other words, the DLC & Blue Dogs will force us to wait 20 years if we dont do what they say.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 01:13 PM   #115 
  - Brilliant. You have your pick then between the Repub healthcare plan or the status quo.  vaberella   Nov-07-09 11:49 AM   #52 
  - Seriously, why cant we go back & work on the bill for a a few more days/weeks until we get it right?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 11:51 AM   #55 
     - The reason this struggle to pass is because of bluedogs and Repubs.  skipos   Nov-07-09 11:56 AM   #62 
        - So we admit that it is DEMOCRATS who would hold it up for 20 years- good to know.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:04 PM   #68 
  - Then we will get completely wiped out in 2010.  Zynx   Nov-07-09 11:52 AM   #58 
  - Not if we pass a better bill before the midterms. n/t  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 11:53 AM   #59 
     - A "better" bill for most DUers equals a more generous, wide-coverage public option bill, right?  TwilightGardener   Nov-07-09 12:04 PM   #69 
     - I dont like the mandate, and I dont want to wait "20 years" to remove it.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:14 PM   #72 
        - I haven't said anything about 20 years--I don't believe it has to be that way.  TwilightGardener   Nov-07-09 12:27 PM   #81 
           - So we dont have to be wiped out in 2010- we could still pass a strong bill b/f then...  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:28 PM   #84 
           - It's too late in the process to start over again.  Zynx   Nov-07-09 12:54 PM   #105 
              - Who said anything about "starting over"- I suggest we continue the momentum...  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 01:01 PM   #107 
           - Social Security, incidentally, was a lousy program compared to what it is now.  Zynx   Nov-07-09 12:54 PM   #104 
              - Good to know. I still think that we could craft a better bill than this in the next few days/weeks  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 01:02 PM   #108 
     - That is naive to say the least.  Zynx   Nov-07-09 12:35 PM   #89 
        - Our Blue Dog Masters would never allow it, and our "leadership" wont make them compromise.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:36 PM   #92 
           - So you would rather that we fail now, lose the 2010 elections, and try again some 6 election  Zynx   Nov-07-09 12:52 PM   #102 
              - No-I'd rather see some work ethic on the part of DEMS. Who said we have to fail?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:56 PM   #106 
  - Bottom line is you should not reward someone for criminal behavior  Sebastian Doyle   Nov-07-09 11:57 AM   #63 
  - The problem is that pedohiles have not been generating profits for conservatives  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 01:08 PM   #111 
  - I'm not happy with it one bit, but I think it has to pass as a first step toward  Vinca   Nov-07-09 12:20 PM   #75 
  - why even pretend to be sorry? luckily, you have no say in the matter  Aramchek   Nov-07-09 12:21 PM   #77 
  - "The public option covers practically no one." Nonsense. n/t  ProSense   Nov-07-09 12:23 PM   #78 
  - Thank god you arent voting  Egnever   Nov-07-09 12:25 PM   #79 
  - So you joined the purist bedwetters and the Party of No.  geek tragedy   Nov-07-09 12:32 PM   #87 
  - whiners never prosper. if some people don't get their pony, they don't want anyone to get one  Aramchek   Nov-07-09 12:36 PM   #91 
     - Sounds exactly like something Rush Limabugh would say. n/t  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 12:44 PM   #98 
        - you mean the OP sounds like something Rush would do.  Aramchek   Nov-07-09 01:59 PM   #138 
           - DLC talking points and Rush Limbaugh's insults sound exactly alike- that is what I meant.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 02:46 PM   #156 
              - the OP wants it to fail. you seemed to be defending this position.  Aramchek   Nov-07-09 02:58 PM   #159 
                 - I'll bet the OP would be fine with a good bill being passed before the midterms.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 03:08 PM   #160 
                    - you are silly if you think that this bill could fail, and there would be another chance for HCR  Aramchek   Nov-07-09 04:27 PM   #166 
  -'re sorry in this case....  FrenchieCat   Nov-07-09 12:48 PM   #100 
