CTyankee
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Wed May-27-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
| 21. I say "flaws" because I can't understand how it can be that no black firefighter |
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could make the cut. These weren't inexperienced firefighters. All had been tested and were working firefighters at the time; this was a test for promotion not for hiring in the first place. I have heard the argument from the black firefighters association that a more valid test would have included simulation as well as oral and written tests. The association asserts that there are such tests being used successfully in cities now.
I don't know whether the test being under seal was a "covering their ass" situation or not...
But let me ask you this: don't you find it odd that no black firefighter could score as well as the white firefighters did? Do we just assume that the black firefighters didn't study hard? Are black firefighters just "lazy" and/or not as intelligent as white firefighters?
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| -Can someone please help educate me about the New Haven firefighter case? |
OneGrassRoot |
May-26-09 08:12 PM |
#0 |
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Did the city's attorney review this test before it was given? |
tularetom |
May-26-09 08:22 PM |
#1 |
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See, THAT would make sense.... |
OneGrassRoot |
May-26-09 08:29 PM |
#2 |
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I read today that the test was created by an outside contractor that specilized |
amandabeech |
May-26-09 11:26 PM |
#8 |
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Wikipedia link |
NYC_SKP |
May-26-09 08:41 PM |
#3 |
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Thanks! :) n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
May-26-09 08:42 PM |
#4 |
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Another informative article here: |
NYC_SKP |
May-26-09 08:46 PM |
#5 |
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That is a good one. Thank you. |
OneGrassRoot |
May-26-09 08:51 PM |
#6 |
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I'm amazed at the cost of the consultant's services. |
Moosepoop |
May-28-09 09:42 AM |
#54 |
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Just jumping into this, |
elleng |
May-26-09 09:00 PM |
#7 |
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This case is fascinating to me for many reasons. I grew up a few towns away from New Haven. |
Jennicut |
May-26-09 11:45 PM |
#9 |
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Wouldn't the test be on the properties of fire, method and theory |
JohnnyBoots |
May-27-09 08:15 AM |
#10 |
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You voiced my thoughts perfectly. Thanks. n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
May-27-09 08:26 AM |
#12 |
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It is unfortunate that this case will be used as a molitov cocktail by the Right. It is pretty |
JohnnyBoots |
May-27-09 08:30 AM |
#13 |
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I just posted more thoughts about this in a Rush thread... |
OneGrassRoot |
May-27-09 08:33 AM |
#14 |
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It is interesting that they threw out the test because of too many whites and not enough |
JohnnyBoots |
May-27-09 08:49 AM |
#15 |
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Literacy tests |
fugop |
May-27-09 09:06 AM |
#19 |
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Didn't a dyslexic firefighter do well? It seems if special arrangements |
JohnnyBoots |
May-27-09 09:13 AM |
#20 |
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Yes |
fugop |
May-27-09 09:22 AM |
#22 |
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Do a little more research on the case. You will see local politics had a pretty heavy hand in the |
JohnnyBoots |
May-27-09 09:41 AM |
#24 |
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He paid $1000 to study for it though... |
Blue_Roses |
May-27-09 11:15 AM |
#30 |
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It is my understanding that in the previous test there was a black firefighter who |
Raineyb |
May-27-09 01:25 PM |
#33 |
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The test is "under seal" by the court, in the first place. |
CTyankee |
May-27-09 08:52 AM |
#16 |
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Thanks for that insight, CTyankee!!! |
OneGrassRoot |
May-27-09 09:01 AM |
#17 |
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What kind of 'Flaws' working against black firefighters are you talking |
JohnnyBoots |
May-27-09 09:01 AM |
#18 |
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I say "flaws" because I can't understand how it can be that no black firefighter |
CTyankee |
May-27-09 09:17 AM |
#21 |
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I agree the test was outdated and I |
JohnnyBoots |
May-27-09 09:40 AM |
#23 |
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Public schools in New Haven are NOT the greatest. |
CTyankee |
May-27-09 09:52 AM |
#25 |
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There were black firefighters who passed the test |
DatManFromNawlins |
May-27-09 10:05 PM |
#48 |
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The scores of the black firefighters were lower than the whites so the top scorers |
CTyankee |
May-28-09 12:53 PM |
#59 |
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The Case Illustrates That She Is Not An Activist Judge |
jberryhill |
May-27-09 08:24 AM |
#11 |
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Any organization who uses such a test would do the same as the city of New Haven, |
izzybeans |
May-27-09 10:29 AM |
#26 |
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Well, due diligence would have required the mayor to find a test that had been used before |
CTyankee |
May-27-09 01:21 PM |
#31 |
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You are asking to correct something that has no bearing on the legal aspect of the case and has the |
izzybeans |
May-27-09 03:55 PM |
#34 |
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You misunderstand my argument. I am blaming the mayor for the mess to begin with. |
CTyankee |
May-27-09 04:25 PM |
#35 |
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I love when I argue with someone I agree with. |
izzybeans |
May-29-09 02:24 PM |
#68 |
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The way questions are asked can make assumptions about common experiences that are not valid. |
TimesSquareCowboy |
May-27-09 10:44 AM |
#27 |
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Some tests use simulation. This one did not. |
CTyankee |
May-27-09 01:24 PM |
#32 |
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And the context of fire departments should not be ignored. |
TimesSquareCowboy |
May-27-09 10:49 AM |
#28 |
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Seriously? In NYC? |
OneGrassRoot |
May-27-09 11:10 AM |
#29 |
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Reverse racism |
sniffa |
May-27-09 04:26 PM |
#36 |
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I just wish I could see the test and make up my own mind on what I think of it. |
rvablue |
May-27-09 04:44 PM |
#37 |
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My money is on that it is sealed because the Mayor is covering his ass. |
JohnnyBoots |
May-28-09 10:17 AM |
#55 |
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"how one constructs a technical test that favors or discriminates against any race" |
boppers |
May-27-09 04:53 PM |
#38 |
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Thanks for that! :) n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
May-27-09 04:59 PM |
#39 |
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There was no evidence presented that the test was biased, |
seaglass |
May-27-09 05:35 PM |
#40 |
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Well, there was the court's decision, and how the decision is now being framed. |
boppers |
May-27-09 06:21 PM |
#42 |
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Sorry, I wasn't looking at this case in the context of the SCOTUS |
seaglass |
May-27-09 07:44 PM |
#44 |
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Interesting link! |
boppers |
May-27-09 10:43 PM |
#50 |
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Thank you! n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
May-28-09 08:14 AM |
#52 |
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How do you know... |
MellowDem |
May-27-09 07:55 PM |
#45 |
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Well, I know you're not a golfer. |
boppers |
May-27-09 09:54 PM |
#47 |
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About the golf course... |
MellowDem |
May-28-09 10:19 AM |
#56 |
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Shoe on the other foot test: Imagine it were the other way around . . . |
Empowerer |
May-28-09 11:17 AM |
#57 |
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Well, if that had been the case... |
MellowDem |
May-28-09 11:57 AM |
#58 |
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Do you really believe |
Empowerer |
May-28-09 02:09 PM |
#60 |
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I was talking generally |
MellowDem |
May-28-09 09:25 PM |
#61 |
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"The fact that none made the the score isn't surprising given the numbers . . . " |
Empowerer |
May-28-09 10:17 PM |
#62 |
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I disagree |
MellowDem |
May-29-09 11:40 AM |
#67 |
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Those are not racially bias questions |
Rwalsh |
May-27-09 08:01 PM |
#46 |
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That really depends on one's ideas about class, and race. |
boppers |
May-27-09 10:12 PM |
#49 |
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So the only people that can pass this test is |
Thothmes |
May-29-09 05:59 AM |
#65 |
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The firefighters have a website: |
Feron |
May-27-09 06:02 PM |
#41 |
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Here's an article I came across today that might help... |
babylonsister |
May-27-09 07:01 PM |
#43 |
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Here's another... |
babylonsister |
May-28-09 07:42 AM |
#51 |
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Thanks for all this, babylonsister. :) n/t |
OneGrassRoot |
May-28-09 08:14 AM |
#53 |
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The GOP hate-machine tries to give you the impression... |
Puzzler |
May-28-09 10:48 PM |
#63 |
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Isn't all this beside the point? By not agreeing to hear the case, the appellate court |
wiggs |
May-28-09 11:51 PM |
#64 |
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I agree with you but the other side would say "Why didn't she vote to overturn and |
CTyankee |
May-29-09 07:19 AM |
#66 |
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