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Reply #82: Excellent points and well said! nt [View All]

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ItNerd4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:01 PM
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82. Excellent points and well said! nt
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  -So let me get this straight here. Occam Bandage  Apr-16-09 11:45 PM   #0 
  - I can't find the link to that Scottish lady singing that song  leftstreet   Apr-16-09 11:47 PM   #1 
  - ...  Patsy Stone   Apr-16-09 11:57 PM   #11 
  - !!  Richardo   Apr-17-09 10:47 AM   #69 
  - Go To  debunkthelies   Apr-17-09 03:09 PM   #102 
     - Just listened to her recording of "Cry Me a River". Wowser!  classof56   Apr-17-09 03:58 PM   #110 
  - Summary:  geek tragedy   Apr-16-09 11:48 PM   #2 
  - You're on a roll this week.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-17-09 02:27 PM   #90 
  - Yep. Boggles the mind. No matter what he does, he's going to catch shit for it. NT  MADem   Apr-16-09 11:48 PM   #3 
  - It seems like there's an anti Obama cult as well as a pro Obama cult  Richd506   Apr-17-09 02:33 PM   #94 
     - The former are a bit more obnoxious than the latter, though.  MADem   Apr-17-09 02:56 PM   #100 
  - So if someone commits a crime in your neighborhood, if the police  mmonk   Apr-16-09 11:49 PM   #4 
  - You are missing a critical piece. It would be something the police told them was legal and then  Pirate Smile   Apr-16-09 11:52 PM   #7 
  - That is absolutely correct. I cannot imagine anyone approving of a situation in which  Occam Bandage   Apr-16-09 11:57 PM   #12 
  - That doesn't even deal with the practical realities that the police commissioner would need people  Pirate Smile   Apr-17-09 12:04 AM   #16 
  - The problem for me is that I don't care about pro-transperency as much as  truedelphi   Apr-17-09 12:48 AM   #30 
  - Indeed torture is wrong, and nobody has ever doubted or denied that, at any level.  Occam Bandage   Apr-17-09 12:52 AM   #32 
     - You say, further down,  truedelphi   Apr-17-09 01:11 AM   #36 
        - Who said we couldn't go after Bush and Cheney?  Occam Bandage   Apr-17-09 01:26 AM   #41 
        - Every child in school  Mojorabbit   Apr-17-09 02:53 AM   #52 
           - Plus for some of these people, they could always change jobs. After all,  truedelphi   Apr-17-09 02:55 PM   #98 
              - Seconded  ArcticFox   Apr-17-09 03:38 PM   #107 
                 - Wow! That is an excellent point. You say:  truedelphi   Apr-17-09 03:52 PM   #109 
  - Except you are ignorning the fact that torture has always been illegal ---  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 09:53 PM   #134 
  - True, but what constitutes torture was different in the Bush administration  MadBadger   Apr-17-09 10:13 PM   #139 
     - No . . they attempted to corrupt the Geneva Accords, the Constitution and Military laws .. .  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:38 PM   #154 
  - So it's okay to torture children?  proud2BlibKansan   Apr-17-09 10:48 PM   #155 
  - So you're saying these are things you'd do . . . ?  defendandprotect   Apr-18-09 12:41 AM   #158 
  - Who cares if they were directed to do it?  silverojo   Apr-17-09 12:22 AM   #21 
  - I might well say "no sane person would join the CIA." That's meaningless.  Occam Bandage   Apr-17-09 12:29 AM   #23 
  - Forget that you would lose your job.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-17-09 02:32 PM   #93 
  - That critical piece being slamming people's heads against  kas125   Apr-17-09 02:07 AM   #45 
  - The Law doesn't do "right and wrong" or "personal judgments"  jberryhill   Apr-17-09 10:45 AM   #66 
  - Exactly . . . and it's exactly what the military wants . . . robots surrendering conscience...!!!  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 09:57 PM   #136 
  - kas125, you wrote:  tblue37   Apr-17-09 09:58 PM   #137 
