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Reply #3: If we were talking more than 0.00224% of Tongass perhaps I'd be concerned [View All]

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If we were talking more than 0.00224% of Tongass perhaps I'd be concerned
Part of the management of the national forest services is to oversee the use of gathering resources while ensuring that no extreme impact is occuring on the land. Tsongass was designated as a national forest back in 1902, so there has been plenty of logging within the land. But with the National Park services it's determining what can be logged to ensure that the overall impact of the National Forest is not disrupted. Will these 381acres have an impact on a 17million acre forest - I have no idea. I can't predict that and personally I'd like to understand more about the roads being created. I know that roads in forest can have major impact especially if made available to the public (exhaust + trees - not a good combination).
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  -Folks. There is a big difference between a National Forest vs. a National Park LynneSin  Jul-17-09 03:21 PM   #0 
  - do we really want to keep turning mature forests -- watersheds -- into tree farms  villager   Jul-17-09 03:23 PM   #1 
  - If we were talking more than 0.00224% of Tongass perhaps I'd be concerned  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:28 PM   #3 
  - you should be concerned, because that's what the ag dept. has been doing for years  villager   Jul-17-09 03:30 PM   #9 
  - Point of clarification:  Robb   Jul-17-09 03:33 PM   #13 
  - yet none in the wild area where they are going to put new ones  villager   Jul-17-09 03:49 PM   #24 
  - Tell me how much Ancient Virgin Old growth is there in National Parks?  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 07:26 AM   #91 
     - Which ones?  Robb   Jul-18-09 09:11 AM   #99 
        - Whats salient about the question ? All of them.  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 11:29 AM   #100 
        - Excellent find.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-20-09 11:41 AM   #152 
  - Two things  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:38 PM   #17 
     - except that this comes on top of okaying wolf kills, mountaintop removals, etc.  villager   Jul-17-09 03:53 PM   #28 
        - I know mountaintop removals were one of the first Bush rules that Obama overturned  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 04:06 PM   #41 
  - Do you ahve any idea how deceptive that percentage is?  joeybee12   Jul-17-09 03:48 PM   #23 
  - exactly -- no one thinks in ecosystem/watershed terms  villager   Jul-17-09 03:50 PM   #25 
  - I know there is more to be read about this  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:55 PM   #29 
     - I'm not sure, Lynne, that just because our gov't has been doing something since the late 19th  villager   Jul-17-09 04:02 PM   #36 
     - Yes, but we're talking about a rain forest, one of the last in the world...  joeybee12   Jul-17-09 04:29 PM   #54 
  - Actually there is a clean-up plan with it  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:52 PM   #26 
  - you'll note that citation says this will happen in a designated roadless area  villager   Jul-17-09 04:03 PM   #38 
  - I'm not saying it's perfect - just sharing the facts with everyone  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 04:04 PM   #40 
     - oh, we have more than environmental decision to judge his administration on  villager   Jul-17-09 04:07 PM   #42 
     - How much Ancient Old Growth is there in National Parks?  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 07:32 AM   #94 
  - Betcha they are gonna replant it with a single species of fast-growing  kestrel91316   Jul-18-09 11:37 AM   #102 
  - there already are logging roads close to the area because adjacent areas were  quiller4   Jul-17-09 04:34 PM   #55 
  - Done properly  fifthoffive   Jul-20-09 11:17 AM   #150 
  - The percentage may be small,  bvar22   Jul-17-09 08:11 PM   #72 
  - Actually, I agree. The precedent is not good, but we're talking about a very small  LittleBlue   Jul-17-09 08:41 PM   #76 
  - Well almost every environmental group  Mojorabbit   Jul-17-09 11:13 PM   #78 
  - +1, villager.  Enthusiast   Jul-20-09 01:33 AM   #141 
     - It is a valid choice  fifthoffive   Jul-20-09 11:13 AM   #149 
