You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #102: It has nothing to do with the gun laws [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #71
102. It has nothing to do with the gun laws

It has to do with the high level of government regulation that they endure - the government regulations on gun laws was an example of that.

The situation in Finland is due to the catastrophic loss of their economic structure that occured with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Before the collapse of their primary market the average Finn had a house that was worth almost a million dollars. After the collapse they became almost worthless and for a while suicides were endemic in Finland. I had friends there and some of their acquaintences committed suicide with no home and no job.

The situation in Russia is also related to the collapse of the economic structure and people who were once healthy now destitute, although I have no personal experience in Russia.

Now go back to your chart and do the following comparision:

Switzerland is composed of ethnic French, German and Italians (there is no ethnic Swiss per se)

What are the comparable suicide rates between the Swiss and these three countries.

My point was simply that Switzerland is a very peculiar place (it has never joined the UN for example) and is tremendously encumbered by government regulation. Control by the local Canton is extreme in the least. Comparing their health care and here is ridiculous because they tolerate a lot more government interference in their daily life than we ever would.

At no point was I suggesting that their suicide rate had anything to do with gun regulations although it is interesting to note that while the Swiss have one of the highest indiviual gun ownership rates (due to all males being in the reserves) crime and murder by gun is very very low. Use of guns in suicides is however very high.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
  -Liberals: Prepare for Defcon: Level Batshit Crazy grantcart  Sep-08-09 10:28 PM   #0 
  - yes!  villager   Sep-08-09 10:30 PM   #1 
  - Alert! Going Guano!  GreenPartyVoter   Sep-08-09 10:31 PM   #2 
  - Interestingly guano is an excellent source of gunpowder  grantcart   Sep-08-09 10:44 PM   #5 
  - And a floor wax. And a dessert topping.  Canuckistanian   Sep-08-09 10:52 PM   #10 
  - Best laff this week!  FredStembottom   Sep-09-09 10:54 AM   #49 
  - Holy crapola!  kenfrequed   Sep-09-09 12:21 PM   #73 
  - It turns a sandwich into a banquet  RufusTFirefly   Sep-09-09 03:02 PM   #116 
  - a little of that and a pinch of sulfur, and you've got a fireball.  nemo137   Sep-09-09 01:26 AM   #28 
  - 1d6 plus fire damage against anything weak against fire....  TK421   Sep-09-09 02:51 PM   #111 
  - Unfortunately, so is Monsanto, DOW Chemicals and Bayer.  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 01:18 PM   #94 
  - I think you're referring to nitroguanidine.  cognoscere   Sep-09-09 02:38 PM   #108 
  - with froot loops  donquijoterocket   Sep-09-09 04:22 PM   #127 
  - Guano Loco? n/t  krkaufman   Sep-09-09 09:14 PM   #154 
  - WE NEED FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE ON THE MALL.  cliffordu   Sep-08-09 10:42 PM   #3 
  - fucking crickets  cliffordu   Sep-09-09 01:07 AM   #27 
  - Fucking crickets.  Wednesdays   Sep-09-09 10:37 PM   #163 
  - I will go  Voltaire   Sep-09-09 07:40 AM   #32 
  - I would go too...  bc3000   Sep-09-09 01:37 PM   #98 
  - I don't know how to organize it, but I know who does  demwing   Sep-09-09 09:33 AM   #35 
  - I WILL BE THERE if we can get SOMETHING started.  cliffordu   Sep-09-09 11:35 AM   #58 
  - We Need a General Strike  Demeter   Sep-09-09 12:18 PM   #72 
     - NOW YOU'RE TALKING!!!!  cliffordu   Sep-09-09 12:42 PM   #80 
     - YESSSS Strike  pundaint   Sep-09-09 12:46 PM   #84 
     - I'm with you Demeter, but I've been on strike since 2003  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 01:34 PM   #96 
     - AB-SO-FREAKIN-LOUTELY!!!  Left Coast2020   Sep-09-09 03:03 PM   #117 
     - that's why  druidity33   Sep-09-09 03:06 PM   #118 
     - I'm self-employed, how do I do that? /nt  jberryhill   Sep-09-09 03:09 PM   #119 
        - Take a Day Off, and Tell Your Customers Why  Demeter   Sep-09-09 05:49 PM   #137 
