| 187. Nice try. You're on your own. You can spin your web and get caught in it without help. |
| -Al Giordano's response to Naomi Klein's 'A Lexicon of Disappointment' article |
Jackeens |
Apr-18-09 05:24 PM |
#0 |
 -
Heh. If you just *define* a "true progressive" as somebody who voted for and now hates Obama.... |
BlooInBloo |
Apr-18-09 05:25 PM |
#1 |
| -
You beat me to it I was about to post this! |
HopeOverFear |
Apr-18-09 05:26 PM |
#2 |
  -
LOL! (Left a message for you on the original thread) |
Jackeens |
Apr-18-09 05:28 PM |
#3 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 05:34 PM |
#4 |
| -
huh? What in this article, precisely, is racist, bigoted, misinformed |
cali |
Apr-18-09 05:49 PM |
#20 |
| -
You haven't read it, then |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:10 PM |
#48 |
| -
I read every word of it. And it is not racist, bigoted or elitest. |
cali |
Apr-18-09 06:29 PM |
#64 |
| -
it's in the other thread Cali and that's the last time I'll try to get you to join those syllables |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:33 PM |
#69 |
| -
Did Al Giordano come to DU and rewrite his post in the other thread? |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-18-09 06:41 PM |
#78 |
| -
I'm sorry, friend, but I honestly think you're really misreading Al Giordano. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 06:13 PM |
#53 |
| -
"I think Naomi Klein made some good points badly" |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-18-09 06:17 PM |
#55 |
| -
Good point and if we are to work together, it's helpful not to reinforce damaging stereotypes and |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:32 PM |
#68 |
| -
This is also true. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-18-09 06:37 PM |
#74 |
| -
"less than artful" -- that's the prollem! |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:47 PM |
#81 |
| -
I have been advocating for YEARS that if there is to be a true progressive movement in this country, |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 06:36 PM |
#73 |
| -
Using "their" ideas to bludgeon each other doesn't channel that energy into something enduring or |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:49 PM |
#82 |
| -
Especially because both agree on the CORE of the issue. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-18-09 06:52 PM |
#83 |
| -
Well there it is. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:53 PM |
#85 |
| -
And that's exactly why we on the left haven't been getting anywhere since the 70s. |
Odin2005 |
Apr-19-09 02:44 PM |
#166 |
| -
That's why Obama stated that it's about "us" not him. |
Odin2005 |
Apr-19-09 02:38 PM |
#165 |
| -
Thank you scarletwoman. Unfortunately, he is reinforcing divisive stereotypes in order to put Klein |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:30 PM |
#65 |
| -
I honestly don't see that. He's advocating for community organizing, for really getting down among |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 07:02 PM |
#87 |
| -
"Revealing a bizarre contempt and college-educated condescension toward a vast multi-racial swathe" |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 07:13 PM |
#89 |
| -
Well, I think Naomi's language WAS condescending. At the very least it was unhelpful. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 07:26 PM |
#92 |
| -
then you may not be among those being sideswiped in the opener............. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 07:31 PM |
#94 |
| -
I clearly don't see what you're seeing in the Giordano piece. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 07:54 PM |
#96 |
| -
his divisive pronouncements stand and reinforced cliches poison perceptions/discussion |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 07:59 PM |
#97 |
| -
Well Said, My Friend! |
The Magistrate |
Apr-18-09 06:32 PM |
#67 |
| -
Dear Magistrate! It's WONDERFUL to "see" you again!!!! |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 06:43 PM |
#79 |
| -
The Feeling Is Mutual, Ma'am |
The Magistrate |
Apr-18-09 06:53 PM |
#84 |
| -
These days, I'm inclined more toward lurking as well. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 07:18 PM |
#90 |
| -
Hence all the banking threads that were "critical" of Obama |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 07:19 PM |
#91 |
| -
Eyes on the prize, comrades, eyes on the prize. |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 07:31 PM |
