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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-08-09 10:28 PM
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Liberals: Prepare for Defcon: Level Batshit Crazy
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A liberal civil rights leader told me almost 40 years ago that the liberals on the committee were going to lose.

In the end we would be out manouvered and he was right.

The setting was the city's largest liberal mainline church. Booming when other churches shrank it had money and power. It stood up against the war, hunger and civil rights.

The senior pastor was leaving and the wise old attorney asked me if the other 5 liberals on the pastor seeking committee were all reasonable people. "Yes they are all reasonable".

"Well that was the problem with liberals - they are reasonable."

"Rather than losing a good thing we give a little, give a little more. All the other side has to do is to wear you down with unreasonableness.

They don't care if a good thing is lost - they are habitually unreasonable.

For Liberals to win you have to be prepared to go to Defcon: Batshit Crazy.

That's how we broke them in Selma. Wouldn't ride a bus for a year.

That's how we stopped the war, we went batshit in the street until it hurt their business. Unless you are ready to go batshit - liberals will lose in negotiations everytime."

He was right. After a year of watching them find some superficial reason to reject every progressive candidate we eventually settled on trying to find an intellectually honest conservative. After that pastor left they found somebody that was more conservative and intellectually dishonest. Then they found somebody who Billy Graham would consider too far right.

The Public Option is our compromise position.

If you have lived overseas or have talked with people who have experienced it, its hard to express how retrograde our health system is and how reasonable single payer is.

Single Payer is not a particularly liberal position.

The Conservative Parties of England, Canada and Australia all love single payer.

The Democratic Party, Single Payer and the Public Option are not wild eyed radicals and policies, they are in the middle of the developed world. This country has moved so far to the right that middle of the road seems radical.

So we have to be prepared to go all out - committ to complete batshit crazy - on the Public Option compromise.


And if that puts on the other side of the Whitehouse on this one (and I don't think it will) then we still go batshit and those of us who love the man can still love him, its business its not personal.

Going batshit now is essential if we are going to have any power in the next 7 years. If the moderates and the conservative Democrats think that we are always going to be there then they are going to take us for granted on all of the other issues that we want to advance in the future - size of the military budget - for example. Instead of trying to negotiate with us they will only be interested in negotitating with Republicans.

So even if Health Care doesn't get passed now it will be better for us in the long run.