        - It sucks to high heaven.  Enthusiast   Jul-20-09 04:39 PM   #154 
  - thank you lynn, for settingthe record straight.  dionysus   Jul-17-09 03:23 PM   #2 
  - Just so you know I do respect those who still have issues  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:29 PM   #5 
  - Yes, much thanks is due here.  jkshaw   Jul-17-09 03:37 PM   #16 
  - "to see people scream that Obama is worthless, shouldn't be re-elected ..."  redqueen   Jul-17-09 03:29 PM   #4 
  - That's true but for those on the fence I like to share facts  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:29 PM   #8 
     - And I appreciate your doing it...  redqueen   Jul-17-09 03:37 PM   #15 
     - Thanks, Lynne, it is  Cha   Jul-17-09 03:59 PM   #35 
  - It's not the logging per se that I'm against  Blue_In_AK   Jul-17-09 03:29 PM   #6 
  - I'm still concerned on that one  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:31 PM   #10 
  - Doesn't matter... we're to cut down NO trees ever again  scheming daemons   Jul-17-09 03:29 PM   #7 
  - The Wilderness Area situation in Tongass is even more complex.  Robb   Jul-17-09 03:32 PM   #11 
  - 17 million acres and there has been logging in Tongass since 1950  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:40 PM   #19 
  - ...Of which 5 acres are Wilderness  Robb   Jul-17-09 07:49 PM   #67 
  - "17 million acres" is deceptive, you shouldn't use that number  noamnety   Jul-18-09 01:16 AM   #87 
  - "good habitat" isn't one thing.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-18-09 05:03 PM   #129 
  - They have been logging the Tongass long before the 50s  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 07:22 AM   #90 
  - We have specific exceptions to a lot of the Lower 48 rules  Blue_In_AK   Jul-17-09 03:53 PM   #27 
  - Interesting statistics  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:58 PM   #30 
     - Oh, no, I didn't think you were cheerleading.  Blue_In_AK   Jul-17-09 04:10 PM   #47 
        - I'll read about that when I get home  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 04:15 PM   #50 
  - The Designated Wilderness are in Higher Elevations containing,  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 11:46 AM   #103 
  - Sustainable logging, no clear cuts  sandnsea   Jul-17-09 03:32 PM   #12 
  - That bothers me  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:59 PM   #33 
  - Clearcutting can sometimes be a better option  XemaSab   Jul-20-09 05:00 AM   #142 
  - Burn it all down. Use is all up. Wheeeeee!  Jakes Progress   Jul-17-09 03:36 PM   #14 
  - You do realize that trees are a "renewable resource", right?  scheming daemons   Jul-17-09 03:45 PM   #21 
  - You do realize what "old growth" means, right?  Jakes Progress   Jul-17-09 03:59 PM   #32 
  - Having spent most of my childhood in the Cascade mountains I can tell  grantcart   Jul-18-09 12:19 AM   #80 
  - you do realize that "forests," in the profoundest sense, are not?  villager   Jul-17-09 04:08 PM   #44 
  - Trees *can* be grown like cabbages and corn.  boppers   Jul-17-09 04:23 PM   #53 
     - you have a brilliant future in store for you at Weyerhauser, then  villager   Jul-17-09 04:55 PM   #61 
        - Entire ecosystems can be destroyed.  boppers   Jul-17-09 05:01 PM   #62 
           - yes -- but I wouldn't want to view wilderness the same way  villager   Jul-17-09 10:53 PM   #77 
  - While it's true that trees are renewable, old growth forests take hundreds of years to grow.  Arkansas Granny   Jul-17-09 04:09 PM   #45 
     - Pine and fur don't grow for hundreds of years. They grow a few decades  grantcart   Jul-18-09 12:20 AM   #81 
        - Forests have a finite life span  Kaleva   Jul-18-09 01:10 AM   #86 
        - Wow. Who taught you that?  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 01:37 PM   #111 
  - Wow, interesting that most of these forests are still intact since 1891,  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:47 PM   #22 
     - Gosh. Let's cut 'em down then.  Jakes Progress   Jul-17-09 03:58 PM   #31 
     - Since 1891 we've had plenty of democrats and republicans  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 04:03 PM   #39 
     - What has that to do with the subject/  Jakes Progress   Jul-17-09 07:00 PM   #64 
        - Nothing, it has to do with what I replied to  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 07:16 PM   #66 
     - Rec this post.  TBF   Jul-22-09 08:50 AM   #155 