#93 |
| -
"people should remain on solid foundation, and recognize that a turn has begun: |
Number23 |
Apr-18-09 09:02 PM |
#106 |
| -
Same here! |
Odin2005 |
Apr-19-09 02:49 PM |
#170 |
| -
Ah Jesus - The Magistrate? I want your babies. |
Jackeens |
Apr-18-09 09:04 PM |
#107 |
| -
Magistrate!!! Where the Hell have you been all this time!?! |
Odin2005 |
Apr-19-09 02:47 PM |
#169 |
| -
There IS no common ground to be found in writings that include "fan" in them. |
DevonRex |
Apr-18-09 11:03 PM |
#114 |
| -
"progressive supporters and sympathizers of Obama and his movement" What "movement"? |
scarletwoman |
Apr-18-09 05:35 PM |
#5 |
| -
Al Giordano is a treasure. His blog, The Field, was a must-read during the |
NYCGirl |
Apr-18-09 05:37 PM |
#6 |
| -
and apparently a racist and elitist using Republicon talking points. You people are fallin for this? |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:41 PM |
#8 |
| -
Apparently not. n/t |
Cha |
Apr-18-09 05:45 PM |
#14 |
| -
what are the racist and elitest talking points? |
cali |
Apr-18-09 05:49 PM |
#21 |
| -
The ones that don't bash Obama. n/t |
geek tragedy |
Apr-18-09 05:50 PM |
#24 |
| -
see the thread this TOXIC OP came from, please. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:51 PM |
#27 |
| -
"Toxic"? Are you saying Giordano should be censored? |
Jackeens |
Apr-18-09 05:54 PM |
#34 |
| -
By transferring this from the other thread, you have proven that people don't read for themselves |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:04 PM |
#44 |
| -
Ah, so you DO want it censored? Okay. |
Jackeens |
Apr-18-09 06:07 PM |
#47 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 06:11 PM |
#49 |
| -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 06:13 PM |
#51 |
| -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 06:13 PM |
#52 |
| -
anything that doesn't bash obama is "divisive" and "toxic" to you. you're transparent as glass... |
dionysus |
Apr-19-09 12:21 PM |
#141 |
| -
nonsense |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 01:31 PM |
#146 |
| -
I don't get the point of your repeating those claims? "Racist & elitist?".. |
Tarheel_Dem |
Apr-19-09 01:47 AM |
#122 |
| -
more |
Pirate Smile |
Apr-18-09 05:38 PM |
#7 |
| -
ain't divisiveness a hoot? |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:42 PM |
#9 |
| -
Naomi Klein |
Cha |
Apr-18-09 05:47 PM |
#16 |
| -
Look don't drink the Kool Aid, please. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:48 PM |
#19 |
| -
oh fucking please. disagreeing with you or Klein is not de facto |
cali |
Apr-18-09 06:32 PM |
#66 |
| -
saying she is "big on that divisive crap" is |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:54 PM |
#86 |
| -
As you're drowning in it.. |
Cha |
Apr-18-09 06:39 PM |
#76 |
| -
And now with the Kool-Aid insult. I call utter bullshit on you. |
DevonRex |
Apr-19-09 11:24 AM |
#134 |
| -
and the name calling Klein did in such an elitest manner is just dandy? |
cali |
Apr-18-09 05:50 PM |
#26 |
| -
apparently you haven't read my take on it. see the thread this TOXIC OP came from |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:52 PM |
#29 |
| -
you are the only one here being divisive. |
mkultra |
Apr-18-09 11:51 PM |
#117 |
| -
Physician, heal thyself |
SoxFan |
Apr-18-09 06:21 PM |
#60 |
| -
see the other thread, Beavis. Duh. May be the last time I try that sort of thing here. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:35 PM |
#70 |
| -
whew chile that last paragraph is the TRUTH! |
HopeOverFear |
Apr-18-09 05:45 PM |
#13 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 05:47 PM |
#17 |
| -
Want some cheese to go with that . . . . ? n/t |
geek tragedy |
Apr-18-09 05:50 PM |
#22 |
| -
Thank you Beavis, I'll pass. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:52 PM |
#31 |
| -
I have that person on ignore LOL so I was spared from teh stupid |
HopeOverFear |
Apr-18-09 05:57 PM |
#37 |
| -
I gave it a little leeway to see if there |
geek tragedy |
Apr-18-09 06:00 PM |
#41 |
| -
LOL! |
HopeOverFear |
Apr-18-09 06:02 PM |
#42 |
| -
your friend is lying b/c was just in the thread OP'd this BS came from. Which you didn't read. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:05 PM |
#45 |
| -
all YOU are doing in this thead is throwing out accusations or right wing and bigot |
cali |
Apr-18-09 05:56 PM |
#36 |
| -