Every once in a while liberals have to stop being reasonable and just be batshit crazy. The Public Option is one of those times.
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  -Liberals: Prepare for Defcon: Level Batshit Crazy grantcart  Sep-08-09 10:28 PM   #0 
  - yes!  villager   Sep-08-09 10:30 PM   #1 
  - Alert! Going Guano!  GreenPartyVoter   Sep-08-09 10:31 PM   #2 
  - Interestingly guano is an excellent source of gunpowder  grantcart   Sep-08-09 10:44 PM   #5 
  - And a floor wax. And a dessert topping.  Canuckistanian   Sep-08-09 10:52 PM   #10 
  - Best laff this week!  FredStembottom   Sep-09-09 10:54 AM   #49 
  - Holy crapola!  kenfrequed   Sep-09-09 12:21 PM   #73 
  - It turns a sandwich into a banquet  RufusTFirefly   Sep-09-09 03:02 PM   #116 
  - a little of that and a pinch of sulfur, and you've got a fireball.  nemo137   Sep-09-09 01:26 AM   #28 
  - 1d6 plus fire damage against anything weak against fire....  TK421   Sep-09-09 02:51 PM   #111 
  - Unfortunately, so is Monsanto, DOW Chemicals and Bayer.  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 01:18 PM   #94 
  - I think you're referring to nitroguanidine.  cognoscere   Sep-09-09 02:38 PM   #108 
  - with froot loops  donquijoterocket   Sep-09-09 04:22 PM   #127 
  - Guano Loco? n/t  krkaufman   Sep-09-09 09:14 PM   #154 
  - WE NEED FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE ON THE MALL.  cliffordu   Sep-08-09 10:42 PM   #3 
  - fucking crickets  cliffordu   Sep-09-09 01:07 AM   #27 
  - Fucking crickets.  Wednesdays   Sep-09-09 10:37 PM   #163 
  - I will go  Voltaire   Sep-09-09 07:40 AM   #32 
  - I would go too...  bc3000   Sep-09-09 01:37 PM   #98 
  - I don't know how to organize it, but I know who does  demwing   Sep-09-09 09:33 AM   #35 
  - I WILL BE THERE if we can get SOMETHING started.  cliffordu   Sep-09-09 11:35 AM   #58 
  - We Need a General Strike  Demeter   Sep-09-09 12:18 PM   #72 
     - NOW YOU'RE TALKING!!!!  cliffordu   Sep-09-09 12:42 PM   #80 
     - YESSSS Strike  pundaint   Sep-09-09 12:46 PM   #84 
     - I'm with you Demeter, but I've been on strike since 2003  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 01:34 PM   #96 
     - AB-SO-FREAKIN-LOUTELY!!!  Left Coast2020   Sep-09-09 03:03 PM   #117 
     - that's why  druidity33   Sep-09-09 03:06 PM   #118 
     - I'm self-employed, how do I do that? /nt  jberryhill   Sep-09-09 03:09 PM   #119 
        - Take a Day Off, and Tell Your Customers Why  Demeter   Sep-09-09 05:49 PM   #137 
  - It's time to remind these useless Repukes in Democratic clothing who elected a goddamn majority.  Sebastian Doyle   Sep-08-09 10:43 PM   #4 
  - Funny!  Robber M   Sep-09-09 01:04 AM   #26 
  - Oooo I like when you talk dirty - exactly - nt  lyonn   Sep-09-09 12:42 PM   #79 
  - All true, all good, but who will lead? nt  fadedrose   Sep-08-09 10:45 PM   #6 
  - Someone get Dr Dean on the phone  demwing   Sep-09-09 09:35 AM   #36 
     - The Clinton gang is still in power from what I gather..  fadedrose   Sep-09-09 02:35 PM   #106 
  - Agree. I'm done with Clintonian triangulation. We need robust, proud liberalism.  Arugula Latte   Sep-08-09 10:46 PM   #7 
  - Are you getting tired of Obamas surge to the right?  lark   Sep-09-09 06:04 PM   #139 
  - Damn wise words.  rucky   Sep-08-09 10:48 PM   #8 
  - It's not even reasonableness. It's a matter of counting noses.  MrModerate   Sep-08-09 10:50 PM   #9 
  - I say that if the other side doesnt want to compromise for PO then we go for single payer  rhett o rick   Sep-08-09 10:54 PM   #11 
  - I agree - taking single payer off the table to early moved the central  grantcart   Sep-08-09 10:58 PM   #12 
  - Agree. nt  rhett o rick   Sep-08-09 10:59 PM   #13 
  - how about a medicare buy-in?  yodermon   Sep-09-09 11:33 AM   #57 