  - It's time to remind these useless Repukes in Democratic clothing who elected a goddamn majority.  Sebastian Doyle   Sep-08-09 10:43 PM   #4 
  - Funny!  Robber M   Sep-09-09 01:04 AM   #26 
  - Oooo I like when you talk dirty - exactly - nt  lyonn   Sep-09-09 12:42 PM   #79 
  - All true, all good, but who will lead? nt  fadedrose   Sep-08-09 10:45 PM   #6 
  - Someone get Dr Dean on the phone  demwing   Sep-09-09 09:35 AM   #36 
     - The Clinton gang is still in power from what I gather..  fadedrose   Sep-09-09 02:35 PM   #106 
  - Agree. I'm done with Clintonian triangulation. We need robust, proud liberalism.  Arugula Latte   Sep-08-09 10:46 PM   #7 
  - Are you getting tired of Obamas surge to the right?  lark   Sep-09-09 06:04 PM   #139 
  - Damn wise words.  rucky   Sep-08-09 10:48 PM   #8 
  - It's not even reasonableness. It's a matter of counting noses.  MrModerate   Sep-08-09 10:50 PM   #9 
  - I say that if the other side doesnt want to compromise for PO then we go for single payer  rhett o rick   Sep-08-09 10:54 PM   #11 
  - I agree - taking single payer off the table to early moved the central  grantcart   Sep-08-09 10:58 PM   #12 
  - Agree. nt  rhett o rick   Sep-08-09 10:59 PM   #13 
  - how about a medicare buy-in?  yodermon   Sep-09-09 11:33 AM   #57 
     - Close to 60% of the people in this country........  SergeStorms   Sep-09-09 12:10 PM   #69 
  - I TOTALLY AGREE  dotymed   Sep-09-09 12:47 PM   #85 
  - +28  inna   Sep-08-09 10:59 PM   #14 
  - k/r  ccharles000   Sep-08-09 11:05 PM   #15 
  - So I take it you're in favor of the President  ruggerson   Sep-08-09 11:07 PM   #16 
  - It would make my day  grantcart   Sep-08-09 11:46 PM   #23 
  - I think I agree with you  ruggerson   Sep-08-09 11:54 PM   #24 
  - At this point, I am.  FredStembottom   Sep-09-09 10:58 AM   #50 
  - Oh, I'm ready for that Defcon Level..  NYC_SKP   Sep-08-09 11:15 PM   #17 
  - Yes, by all means let's kill health care reform now so that we can maybe get something better  Marsala   Sep-08-09 11:25 PM   #18 
  - Or we could just settle for what they hand us and be grateful they let us play at all...  cliffordu   Sep-08-09 11:28 PM   #20 
  - THAT Is What THEY Are Counting On!! THEY Want Us To Sit Back  ChiciB1   Sep-09-09 01:14 PM   #92 
  - If it doesn't have a Public Option it is not reform  grantcart   Sep-08-09 11:46 PM   #22 
  - Your right. something might go wrong  demwing   Sep-09-09 09:39 AM   #37 
  - I'm finished listening to speeches from Obama.  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 01:53 PM   #99 
  - It won't be 10 or 20 years this time...  Chan790   Sep-09-09 11:41 AM   #59 
  - No, let's whittle it down to the point where still, the GOP won't support it  PVnRT   Sep-09-09 11:42 AM   #61 
  - Without the PO the insurance companies win big  lyonn   Sep-09-09 01:03 PM   #90 
  - Or we can take a compromise now  quakerboy   Sep-09-09 08:37 PM   #152 
  - I gave you a K&R, whiner.  cliffordu   Sep-08-09 11:27 PM   #19 
  - Aye aye, sir!  janx   Sep-08-09 11:33 PM   #21 
  - There's no need to be unreasonable: but there's no reason to "compromise" with wackos, either  struggle4progress   Sep-09-09 12:49 AM   #25 
  - If liberals do this, they will be taken even LESS seriously in the future.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 01:27 AM   #29 
  - A bunch of liberals did not do this in 2000  grantcart   Sep-09-09 02:18 AM   #30 
  - You just don't get it.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 03:38 AM   #31 
     - Grantcart has demonstrated an extraordinarily KEEN awareness of the numbers in the past  stevenleser   Sep-09-09 09:28 AM   #34 
     - Thank you, stevenleser!  FredStembottom   Sep-09-09 11:24 AM   #53 
     - Why couldn't Clinton even pass a bill in the house?  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 04:19 PM   #125 
     - You are funny!  Bluenorthwest   Sep-09-09 10:42 AM   #44 
     - Your ignorance of health care outside of the US is staggering  grantcart   Sep-09-09 10:47 AM   #45 
     - The Swiss have the highest suicide rate by far in Europe.  AlbertCat   Sep-09-09 12:16 PM   #71 
     - It has nothing to do with the gun laws  grantcart   Sep-09-09 02:17 PM   #102 