Cali. Get a grip. SEE THE OP THAT THIS TOXIC DIVISIVE RACIST "ELITIST" CRAP OP CAME FROM |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:59 PM |
#40 |
| -
ok, you really are loosing it. you aren't even making sense here. |
cali |
Apr-18-09 06:25 PM |
#61 |
| -
I love Al. nt |
DevonRex |
Apr-19-09 11:47 AM |
#137 |
| -
The "intellectual masturbation" remark is right on target. |
Odin2005 |
Apr-19-09 02:56 PM |
#172 |
| -
An Excellent Article, Ma'am: Thank You For Sharing It |
The Magistrate |
Apr-18-09 05:42 PM |
#10 |
| -
How do you justify the racist and elitist and RW Talking Point aspects, Dear Magistrate? |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:50 PM |
#25 |
| -
Please explain which RW talking points you mean? |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-18-09 05:52 PM |
#30 |
| -
Have you read the piece? |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:53 PM |
#32 |
| -
Yes. I don't see RW talking points. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-18-09 05:58 PM |
#39 |
| -
oh holy shit. if this is as good as it gets, no wonder we fight all the time. Thank you SCQ |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:12 PM |
#50 |
| -
None Stood Out To Me, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Apr-18-09 06:06 PM |
#46 |
| -
thank you, worthy of a reply and then the stupid snark at the end about Berkeley |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:14 PM |
#54 |
| -
There Is Nothing Racist or Elitist In The Article, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Apr-18-09 06:18 PM |
#57 |
| -
Wrong. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:25 PM |
#62 |
| -
Hard To Refute Such A Detailed And Well-Developed Rebuttal, Sir.... |
The Magistrate |
Apr-18-09 06:27 PM |
#63 |
| -
You lost me at Berkeley, Ma'am |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:36 PM |
#72 |
| -
Took A Wrong Turn At Albequerque, Myself, Sir.... |
The Magistrate |
Apr-18-09 06:38 PM |
#75 |
| -
I have Al Giordano and |
Cha |
Apr-18-09 05:44 PM |
#11 |
| -
So that's how you see "white progressives" including your fellow DUers? |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:54 PM |
#33 |
| -
This is what I took away from Klein's article... |
rucky |
Apr-18-09 05:44 PM |
#12 |
| -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 05:55 PM |
#35 |
| -
Rec'd...thanks! n/t |
firedupdem |
Apr-18-09 05:46 PM |
#15 |
| -
Thank you for posting this. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-18-09 05:47 PM |
#18 |
| -
Minorities who favor Barack Obama anywhere from 70 to 90% |
FrenchieCat |
Apr-18-09 05:50 PM |
#23 |
| -
yep...that's the only reason we voted for him. I wonder why I didn't |
firedupdem |
Apr-18-09 05:51 PM |
#28 |
| -
The worst part of this level of willful ignorance is all the diligent, insightful work Ms. Klein has |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 05:57 PM |
#38 |
| -
What racism? You keep saying that with nothing to back it up. |
firedupdem |
Apr-18-09 06:02 PM |
#43 |
| -
read the thread this TOXIC BS was imported from. and by all means, think for yourself. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:17 PM |
#56 |
| -
I've read it and I always think for myself. I think you're having |
firedupdem |
Apr-18-09 06:19 PM |
#59 |
| -
If you read it you wouldn't have asked #46 |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:40 PM |
#77 |
| -
It's imaginary. This poster has been called upon, numerous times, to |
Tarheel_Dem |
Apr-19-09 02:03 AM |
#123 |
| -
Yeah...lots of condescension but no detailed replies |
October |
Apr-19-09 05:06 PM |
#178 |
| -
that's fucking it. how dare you? how fucking dare you accuse |
cali |
Apr-18-09 06:35 PM |
#71 |
| -
I don't use the term "reverse racism" another RW talking point. There must be a better term. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 06:46 PM |
#80 |
| -
your uncritical adulation of Ms. Klein, is just sad. n/t |
cali |
Apr-18-09 07:03 PM |
#88 |
| -
and you're misinterpretations are stunning. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 07:44 PM |
#95 |
| -
And I guess I voted for him out of |
DevonRex |
Apr-19-09 11:51 AM |
#138 |
| -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 06:18 PM |
#58 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 08:01 PM |
#98 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 08:04 PM |
#100 |
| -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 08:05 PM |
#101 |
| -