     - Close to 60% of the people in this country........  SergeStorms   Sep-09-09 12:10 PM   #69 
  - I TOTALLY AGREE  dotymed   Sep-09-09 12:47 PM   #85 
  - +28  inna   Sep-08-09 10:59 PM   #14 
  - k/r  ccharles000   Sep-08-09 11:05 PM   #15 
  - So I take it you're in favor of the President  ruggerson   Sep-08-09 11:07 PM   #16 
  - It would make my day  grantcart   Sep-08-09 11:46 PM   #23 
  - I think I agree with you  ruggerson   Sep-08-09 11:54 PM   #24 
  - At this point, I am.  FredStembottom   Sep-09-09 10:58 AM   #50 
  - Oh, I'm ready for that Defcon Level..  NYC_SKP   Sep-08-09 11:15 PM   #17 
  - Yes, by all means let's kill health care reform now so that we can maybe get something better  Marsala   Sep-08-09 11:25 PM   #18 
  - Or we could just settle for what they hand us and be grateful they let us play at all...  cliffordu   Sep-08-09 11:28 PM   #20 
  - THAT Is What THEY Are Counting On!! THEY Want Us To Sit Back  ChiciB1   Sep-09-09 01:14 PM   #92 
  - If it doesn't have a Public Option it is not reform  grantcart   Sep-08-09 11:46 PM   #22 
  - Your right. something might go wrong  demwing   Sep-09-09 09:39 AM   #37 
  - I'm finished listening to speeches from Obama.  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 01:53 PM   #99 
  - It won't be 10 or 20 years this time...  Chan790   Sep-09-09 11:41 AM   #59 
  - No, let's whittle it down to the point where still, the GOP won't support it  PVnRT   Sep-09-09 11:42 AM   #61 
  - Without the PO the insurance companies win big  lyonn   Sep-09-09 01:03 PM   #90 
  - Or we can take a compromise now  quakerboy   Sep-09-09 08:37 PM   #152 
  - I gave you a K&R, whiner.  cliffordu   Sep-08-09 11:27 PM   #19 
  - Aye aye, sir!  janx   Sep-08-09 11:33 PM   #21 
  - There's no need to be unreasonable: but there's no reason to "compromise" with wackos, either  struggle4progress   Sep-09-09 12:49 AM   #25 
  - If liberals do this, they will be taken even LESS seriously in the future.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 01:27 AM   #29 
  - A bunch of liberals did not do this in 2000  grantcart   Sep-09-09 02:18 AM   #30 
  - You just don't get it.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 03:38 AM   #31 
     - Grantcart has demonstrated an extraordinarily KEEN awareness of the numbers in the past  stevenleser   Sep-09-09 09:28 AM   #34 
     - Thank you, stevenleser!  FredStembottom   Sep-09-09 11:24 AM   #53 
     - Why couldn't Clinton even pass a bill in the house?  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 04:19 PM   #125 
     - You are funny!  Bluenorthwest   Sep-09-09 10:42 AM   #44 
     - Your ignorance of health care outside of the US is staggering  grantcart   Sep-09-09 10:47 AM   #45 
     - The Swiss have the highest suicide rate by far in Europe.  AlbertCat   Sep-09-09 12:16 PM   #71 
     - It has nothing to do with the gun laws  grantcart   Sep-09-09 02:17 PM   #102 
     - While attempting to deny what I'm saying, you actually support much of it.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 04:15 PM   #123 
     - I hadn't had a chance to read this outstanding OP before answering your  grantcart   Sep-09-09 10:52 AM   #48 
     - You are responding to an argument that I never made at ALL.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 04:16 PM   #124 
        - Your incremental take a tiny lit bit of good in exchange for massive  grantcart   Sep-09-09 05:03 PM   #135 
     - +1000  treestar   Sep-09-09 11:29 AM   #55 
     - THE MAJORITY OF "MEDICALLY INDUCED" BANKRUPTCIES  dotymed   Sep-09-09 01:00 PM   #89 
     - Right....  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 02:15 PM   #101 
     - Switzerland and the Netherlands regulate the HELL out of their insurance companies:  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-09-09 03:00 PM   #115 