  - 12 million Americans will remain without health care under this bill, and...  IndianaGreen   Nov-07-09 01:04 PM   #109 
  - 42 million more Americans, or nearly 300 million, are covered under this bill n/t  ProSense   Nov-07-09 01:13 PM   #114 
     - No, you are forcing people to purchase insurance under this bill  IndianaGreen   Nov-07-09 01:14 PM   #117 
        - Nonsense. n/t  ProSense   Nov-07-09 01:28 PM   #125 
        - It does people no good to have insurance if  cornermouse   Nov-07-09 01:33 PM   #128 
           - You are basing your assumption on the existing system.  ProSense   Nov-07-09 01:52 PM   #135 
           - I am basing my "assumption" on experience.  cornermouse   Nov-07-09 02:08 PM   #146 
           - Good thing that the reform measures likely enables them to be able to pay it.  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 02:04 PM   #142 
              - It won't.  cornermouse   Nov-07-09 02:11 PM   #147 
        - Its forcing the industry to actually cover people, forcing them to not drop people...  phleshdef   Nov-07-09 01:31 PM   #127 
           - It forces customers into their industry, saving them from competing w/ a strong PO for customers.  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 02:35 PM   #152 
  - Y'know Cali  juno jones   Nov-07-09 01:15 PM   #118 
  - No more ore existing conditions, no more dropping coverage  Egnever   Nov-07-09 02:00 PM   #139 
  - Those two things alone will help me  prolesunited   Nov-07-09 04:11 PM   #164 
  - At what expense?  juno jones   Nov-07-09 10:31 PM   #187 
  - I Agree With Ya Cali... Dump This.. Start Over n/t  ChiciB1   Nov-07-09 04:24 PM   #165 
  - Agreed.  Bonobo   Nov-07-09 01:28 PM   #124 
  - Agreed  Cali_Democrat   Nov-07-09 01:48 PM   #134 
  - This bill is crap and if it passes, the politicians will bury this issue and we will never ...  invictus   Nov-07-09 02:08 PM   #145 
  - That's right  JVS   Nov-07-09 05:18 PM   #170 
  - That means you favor a totally pointless political death  BeyondGeography   Nov-07-09 02:37 PM   #154 
  - Why? Could we not come up with a better bill in the next few days or weeks?  Dr Fate   Nov-07-09 02:51 PM   #158 
     - No...HCR is all-consuming and leadership would conclude there would be no appetite for a do-over  BeyondGeography   Nov-07-09 03:23 PM   #161 
     - When you ask questions like this...  BklnDem75   Nov-07-09 04:43 PM   #167 
     - We can't even wait until next year because the beginning of the year must be consumed with the  ncteechur   Nov-07-09 08:31 PM   #178 
  - First AllentownJake, now you  Hutzpa   Nov-07-09 02:39 PM   #155 
  - Hey there friend  AllentownJake   Nov-07-09 07:11 PM   #173 
     - Just paying attention  Hutzpa   Nov-07-09 07:18 PM   #174 
        - You gotta list?  AllentownJake   Nov-07-09 07:21 PM   #175 
           - I don't need a list  Hutzpa   Nov-07-09 08:30 PM   #177 
  - I sure wish people had SOME idea how a bill...  YvonneCa   Nov-07-09 02:50 PM   #157 
  - I think this is a start and once it's through then we can start building  Rosa Luxemburg   Nov-07-09 03:50 PM   #163 
  - You think they are going to cobble together 218 for single payer when they can barely get 218 for  ncteechur   Nov-07-09 05:12 PM   #168 
  - I don't want it to crash, sorry.  Akoto   Nov-07-09 05:22 PM   #171 
  - As someone who has a preexisting condition I say no thanks on "waiting" for a new bill.  Jennicut   Nov-07-09 07:54 PM   #176 
  - Hello fellow preexisting condition.  vaberella   Nov-07-09 08:37 PM   #180 
  - hey vabrella!  Jennicut   Nov-07-09 08:52 PM   #181 
  - I know and understand everything you're going through.  vaberella   Nov-08-09 06:31 AM   #190 
  - A lot of those opposing the bill don't have these sorts of problems and instead  Zynx   Nov-07-09 09:19 PM   #186 
     - And it makes no sense.  vaberella   Nov-08-09 06:27 AM   #189 
  - Amazing how fellow Democrats want those of us with pre-existing conditions  dave29   Nov-08-09 12:20 PM   #195 
  - that would perhaps be convincing if we didn't have the screwed up system we have  CreekDog   Nov-07-09 08:33 PM   #179 
  - I agree.  joeycola   Nov-07-09 08:55 PM   #182 
  - Shadegg voted present at the same time the CSPAN announcer said he wouldn't.  LLStarks   Nov-07-09 09:16 PM   #185 
  - K & R  winyanstaz   Nov-08-09 08:32 AM   #192 
  - When you say fuck the legislation  POAS   Nov-08-09 09:01 AM   #194 
  - I agree with you...  ljm2002   Nov-08-09 12:44 PM   #196 

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