Excellent article ... |
RoyGBiv |
Apr-18-09 08:02 PM |
#99 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 08:19 PM |
#102 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-18-09 08:21 PM |
#103 |
| -
Speak of the Devil.....how's the birth cert search going? |
Jackeens |
Apr-18-09 08:22 PM |
#104 |
| -
Damn, who rocks harder today? |
Number23 |
Apr-18-09 08:57 PM |
#105 |
| -
#23 again, Jackeens. This whole thread is just a great big bowl of Epic WIN! |
Number23 |
Apr-18-09 09:10 PM |
#108 |
| -
#23 yet again, Jackeens. You wouldn't by chance have saved any of those |
Number23 |
Apr-18-09 09:21 PM |
#109 |
| -
Thanks for posting. Good stuff. |
jefferson_dem |
Apr-18-09 09:26 PM |
#110 |
| -
good thing it was prepackaged and no one here had to rebutt it themselves. |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 10:01 PM |
#111 |
| -
I was curious about the defensive posture of your post until I looked through this thread... |
jefferson_dem |
Apr-18-09 10:11 PM |
#112 |
| -
Well the post saying "Naomi can fuck off from now" shows where the holes (in common sense) are |
omega minimo |
Apr-18-09 11:21 PM |
#115 |
| -
Naomi can fuck off from now on, as far as I'm concerned. nt |
DevonRex |
Apr-18-09 11:02 PM |
#113 |
| -
DevonRex! I missed my buddy! I should have known you would |
firedupdem |
Apr-18-09 11:39 PM |
#116 |
| -
Hey firedupdem! Oh, but apparently I have a logic problem, lol!!! |
DevonRex |
Apr-19-09 11:43 AM |
#136 |
| -
I love this excerpt. |
Uzybone |
Apr-19-09 12:05 AM |
#118 |
| -
yeah, that's really great total divisive bullshit |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 01:30 AM |
#120 |
| -
Whew! |
Realtalk |
Apr-19-09 12:49 AM |
#119 |
| -
It made me cry.....just a bit. |
FrenchieCat |
Apr-19-09 01:38 AM |
#121 |
| -
Smackdown of the Century? I resent being labeled a "superfan" simply... |
Tarheel_Dem |
Apr-19-09 02:08 AM |
#124 |
| -
I do too. It was also intentionally insulting. For that, she'll get |
DevonRex |
Apr-19-09 11:55 AM |
#139 |
| -
And contempt is precisely what is called for here. I don't envy her |
Tarheel_Dem |
Apr-19-09 12:49 PM |
#142 |
| -
Let's hope so, eh? And your post was very well written, by the way. |
DevonRex |
Apr-19-09 04:36 PM |
#176 |
| -
She stands united for president Obama. |
Life Long Dem |
Apr-19-09 06:53 AM |
#125 |
| -
OMFG!!! Some people are to the *left* of Obama! |
BlueEyedSon |
Apr-19-09 08:15 AM |
#126 |
| -
hardly germane to the discussion. |
cali |
Apr-19-09 08:16 AM |
#127 |
| -
you have cali's permission |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 10:08 AM |
#130 |
| -
The Naomi Kleins are the types of liberals that have caused liberals to be the minority for way too |
NJmaverick |
Apr-19-09 08:56 AM |
#128 |
| -
"She is a poster child for clueless entitled elitist." |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 10:11 AM |
#131 |
| -
I wouldn't argue that Klein is a doubled edged sword or even a loose cannon |
NJmaverick |
Apr-19-09 11:26 AM |
#135 |
| -
Let's not drive the wedge ourselves. |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 01:30 PM |
#145 |
| -
Very hard hitting rebuttal to the Klein article... |
Spazito |
Apr-19-09 10:02 AM |
#129 |
| -
"Hard hitting" like a blunt force trauma. |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 10:16 AM |
#132 |
| -
I disagree n/t |
Spazito |
Apr-19-09 10:23 AM |
#133 |
| -
But he has the numbers to back him up |
Hello_Kitty |
Apr-19-09 01:21 PM |
#143 |
| -
She didn't say that "Obama is turning off progressives" |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 01:35 PM |
#148 |
| -
Omega, the big mistake you made here is |
stevenleser |
Apr-19-09 01:37 PM |
#150 |
| -
Actually this thread is a continuation of Omega's OP. |
Starry Messenger |
Apr-19-09 01:56 PM |
#153 |
| -
no, it's not. this thread is simply the posting of an article. |
cali |
Apr-19-09 02:02 PM |
#155 |
| -
No, it isn't. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-19-09 02:07 PM |
#156 |
| -
Why is there a link to the other thread in the OP? |
Starry Messenger |
Apr-19-09 02:21 PM |
#158 |
| -
Because it's giving credit to the person that found the article, not calling the OP out. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-19-09 02:22 PM |
#160 |
| -
. |
Starry Messenger |
Apr-19-09 02:32 PM |
#163 |
| -
which referenced and linked to the other thread and was supported with the worst DU tactics possible |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 02:25 PM |