     - Don't look now, but thats essentially what the insurance exchanges do.  BzaDem   Sep-09-09 04:25 PM   #128 
        - Which plan is that?  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-09-09 04:41 PM   #131 
        - the level of regulation in Switzerland and Netherlands is much much more  grantcart   Sep-09-09 05:01 PM   #134 
        - Or not...  ProudDad   Sep-09-09 08:35 PM   #151 
     - Sorry - but YOU are the one that doesn't "get it" - and YOU will be the sorry one...  TankLV   Sep-09-09 09:58 PM   #158 
  - You must remember, please.  FredStembottom   Sep-09-09 11:07 AM   #51 
  - you wish  fascisthunter   Sep-09-09 11:41 AM   #60 
  - All we ever do is compromise...  Chan790   Sep-09-09 11:48 AM   #62 
  - Nader wasn't on the Green ticket in 2004, genius  PVnRT   Sep-09-09 11:48 AM   #64 
  - Yeah, blame us liberals because Al Gore ran a shitty campaign and chose Lieberman as  ShortnFiery   Sep-09-09 12:30 PM   #76 
  - Liberals aren't taken seriously NOW. Yes DO THIS! NO public option, no bill  digidigido   Sep-09-09 12:44 PM   #81 
  - What a bunch of Bull...  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 02:00 PM   #100 
  - And If We WIN (And We Will) We Will Be More Powerful Than We Have Been In A LOOOONG Time  Beetwasher   Sep-09-09 09:16 AM   #33 
  - Exactly right. When progressives cave on moderate positions  Tom Rinaldo   Sep-09-09 09:46 AM   #38 
  - It isn't too negotiate with the Republicans - it is to serve their corporate masters  debbierlus   Sep-09-09 10:13 AM   #41 
  - Amen & hallelujah! nt  Doremus   Sep-09-09 09:51 AM   #39 
  - Standing up for what you believe in and fighting for it isn't bat shit crazy  debbierlus   Sep-09-09 10:05 AM   #40 
  - Batshit isn't required, contextual, or applicable  TheKentuckian   Sep-09-09 10:14 AM   #42 
  - i'm already batshit, so i'm upgrading to sociopath...  Soylent Brice   Sep-09-09 10:31 AM   #43 
  - I know what you mean  grantcart   Sep-09-09 10:48 AM   #46 
     - good, then i'll have someone to keep me and me and me company. n/t  Soylent Brice   Sep-09-09 11:12 AM   #52 
  - Public Option - with no trigger! n/t  drm604   Sep-09-09 10:49 AM   #47 
  - Okay. I'm going into the Bat Cave and dust off my Bat Man suit and . . . wait,  bertman   Sep-09-09 11:29 AM   #54 
  - I think we're all pretty much  Cha   Sep-09-09 11:32 AM   #56 
  - No kidding  Peacetrain   Sep-09-09 11:49 AM   #66 
  - You mean we shouldn't settle for nothing while, at the same time, give insurance companies  valerief   Sep-09-09 11:48 AM   #63 
  - Why is expecting excellence going "bat shit crazy"?  AlbertCat   Sep-09-09 11:48 AM   #65 
  - expecting excellence is not "bat shit crazy"  grantcart   Sep-09-09 12:46 PM   #83 
  - ALBERTCAT....AMEN  dotymed   Sep-09-09 01:07 PM   #91 
  - You nailed it. It less expensive to do it right the first time.  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 02:24 PM   #104 
  - We need to get rid of the Senate. Just dump them. Kaput! nt  valerief   Sep-09-09 11:50 AM   #67 
  - dont stop there  pundaint   Sep-09-09 12:52 PM   #86 
  - Yep, K&R grantcart  SlingBlade   Sep-09-09 11:53 AM   #68 
  - Please. Today let's show a little reverence for the GOP.  12AngryBorneoWildmen   Sep-09-09 12:11 PM   #70 
  - Amen! My friends and family say I'm already half-way THERE.  ShortnFiery   Sep-09-09 12:26 PM   #74 
  - Yep - the squeaky wheel. nt  polichick   Sep-09-09 12:28 PM   #75 
  - No quarter asked nor given. It's time to go to the mat. [nt]  Jester Messiah   Sep-09-09 12:31 PM   #77 
  - My gawd I'm pissed, no more Mr. Nice Guy  lyonn   Sep-09-09 12:37 PM   #78 
  - Ticktickticktick....  nolabear   Sep-09-09 12:45 PM   #82 
  - Indeed; Its batshit crazy I,ll be if robust public option crashes. kr nt  ooglymoogly   Sep-09-09 12:52 PM   #87 