     - While attempting to deny what I'm saying, you actually support much of it.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 04:15 PM   #123 
     - I hadn't had a chance to read this outstanding OP before answering your  grantcart   Sep-09-09 10:52 AM   #48 
     - You are responding to an argument that I never made at ALL.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 04:16 PM   #124 
        - Your incremental take a tiny lit bit of good in exchange for massive  grantcart   Sep-09-09 05:03 PM   #135 
     - +1000  treestar   Sep-09-09 11:29 AM   #55 
     - THE MAJORITY OF "MEDICALLY INDUCED" BANKRUPTCIES  dotymed   Sep-09-09 01:00 PM   #89 
     - Right....  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 02:15 PM   #101 
     - Switzerland and the Netherlands regulate the HELL out of their insurance companies:  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-09-09 03:00 PM   #115 
     - Don't look now, but thats essentially what the insurance exchanges do.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 04:25 PM   #128 
        - Which plan is that?  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-09-09 04:41 PM   #131 
        - the level of regulation in Switzerland and Netherlands is much much more  grantcart   Sep-09-09 05:01 PM   #134 
        - Or not...  ProudDad   Sep-09-09 08:35 PM   #151 
     - Sorry - but YOU are the one that doesn't "get it" - and YOU will be the sorry one...  TankLV   Sep-09-09 09:58 PM   #158 
  - You must remember, please.  FredStembottom   Sep-09-09 11:07 AM   #51 
  - you wish  fascisthunter   Sep-09-09 11:41 AM   #60 
  - All we ever do is compromise...  Chan790   Sep-09-09 11:48 AM   #62 
  - Nader wasn't on the Green ticket in 2004, genius  PVnRT   Sep-09-09 11:48 AM   #64 
  - Yeah, blame us liberals because Al Gore ran a shitty campaign and chose Lieberman as  ShortnFiery   Sep-09-09 12:30 PM   #76 
  - Liberals aren't taken seriously NOW. Yes DO THIS! NO public option, no bill  digidigido   Sep-09-09 12:44 PM   #81 
  - What a bunch of Bull...  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 02:00 PM   #100 
  - And If We WIN (And We Will) We Will Be More Powerful Than We Have Been In A LOOOONG Time  Beetwasher   Sep-09-09 09:16 AM   #33 
  - Exactly right. When progressives cave on moderate positions  Tom Rinaldo   Sep-09-09 09:46 AM   #38 
  - It isn't too negotiate with the Republicans - it is to serve their corporate masters  debbierlus   Sep-09-09 10:13 AM   #41 
  - Amen & hallelujah! nt  Doremus   Sep-09-09 09:51 AM   #39 
  - Standing up for what you believe in and fighting for it isn't bat shit crazy  debbierlus   Sep-09-09 10:05 AM   #40 
  - Batshit isn't required, contextual, or applicable  TheKentuckian   Sep-09-09 10:14 AM   #42 
  - i'm already batshit, so i'm upgrading to sociopath...  Soylent Brice   Sep-09-09 10:31 AM   #43 
  - I know what you mean  grantcart   Sep-09-09 10:48 AM   #46 
     - good, then i'll have someone to keep me and me and me company. n/t  Soylent Brice   Sep-09-09 11:12 AM   #52 
  - Public Option - with no trigger! n/t  drm604   Sep-09-09 10:49 AM   #47 
  - Okay. I'm going into the Bat Cave and dust off my Bat Man suit and . . . wait,  bertman   Sep-09-09 11:29 AM   #54 
  - I think we're all pretty much  Cha   Sep-09-09 11:32 AM   #56 
  - No kidding  Peacetrain   Sep-09-09 11:49 AM   #66 
  - You mean we shouldn't settle for nothing while, at the same time, give insurance companies  valerief   Sep-09-09 11:48 AM   #63 
  - Why is expecting excellence going "bat shit crazy"?  AlbertCat   Sep-09-09 11:48 AM   #65 
  - expecting excellence is not "bat shit crazy"  grantcart   Sep-09-09 12:46 PM   #83 
  - ALBERTCAT....AMEN  dotymed   Sep-09-09 01:07 PM   #91 
  - You nailed it. It less expensive to do it right the first time.  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 02:24 PM   #104 
  - We need to get rid of the Senate. Just dump them. Kaput! nt  valerief   Sep-09-09 11:50 AM   #67 
  - dont stop there  pundaint   Sep-09-09 12:52 PM   #86 
  - Yep, K&R grantcart  SlingBlade   Sep-09-09 11:53 AM   #68 
  - Please. Today let's show a little reverence for the GOP.  12AngryBorneoWildmen   Sep-09-09 12:11 PM   #70 
  - Amen! My friends and family say I'm already half-way THERE.  ShortnFiery   Sep-09-09 12:26 PM   #74 