#161 |
| -
The person who mentioned the other thread more than any other was *you*. |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-19-09 02:27 PM |
#162 |
| -
I did NOT "choose one of the most inflammatory pieces of the article for your headline" |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 02:45 PM |
#167 |
| -
You had no idea that the word "superfan" would be radioactive on DU? Really? |
SemiCharmedQuark |
Apr-19-09 02:52 PM |
#171 |
| -
you can't take my post at face value b/c you would have to question your own assumptions |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 07:27 PM |
#183 |
| -
wow. you need to take a deep breath and quit with the martyred drama queen |
cali |
Apr-19-09 03:23 PM |
#174 |
| -
It's so funny how all your accusations sound like you're talking about yourself |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 07:11 PM |
#182 |
| -
We are talking about opportunities to drop defensive and divisive attitudes or perpetuate them |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 02:21 PM |
#159 |
| -
I agree. Since I was angry myself at Naomi's condescending attitude |
DevonRex |
Apr-19-09 11:58 AM |
#140 |
| -
It still seemed possible to look |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 01:22 PM |
#144 |
| -
If finding common ground is what you seek |
namahage |
Apr-19-09 01:59 PM |
#154 |
| -
That is a perfectly reasonable and peaceful statement and I am VERY SORRY if you can't see that. |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 02:13 PM |
#157 |
| -
Are racist comments on DU perfectly reasonable and peaceful too? |
Jackeens |
Apr-19-09 02:35 PM |
#164 |
| -
Apparently the despicable tactics you used yesterday are mysteriously okay for you to inflict on DU |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 02:47 PM |
#168 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-19-09 03:17 PM |
#173 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-19-09 07:09 PM |
#181 |
| -
As my Granny used to say, "drink's a curse". Liars too. |
Jackeens |
Apr-19-09 08:01 PM |
#184 |
| -
Keep it up, maybe you'll manage to get banned. |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 08:06 PM |
#185 |
| -
4008 views for the article you wanted censored.....no wonder you're enraged, omega minimo. |
Jackeens |
Apr-19-09 08:09 PM |
#186 |
| -
Nice try. You're on your own. You can spin your web and get caught in it without help. |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 08:20 PM |
#187 |
| -
4052. |
Jackeens |
Apr-19-09 08:23 PM |
#188 |
| -
4053 |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 08:24 PM |
#189 |
| -
Wrong: 4062. |
Jackeens |
Apr-19-09 08:25 PM |
#190 |
| -
have a nice wank. |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 08:30 PM |
#191 |
| -
4078. |
Jackeens |
Apr-19-09 08:31 PM |
#192 |
| -
Klein made several valid points in her essay but was needlessly insulting. |
Hello_Kitty |
Apr-19-09 01:34 PM |
#147 |
| -
Well he succeeded in setting himself & HiS fans outside - & hardened the shell of - "her bubble" |
omega minimo |
Apr-19-09 01:37 PM |
#149 |
| -
88% approval among Democrats. |
Hello_Kitty |
Apr-19-09 01:48 PM |
#152 |
| -
Naomi Klein is not only insulting ..she's |
Cha |
Apr-19-09 01:41 PM |
#151 |
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Actually I find her essay completely self indulgent |
grantcart |
Apr-19-09 04:08 PM |
#175 |
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and that's spot on. |
cali |
Apr-19-09 04:39 PM |
#177 |
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I like Obama, I don't like his crew. |
Grinchie |
Apr-19-09 05:27 PM |
#179 |
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actually, he did campaign to the middle |
cali |
Apr-19-09 05:34 PM |
#180 |
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you realize you're replying to a parody, right? |
omega minimo |
Apr-20-09 12:33 AM |
#194 |
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Then perhaps Naomi should have climbed down from her ivory tower... |
Tarheel_Dem |
Apr-20-09 12:07 AM |
#193 |
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i could read that carefully boxed "quote" that seemed entirely ludicrous |
omega minimo |
Apr-20-09 12:50 AM |
#195 |
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Kick n/t |
ihavenobias |
Apr-22-09 06:47 PM |
#196 |
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