killbotfactory
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Tue Jun-30-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
| 32. People should have the same protections regardless of whether they are married or not |
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I don't think marriage should give people any special benefits or protection. Since it does, it is only fair to extend those benefits and rights to all committed couples.
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| -Must "representative" democracy be the only valid type? |
Ken Burch |
Jun-29-09 10:00 PM |
#0 |
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the worst that can happen is freedom? I doubt that. |
cali |
Jun-29-09 10:07 PM |
#1 |
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I wasn't necessarily saying we need to abolish Congress |
Ken Burch |
Jun-29-09 10:14 PM |
#5 |
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the problem is politicians represent those paying their paycheck mostly that means big money |
stevebreeze |
Jun-29-09 10:08 PM |
#2 |
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I think that's the most important thing |
cali |
Jun-29-09 10:18 PM |
#8 |
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We all envy you on that. |
Ken Burch |
Jun-29-09 10:29 PM |
#10 |
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In a country where the upper classes control |
hughee99 |
Jun-29-09 10:12 PM |
#3 |
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Then we need to learn to use the new media forms even more to counterract that. |
Ken Burch |
Jun-29-09 10:18 PM |
#7 |
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I agree... |
hughee99 |
Jun-29-09 10:30 PM |
#11 |
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More referendums! Yes! Lets ban gays from walking on the sidewalk while we are at it |
Oregone |
Jun-29-09 10:13 PM |
#4 |
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Leaving decisions in the hands of an elite hasn't protected gays. |
Ken Burch |
Jun-29-09 10:17 PM |
#6 |
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Recently it has, much more often then when the people have taken a crack at it. |
Oregone |
Jun-29-09 10:25 PM |
#9 |
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Then I'd agree that it should be wrong to take away someone's individual rights through referenda |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 11:16 AM |
#27 |
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well, that's patently not true in CA- where the elites legalized marriage equality |
cali |
Jun-29-09 10:36 PM |
#12 |
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Hamilton to Jefferson: "Your people, sir, are a vicious beast". |
Odin2005 |
Jun-29-09 11:23 PM |
#17 |
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The real problem is that the state is allowed to rule over these matters to begin with. |
killbotfactory |
Jun-30-09 12:34 AM |
#21 |
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"People should be free to enter into any kind of consensual relationship they want" |
Oregone |
Jun-30-09 08:23 AM |
#22 |
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People should have the same protections regardless of whether they are married or not |
killbotfactory |
Jun-30-09 01:32 PM |
#32 |
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Democracy doesn't necessarily mean majority rule. |
killbotfactory |
Jun-30-09 12:29 AM |
#20 |
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The French Revolution got rid of those elites, and... |
TreasonousBastard |
Jun-29-09 10:47 PM |
#13 |
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Well, actually, Cromwell aligned himself with a lot of aristocrats against the king |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 10:58 AM |
#24 |
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Weak institutions such as "community councils" tend to produce autocracy |
Hippo_Tron |
Jun-29-09 10:58 PM |
#14 |
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The community councils in China and Libya are weak because those countries are police states |
Ken Burch |
Jun-29-09 11:20 PM |
#16 |
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Ghaddafi and Mao governed under the premise that the people are represented... |
Hippo_Tron |
Jun-29-09 11:31 PM |
#18 |
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You are making a lot of big assumptions, here. |
Odin2005 |
Jun-29-09 11:20 PM |
#15 |
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Would you agree |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 11:19 AM |
#28 |
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I am for PR in the Senate, The House whold stay the same but would use instant runoff. |
Odin2005 |
Jun-30-09 02:31 PM |
#38 |
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Well, since each state has only two senators it'd need to be IRV for that |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 02:35 PM |
#39 |
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Good point! |
Odin2005 |
Jun-30-09 02:58 PM |
#47 |
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Anyway, I apologize for having referenced it at all. |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 02:59 PM |
#48 |
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No problem! |
Odin2005 |
Jun-30-09 03:06 PM |
#49 |
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There are better solutions, the problem has always been dealing with those already in power |
killbotfactory |
Jun-30-09 12:25 AM |
#19 |
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Representative democracy works far better than direct democracy. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Jun-30-09 09:42 AM |
#23 |
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With direct democracy, you end up with California |
scheming daemons |
Jun-30-09 11:10 AM |
#25 |
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Well, I was coupling the referenda thing with campaign spending limits |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 11:15 AM |
#26 |
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I'm not sure you're correct about Vietnam |
Hippo_Tron |
Jun-30-09 11:48 AM |
#29 |
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Well, a referenda would've brought to the polls a large group of voters |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 12:26 PM |
#30 |
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Well, the public re-elected him with 60% of the vote in 1972 |
Hippo_Tron |
Jun-30-09 01:57 PM |
#34 |
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In 1972, Nixon didn't run as the "keep the war going" candidate |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 02:14 PM |
#35 |
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Not very, because Mao brought his forces into the Taiwan Strait before they could |
Hippo_Tron |
Jun-30-09 02:24 PM |
#36 |
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So, basically, they put their leashes back on and went straight home. |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 02:27 PM |
#37 |
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It's kind of like they took the dog out of the cage and then put it on an invisible leash |
Hippo_Tron |
Jun-30-09 02:42 PM |
#41 |
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The whole first paragraph of that post gives me the image |
Ken Burch |
Jul-01-09 01:18 AM |
#51 |
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Dulles was a fucking lunatic! |
Odin2005 |
Jun-30-09 02:44 PM |
#43 |
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A lunatic who represented pro-Nazi German corporations as a corporate lawyer. |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 02:47 PM |
#44 |
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We are still living with the ramifications of the Dulles brothers' foreign policy |
Hippo_Tron |
Jun-30-09 02:48 PM |
#45 |
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Humphrey was in no way on the "extreme right". |
Odin2005 |
Jun-30-09 02:39 PM |
#40 |
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The forces that imposed Humphrey were on the party's extreme right |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 02:44 PM |
#42 |
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You are confusing "Hawk" with "Extreme Right" |
Odin2005 |
Jun-30-09 02:51 PM |
#46 |
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It wasn't just liberal "hawks". It was the Southern delegations |
Ken Burch |
Jun-30-09 07:41 PM |
#50 |
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The Honduran and Venezuelan situations point to the most difficult puzzle of constitutional theory |
HamdenRice |
Jun-30-09 12:40 PM |
#31 |
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America is a representative oligarchy, not a representative democracy. |
invictus |
Jun-30-09 01:41 PM |
#33 |
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Yeah! Or Soviets! ("Workers' Councils") -- |
smalll |
Jul-01-09 02:48 AM |
#52 |
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The Soviets didn't CAUSE Stalinism. And a conventional parliament couldn't have stopped it. |
Ken Burch |
Jul-01-09 08:11 PM |
#53 |
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When utopian ideologues win a revolution totalitarianism is inevitable. |
Odin2005 |
Jul-01-09 11:25 PM |
#54 |
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The Marxist-Leninists who took over in Russia always presented their ideology as NON-utopian |
Ken Burch |
Jul-01-09 11:33 PM |
#55 |
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Read "The Open Society and It's Enemies" by Karl Popper. |
Odin2005 |
Jul-01-09 11:42 PM |
#56 |
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I'm not a Marxist(although I do think Marx had some valid observations) |
Ken Burch |
Jul-02-09 12:45 AM |
#58 |
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I agree. |
Odin2005 |
Jul-02-09 08:15 AM |
#59 |
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"Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." |
BlooInBloo |
Jul-02-09 12:13 AM |
#57 |
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