  - Okay, putting on my aluminum foil hat and clown nose.  Deep13   Sep-09-09 12:53 PM   #88 
  - Finally Grantcart, you seem to have met your Boundary condition  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 01:14 PM   #93 
  - Sometimes you hire a crook to catch a crook  grantcart   Sep-09-09 02:22 PM   #103 
     - How about hiring a smart investigator instead of a guy on the payroll of the cabal?  Grinchie   Sep-09-09 02:51 PM   #110 
  - Agreed.  zeemike   Sep-09-09 01:34 PM   #95 
  - I totally agree with you.  Vinca   Sep-09-09 01:36 PM   #97 
  - Oh yeah baby. You don't want to piss of the left.  windoe   Sep-09-09 02:31 PM   #105 
  - YUP - stop being "NICE" to Unreasonable and Irrational  katty   Sep-09-09 02:36 PM   #107 
  - I believe you are right. I hoped single payer would happen in my  Paper Roses   Sep-09-09 02:39 PM   #109 
  - Totally agree  Blasphemer   Sep-09-09 02:52 PM   #112 
  - We at DU have been batshit crazy for a long time.  Common Sense Party   Sep-09-09 02:58 PM   #113 
  - Agreed! We have to now take it to the streets  RoccoR5955   Sep-09-09 02:59 PM   #114 
  - extracurricular politics have naught to do with the democratic party  tiny elvis   Sep-09-09 03:10 PM   #120 
  - WHAT CAN WE DO?  aikanae   Sep-09-09 04:08 PM   #121 
  - a couple of things  grantcart   Sep-09-09 04:15 PM   #122 
     - K&R n/t  OneGrassRoot   Sep-09-09 04:31 PM   #130 
  - You got THAT right!  Ikkru   Sep-09-09 04:20 PM   #126 
  - I'll just watch.  Sky Masterson   Sep-09-09 04:30 PM   #129 
  - K&R  TransitJohn   Sep-09-09 04:43 PM   #132 
  - I love it!  man4allcats   Sep-09-09 05:00 PM   #133 
  - Line in the sand, litmus test, whatever.  hay rick   Sep-09-09 05:11 PM   #136 
  - Moonbat checking in...  Swamp Rat   Sep-09-09 05:59 PM   #138 
  - Thank you  varelse   Sep-09-09 06:21 PM   #140 
  - In the words of a mccain supporter..  yeswecanandwedid   Sep-09-09 06:25 PM   #141 
  - I'm always a few seconds away from Batshit crazy  proud patriot   Sep-09-09 06:29 PM   #142 
  - I am fired up and ready to go bat shit crazy! I hope I don't have to though but if I do I'm ready!  1776Forever   Sep-09-09 06:35 PM   #143 
  - now that's what I am talking about  grantcart   Sep-09-09 06:54 PM   #144 
  - I wouldn't make comparisons...  renman59   Sep-09-09 07:05 PM   #145 
  - All true, but our reps are cowards, and Glenn Beck is now King of the US  Doctor_J   Sep-09-09 07:11 PM   #146 
  - knr  wroberts189   Sep-09-09 07:13 PM   #147 
  - I got my crazy powder.  knixphan   Sep-09-09 07:17 PM   #148 
  - After the speech, it's DEFCON !  RoccoR5955   Sep-09-09 08:15 PM   #149 
  - Right on.  Clear Blue Sky   Sep-09-09 08:21 PM   #150 
  - I don't have a problem w/ that. My family already thinks  xxqqqzme   Sep-09-09 08:39 PM   #153 
  - As I see it ...  NikkiN   Sep-09-09 09:49 PM   #155 
  - yep a large show  grantcart   Sep-09-09 09:51 PM   #157 
  - Agree, but what you call batshit crazy, I call acting with intention.  earcandle   Sep-09-09 09:50 PM   #156 
  - well I don't think Defcon: Level Acting with Attention  grantcart   Sep-09-09 09:59 PM   #159 
     - what is a "defcon"? and if you are speaking to me, I said acting with Intention, not Attention.  earcandle   Sep-09-09 10:35 PM   #162 
        - defcon: Defense readiness condition - outlines the military's readiness for war  grantcart   Sep-09-09 10:50 PM   #165 
  - Here's to batshit all around!  lonestarnot   Sep-09-09 10:26 PM   #160 
  - Nice work grantcart.  midnight   Sep-09-09 10:30 PM   #161 
  - Bat Sh*t Crazy - Oh Yes!  colsohlibgal   Sep-09-09 10:46 PM   #164 
     - I am really pissed, dissappointed we are supporting this industry that makes us sick and profits  earcandle   Sep-09-09 10:53 PM   #166 

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