     - that must be why large wildlife has "thrived" since then, I guess...  villager   Jul-17-09 04:16 PM   #51 
  - I am against public land being used for provate profit. Especially  tekisui   Jul-17-09 03:38 PM   #18 
  - But you do understand the purpose of the National Forest is to monitor resource gathering  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 03:44 PM   #20 
  - I recognize the difference.  tekisui   Jul-17-09 03:59 PM   #34 
     - I definately agree with your 2nd sentence  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 04:08 PM   #43 
     - I use public roads for private profit  Kaleva   Jul-17-09 08:00 PM   #71 
        - Fascist pig. Build your own roads.  anonymous171   Jul-18-09 12:03 PM   #107 
  - Better it all be in private hands  sandnsea   Jul-17-09 04:03 PM   #37 
  - Timber companies with private holdings are often better resource stewards  XemaSab   Jul-20-09 05:04 AM   #143 
  - National parks and wildneresses are intended to be pristine ecosystems.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-18-09 04:59 PM   #128 
  - Also, it is not, as some have claimed, the last temperate rainforest in the country  jmondine   Jul-17-09 04:09 PM   #46 
  - It would be nice if Obama turned Tongass into a National Park  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 04:13 PM   #48 
  - Rafting down the Hoh river was awesome. Rec'd to everybody.  BlooInBloo   Jul-17-09 04:47 PM   #58 
  - Redwood country is a temperate rainforest too  XemaSab   Jul-20-09 05:06 AM   #144 
  - As I mentioned in a previous thread, I don't see how this action reconciles with Obama's  Arkansas Granny   Jul-17-09 04:13 PM   #49 
  - Only for that fiscal year  Kaleva   Jul-17-09 07:55 PM   #69 
  - I'm not that well versed on this issue and your explanation is very detailed.  vaberella   Jul-17-09 04:19 PM   #52 
  - For more from the original story, see treegirl's comments....  BlooInBloo   Jul-17-09 04:39 PM   #57 
     - Yes, I read them yesterday. n/t  vaberella   Jul-17-09 07:51 PM   #68 
  - But it's fun to ignore those facts, if all you want to do it whine about Obama,  BlooInBloo   Jul-17-09 04:36 PM   #56 
  - I saw references to "Obummer" and "bots" in that thread  AspenRose   Jul-17-09 04:50 PM   #59 
     - Of course. And those who claim to be "legitimate critics" just stand by and watch it happen...  BlooInBloo   Jul-17-09 04:55 PM   #60 
  - Can we separate the issues?  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-17-09 05:29 PM   #63 
  - OMG what a great read  LynneSin   Jul-17-09 07:10 PM   #65 
  - From the timber industry view  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 01:58 PM   #115 
  - Good info!  Kaleva   Jul-17-09 07:58 PM   #70 
  - also another point on clearcutting and age is the fact that  grantcart   Jul-18-09 12:23 AM   #82 
  - The Tongass is a Rain forest , No fires there. and if they have fires  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 12:15 PM   #109 
  - Fires are by definition clear cut events?  XemaSab   Jul-20-09 05:09 AM   #145 
  - I remember reading a little of the business side of it  noamnety   Jul-18-09 01:37 AM   #88 
  - Clear cutting is why a 35 year old tree doesn't mature  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 01:58 PM   #114 
     - Weyerhaueser, the local governments who own forests, friends in fisheries & habitat restoration...  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-18-09 04:07 PM   #125 
  - I see the results of clear cuts on a regular basis  Bluenorthwest   Jul-17-09 08:17 PM   #73 
  - I see it often myself  Kaleva   Jul-17-09 08:22 PM   #74 
     - They also degrade water quality and destroy fish habitat  depakid   Jul-18-09 07:32 AM   #93 
     - and in 10 more years they're toothpicks  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 02:09 PM   #117 
  - This is a great disappointment  Raine   Jul-17-09 08:28 PM   #75 
  - But you do understand that this is what the National Forests are for  LynneSin   Jul-18-09 08:31 AM   #98 
  - Also consider that he SAVED 2.6 MILLION acres in Oregon.  johnaries   Jul-18-09 12:13 AM   #79 
  - Somene in that thread pointed out this is deceptive.  noamnety   Jul-18-09 01:48 AM   #89 
  - NO, he definitely "saved" it. It was designated to be cut  johnaries   Jul-18-09 11:54 AM   #104 
  - He ended WOPR  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 01:38 PM   #112 