  - Yep - the squeaky wheel. nt  polichick   Sep-09-09 12:28 PM   #75 
  - No quarter asked nor given. It's time to go to the mat. [nt]  Jester Messiah   Sep-09-09 12:31 PM   #77 
  - My gawd I'm pissed, no more Mr. Nice Guy  lyonn   Sep-09-09 12:37 PM   #78 
  - Ticktickticktick....  nolabear   Sep-09-09 12:45 PM   #82 
  - Indeed; Its batshit crazy I,ll be if robust public option crashes. kr nt  ooglymoogly   Sep-09-09 12:52 PM   #87 
  - Okay, putting on my aluminum foil hat and clown nose.  Deep13   Sep-09-09 12:53 PM   #88 
  - Finally Grantcart, you seem to have met your Boundary condition  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 01:14 PM   #93 
  - Sometimes you hire a crook to catch a crook  grantcart   Sep-09-09 02:22 PM   #103 
     - How about hiring a smart investigator instead of a guy on the payroll of the cabal?  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 02:51 PM   #110 
  - Agreed.  zeemike   Sep-09-09 01:34 PM   #95 
  - I totally agree with you.  Vinca   Sep-09-09 01:36 PM   #97 
  - Oh yeah baby. You don't want to piss of the left.  windoe   Sep-09-09 02:31 PM   #105 
  - YUP - stop being "NICE" to Unreasonable and Irrational  katty   Sep-09-09 02:36 PM   #107 
  - I believe you are right. I hoped single payer would happen in my  Paper Roses   Sep-09-09 02:39 PM   #109 
  - Totally agree  Blasphemer   Sep-09-09 02:52 PM   #112 
  - We at DU have been batshit crazy for a long time.  Common Sense Party   Sep-09-09 02:58 PM   #113 
  - Agreed! We have to now take it to the streets  RoccoR5955   Sep-09-09 02:59 PM   #114 
  - extracurricular politics have naught to do with the democratic party  tiny elvis   Sep-09-09 03:10 PM   #120 
  - WHAT CAN WE DO?  aikanae   Sep-09-09 04:08 PM   #121 
  - a couple of things  grantcart   Sep-09-09 04:15 PM   #122 
     - K&R n/t  OneGrassRoot   Sep-09-09 04:31 PM   #130 
  - You got THAT right!  Ikkru   Sep-09-09 04:20 PM   #126 
  - I'll just watch.  Sky Masterson   Sep-09-09 04:30 PM   #129 
  - K&R  TransitJohn   Sep-09-09 04:43 PM   #132 
  - I love it!  man4allcats   Sep-09-09 05:00 PM   #133 
  - Line in the sand, litmus test, whatever.  hay rick   Sep-09-09 05:11 PM   #136 
  - Moonbat checking in...  Swamp Rat   Sep-09-09 05:59 PM   #138 
  - Thank you  varelse   Sep-09-09 06:21 PM   #140 
  - In the words of a mccain supporter..  yeswecanandwedid   Sep-09-09 06:25 PM   #141 
  - I'm always a few seconds away from Batshit crazy  proud patriot   Sep-09-09 06:29 PM   #142 
  - I am fired up and ready to go bat shit crazy! I hope I don't have to though but if I do I'm ready!  1776Forever   Sep-09-09 06:35 PM   #143 
  - now that's what I am talking about  grantcart   Sep-09-09 06:54 PM   #144 
  - I wouldn't make comparisons...  renman59   Sep-09-09 07:05 PM   #145 
  - All true, but our reps are cowards, and Glenn Beck is now King of the US  Doctor_J   Sep-09-09 07:11 PM   #146 
  - knr  wroberts189   Sep-09-09 07:13 PM   #147 
  - I got my crazy powder.  knixphan   Sep-09-09 07:17 PM   #148 
  - After the speech, it's DEFCON !  RoccoR5955   Sep-09-09 08:15 PM   #149 
  - Right on.  Clear Blue Sky   Sep-09-09 08:21 PM   #150 
  - I don't have a problem w/ that. My family already thinks  xxqqqzme   Sep-09-09 08:39 PM   #153 
  - As I see it ...  NikkiN   Sep-09-09 09:49 PM   #155 
  - yep a large show  grantcart   Sep-09-09 09:51 PM   #157 
  - Agree, but what you call batshit crazy, I call acting with intention.  earcandle   Sep-09-09 09:50 PM   #156 
  - well I don't think Defcon: Level Acting with Attention  grantcart   Sep-09-09 09:59 PM   #159 
     - what is a "defcon"? and if you are speaking to me, I said acting with Intention, not Attention.  earcandle   Sep-09-09 10:35 PM   #162 
        - defcon: Defense readiness condition - outlines the military's readiness for war  grantcart   Sep-09-09 10:50 PM   #165 
  - Here's to batshit all around!  lonestarnot   Sep-09-09 10:26 PM   #160 
  - Nice work grantcart.  midnight   Sep-09-09 10:30 PM   #161 
  - Bat Sh*t Crazy - Oh Yes!  colsohlibgal   Sep-09-09 10:46 PM   #164 
     - I am really pissed, dissappointed we are supporting this industry that makes us sick and profits  earcandle   Sep-09-09 10:53 PM   #166 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC