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Reply #16: The test is "under seal" by the court, in the first place. [View All]

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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-27-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. The test is "under seal" by the court, in the first place.
Secondly, as I live in New Haven my perspective is a bit different. I am no expert on this case but a lot of this goes to Mayor John DeStefano's longtime relationship with the Rev. Boise Kimber, a quasi leader in the black community. DeStefano has long been apologist for Kimber who is not a very gooe example of a "leader." Kimber once was given some cash for safekeeping by an elderly black woman who had scrimped and saved for her own burial expenses to spare her kids the expense. That very day Kimber paid his daughter's tuition payment at Hopkins Country Day School here in New Haven IN CASH, a kinda strange thing for a parent to do at this exclusive school. Nothing has been really proven, of course, but a LOT of people had problems with it. It is widely suspected that Kimber was threatening to organize a huge backlash in the black community against DeStefano in this year's mayoralty campaign if the test was not thrown out.

I supported John DeStefano in his bids for mayor and in 06 for governor, which he lost. Recently, he has tried to "privatize" the janitors working for the city by demanding that AFSCME take them out of the union in return for saving 27 jobs of AFSCME members at City Hall. The union rightfully refused and 27 people lost their jobs, mainly in areas such as Elderly Services, Family Services, homeless and other Community Services -- in other words, taking away support systems coordination and maintenance for the poorest, youngest and most politically vulnerable segments of our city's population. God only knows what DeStefano would have done to the janitors if he was successful in getting rid of their union protections.

I can no longer support DeStefano and will vote for the only candidate to oppose him, the Green Party candidate (Republicans won't even show up for this one).

I hold DeStefano responsible for this test situation. He did not do due diligence in getting a test that had been used elsewhere with racially balanced results.

What may be forgotten in all this is that the test they used did not serve the white firefighters either. I have no doubt that they studied hard, but if the test had some flaws in it that would work against the black firefighters then there was the possibility that the test results were doomed. So they would be set up for a no win situation. However, since we cannot see the test, how do we know?
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  -Can someone please help educate me about the New Haven firefighter case? OneGrassRoot  May-26-09 08:12 PM   #0 
  - Did the city's attorney review this test before it was given?  tularetom   May-26-09 08:22 PM   #1 
  - See, THAT would make sense....  OneGrassRoot   May-26-09 08:29 PM   #2 
  - I read today that the test was created by an outside contractor that specilized  amandabeech   May-26-09 11:26 PM   #8 
  - Wikipedia link  NYC_SKP   May-26-09 08:41 PM   #3 
  - Thanks! :) n/t  OneGrassRoot   May-26-09 08:42 PM   #4 
  - Another informative article here:  NYC_SKP   May-26-09 08:46 PM   #5 
  - That is a good one. Thank you.  OneGrassRoot   May-26-09 08:51 PM   #6 
  - I'm amazed at the cost of the consultant's services.  Moosepoop   May-28-09 09:42 AM   #54 
  - Just jumping into this,  elleng   May-26-09 09:00 PM   #7 
  - This case is fascinating to me for many reasons. I grew up a few towns away from New Haven.  Jennicut   May-26-09 11:45 PM   #9 
  - Wouldn't the test be on the properties of fire, method and theory  JohnnyBoots   May-27-09 08:15 AM   #10 
     - You voiced my thoughts perfectly. Thanks. n/t  OneGrassRoot   May-27-09 08:26 AM   #12 
        - It is unfortunate that this case will be used as a molitov cocktail by the Right. It is pretty  JohnnyBoots   May-27-09 08:30 AM   #13 
        - I just posted more thoughts about this in a Rush thread...  OneGrassRoot   May-27-09 08:33 AM   #14 
           - It is interesting that they threw out the test because of too many whites and not enough  JohnnyBoots   May-27-09 08:49 AM   #15 
              - Literacy tests  fugop   May-27-09 09:06 AM   #19 
              - Didn't a dyslexic firefighter do well? It seems if special arrangements  JohnnyBoots   May-27-09 09:13 AM   #20 
                 - Yes  fugop   May-27-09 09:22 AM   #22 
                 - Do a little more research on the case. You will see local politics had a pretty heavy hand in the  JohnnyBoots   May-27-09 09:41 AM   #24 
                 - He paid $1000 to study for it though...  Blue_Roses   May-27-09 11:15 AM   #30 
              - It is my understanding that in the previous test there was a black firefighter who  Raineyb   May-27-09 01:25 PM   #33 
        - The test is "under seal" by the court, in the first place.  CTyankee   May-27-09 08:52 AM   #16 
           - Thanks for that insight, CTyankee!!!  OneGrassRoot   May-27-09 09:01 AM   #17 
           - What kind of 'Flaws' working against black firefighters are you talking  JohnnyBoots   May-27-09 09:01 AM   #18 
              - I say "flaws" because I can't understand how it can be that no black firefighter  CTyankee   May-27-09 09:17 AM   #21 
                 - I agree the test was outdated and I  JohnnyBoots   May-27-09 09:40 AM   #23 
                 - Public schools in New Haven are NOT the greatest.  CTyankee   May-27-09 09:52 AM   #25 
                 - There were black firefighters who passed the test  DatManFromNawlins   May-27-09 10:05 PM   #48 
                    - The scores of the black firefighters were lower than the whites so the top scorers  CTyankee   May-28-09 12:53 PM   #59 
  - The Case Illustrates That She Is Not An Activist Judge  jberryhill   May-27-09 08:24 AM   #11 
  - Any organization who uses such a test would do the same as the city of New Haven,  izzybeans   May-27-09 10:29 AM   #26 
  - Well, due diligence would have required the mayor to find a test that had been used before  CTyankee   May-27-09 01:21 PM   #31 
     - You are asking to correct something that has no bearing on the legal aspect of the case and has the  izzybeans   May-27-09 03:55 PM   #34 
        - You misunderstand my argument. I am blaming the mayor for the mess to begin with.  CTyankee   May-27-09 04:25 PM   #35 
           - I love when I argue with someone I agree with.  izzybeans   May-29-09 02:24 PM   #68 
  - The way questions are asked can make assumptions about common experiences that are not valid.  TimesSquareCowboy   May-27-09 10:44 AM   #27 
  - Some tests use simulation. This one did not.  CTyankee   May-27-09 01:24 PM   #32 
  - And the context of fire departments should not be ignored.  TimesSquareCowboy   May-27-09 10:49 AM   #28 
  - Seriously? In NYC?  OneGrassRoot   May-27-09 11:10 AM   #29 
  - Reverse racism  sniffa   May-27-09 04:26 PM   #36 
  - I just wish I could see the test and make up my own mind on what I think of it.  rvablue   May-27-09 04:44 PM   #37 
  - My money is on that it is sealed because the Mayor is covering his ass.  JohnnyBoots   May-28-09 10:17 AM   #55 
  - "how one constructs a technical test that favors or discriminates against any race"  boppers   May-27-09 04:53 PM   #38 
  - Thanks for that! :) n/t  OneGrassRoot   May-27-09 04:59 PM   #39 
  - There was no evidence presented that the test was biased,  seaglass   May-27-09 05:35 PM   #40 
  - Well, there was the court's decision, and how the decision is now being framed.  boppers   May-27-09 06:21 PM   #42 
     - Sorry, I wasn't looking at this case in the context of the SCOTUS  seaglass   May-27-09 07:44 PM   #44 
        - Interesting link!  boppers   May-27-09 10:43 PM   #50 
        - Thank you! n/t  OneGrassRoot   May-28-09 08:14 AM   #52 
  - How do you know...  MellowDem   May-27-09 07:55 PM   #45 
  - Well, I know you're not a golfer.  boppers   May-27-09 09:54 PM   #47 
  - About the golf course...  MellowDem   May-28-09 10:19 AM   #56 
  - Shoe on the other foot test: Imagine it were the other way around . . .  Empowerer   May-28-09 11:17 AM   #57 
     - Well, if that had been the case...  MellowDem   May-28-09 11:57 AM   #58 
        - Do you really believe  Empowerer   May-28-09 02:09 PM   #60 
           - I was talking generally  MellowDem   May-28-09 09:25 PM   #61 
              - "The fact that none made the the score isn't surprising given the numbers . . . "  Empowerer   May-28-09 10:17 PM   #62 
                 - I disagree  MellowDem   May-29-09 11:40 AM   #67 
  - Those are not racially bias questions  Rwalsh   May-27-09 08:01 PM   #46 
  - That really depends on one's ideas about class, and race.  boppers   May-27-09 10:12 PM   #49 
  - So the only people that can pass this test is  Thothmes   May-29-09 05:59 AM   #65 
  - The firefighters have a website:  Feron   May-27-09 06:02 PM   #41 
  - Here's an article I came across today that might help...  babylonsister   May-27-09 07:01 PM   #43 
  - Here's another...  babylonsister   May-28-09 07:42 AM   #51 
  - Thanks for all this, babylonsister. :) n/t  OneGrassRoot   May-28-09 08:14 AM   #53 
  - The GOP hate-machine tries to give you the impression...  Puzzler   May-28-09 10:48 PM   #63 
  - Isn't all this beside the point? By not agreeing to hear the case, the appellate court  wiggs   May-28-09 11:51 PM   #64 
     - I agree with you but the other side would say "Why didn't she vote to overturn and  CTyankee   May-29-09 07:19 AM   #66 
 

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