  - How much Ancient Old Growth is there left in Oregon? Try ...  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 08:01 AM   #95 
     - WRONG! Check your facts before you spew. nt  johnaries   Jul-18-09 11:57 AM   #105 
        - Ok snarky guy from Nashville Where is Oregons Old Growth?  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 12:17 PM   #110 
           - *sigh*  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 01:41 PM   #113 
           - I live on the planet Earth , Just because there are a few small groves  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 02:59 PM   #120 
              - Another logger  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 03:49 PM   #123 
                 - You seem to be reading something in my post that I'm not advocating  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 06:22 PM   #130 
                 - The OP was stating that because the Tongass is a National Forest  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 07:03 PM   #131 
                    - You said there is no Old Growth in Oregon  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 08:36 PM   #132 
                    - National parks AND protected wilderness areas.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-19-09 12:49 PM   #133 
                       - Neither contains Temperate Rain Forest, the Tongass is Unique.  bahrbearian   Jul-19-09 09:48 PM   #135 
                          - No, never. Only place I've been to in Alaska is Fairbanks.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-19-09 10:13 PM   #137 
                             - Misty fjords is called the Yosemite of the North  bahrbearian   Jul-19-09 10:35 PM   #138 
                                - Are you sure you're not thinking of Glacier Bay?  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-19-09 10:57 PM   #139 
                                   - Most of the forest consists of old-growth timber stands undisturbed by man.  bahrbearian   Jul-20-09 08:10 AM   #147 
                                      - Here are some links  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-20-09 09:33 AM   #148 
                                         - So ask your self having never been there why are there no roads  bahrbearian   Jul-20-09 11:26 AM   #151 
           - OK, to be honest I've never been to Oregon - BUT  johnaries   Jul-18-09 02:30 PM   #119 
              - From your Wikipedia Post  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 03:03 PM   #121 
                 - OK, I don't know anything about the Central Cascades. What  johnaries   Jul-18-09 03:21 PM   #122 
                    - There is a ton of Old Growth in Oregon  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 03:51 PM   #124 
                       - Me either. Unless he's trying to sidetrack us?  johnaries   Jul-18-09 04:46 PM   #127 
  - Have you ever been to the Tongass?  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 12:40 AM   #83 
  - They build ski resorts on Virgin Old Growth, wow thats news.  bahrbearian   Jul-18-09 12:43 AM   #84 
  - Spoken like a true east-coaster  jclincali   Jul-18-09 12:53 AM   #85 
  - No, spoken like someone who read what the function of National Forests are  LynneSin   Jul-18-09 08:25 AM   #97 
  - You obviously hold a different view from those who care about pristine areas.  Honeycombe8   Jul-18-09 07:31 AM   #92 
  - I know what the damage is done with logging  LynneSin   Jul-18-09 08:22 AM   #96 
  - Clearcutting, except in very small areas, is environmentally irresponsible.  kestrel91316   Jul-18-09 11:33 AM   #101 
  - Ski Resorts do more damage?  Honeycombe8   Jul-18-09 12:00 PM   #106 
  - Who is fighting against ski resorts?  sandnsea   Jul-18-09 02:01 PM   #116 
  - K&R. nt  anonymous171   Jul-18-09 12:04 PM   #108 
  - Yeah, one's for sale and the other isn't - Yet. nt  Umbral   Jul-18-09 02:10 PM   #118 
  - It's not the logging I'm against, it's the clear-cutting.  Odin2005   Jul-18-09 04:36 PM   #126 
  - Techniques that are good in one place are not necessarily good in every place.  lumberjack_jeff   Jul-19-09 01:02 PM   #134 
  - why don't we pave paradise and put up a parking lot  natrat   Jul-19-09 10:09 PM   #136 
  - Good point Lynne  CreekDog   Jul-20-09 12:30 AM   #140 
  - Thanks for posting this  XemaSab   Jul-20-09 05:19 AM   #146 
  - Thank for bringing FACTS to this matter  SpartanDem   Jul-20-09 11:56 AM   #153 
 

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