  - Almost, but not quite  jberryhill   Apr-17-09 10:43 AM   #64 
  - Still not a defense  moodforaday   Apr-17-09 11:47 AM   #81 
  - Except we're not talking about the people who are at fault here.  Occam Bandage   Apr-16-09 11:53 PM   #8 
  - Do you really expect people to believe that they didn't KNOW  kas125   Apr-17-09 02:12 AM   #47 
     - The laws of the civilized people of the United States  jberryhill   Apr-17-09 10:47 AM   #68 
     - You need to read the memos  high density   Apr-17-09 10:57 AM   #74 
     - The law is not those memos  Raineyb   Apr-19-09 07:59 PM   #180 
     - exactly, unless one is so,so far gone-a person does know  katty   Apr-17-09 04:29 PM   #112 
  - In the fantasy world of silly hypothetical arguments, yes  HughMoran   Apr-16-09 11:54 PM   #9 
  - its called ex post facto you fucking moron  mkultra   Apr-17-09 06:58 PM   #128 
  - you got it!  kid a   Apr-16-09 11:50 PM   #5 
  - I watched an amazing Frontline video about the Office of Legal Council  rockymountaindem   Apr-16-09 11:51 PM   #6 
  - Exactly. Give him time. He's aiming high.  Shanti Mama   Apr-17-09 10:40 AM   #63 
  - Certainly everyone at the CIA wasn't born yesterday and knows TORTURE is illegal . . .  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:04 PM   #138 
  - K&R, my friend  empyreanisles   Apr-16-09 11:55 PM   #10 
  - Yay! more kicks for the folks who get it!!!! NT  Clio the Leo   Apr-16-09 11:58 PM   #13 
  - There is no way these CIA torturers didn't KNOW it was torture. They did it ANYWAY. NO legal  katandmoon   Apr-16-09 11:59 PM   #14 
  - They knew it was waterboarding.  Occam Bandage   Apr-17-09 12:04 AM   #17 
     - I disagree completely. These torturers knew what amounts to torture without some  rhett o rick   Apr-17-09 02:22 PM   #88 
        - In fact, didn't Judge Jay Bybee confirm that it could produce "imminent death" ... but go ahead,  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:14 PM   #140 
  - excellent, excellent piece. k&fuckin'r  cali   Apr-17-09 12:01 AM   #15 
  - Speaking for myself, I am pleased by the document release  Kurt_and_Hunter   Apr-17-09 12:07 AM   #18 
  - "mbracing the Nuremberg defense on its face as an ethical construct"  jberryhill   Apr-17-09 01:45 AM   #42 
  - Well they are angry about that and the fact that with in the first 100 days nobody is in jail yet.  grantcart   Apr-17-09 12:10 AM   #19 
  - Ron Reagan had an interesting theory on the radio this afternoon  Muttocracy   Apr-17-09 12:21 AM   #20 
  - Even setting aside testimony against higher-ranking officials,  Occam Bandage   Apr-17-09 12:25 AM   #22 
  - I don't know - I take this as going far beyond a "business practice"  Muttocracy   Apr-17-09 12:30 AM   #24 
     - Torture isn't a black-and-white thing.  Occam Bandage   Apr-17-09 12:39 AM   #26 
        - I imagine in modern combat (Iraq, Afghanistan) the military isn't black and white either  Muttocracy   Apr-17-09 12:48 AM   #29 
        - I don't know why bright lights is obviously not torture  Kurt_and_Hunter   Apr-17-09 01:01 AM   #34 
           - *shrug* Then replace "bright lights" with "a slap to the face" in my previous paragraph.  Occam Bandage   Apr-17-09 01:24 AM   #39 
           - You just proved the OP's point.  onenote   Apr-17-09 06:22 AM   #57 
  - Right... I was listening . .. wasn't he suggesting that IMMUNITY could succeed in bringing out . .  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:16 PM   #141 
  - I have a bit more respect for the CIA than that  tkmorris   Apr-17-09 12:30 AM   #25 
  - well said  Muttocracy   Apr-17-09 12:49 AM   #31 
  - Precisely . . . who would think anyone in CIA was that unknowing, that naive . . . ????  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:18 PM   #142 
  - No, not quite.  Political Heretic   Apr-17-09 12:43 AM   #27 
  - That's meaningless fluff.  Occam Bandage   Apr-17-09 12:46 AM   #28 
     - Well I hope so.  Political Heretic   Apr-17-09 12:55 AM   #33 
     - What?  whatchamacallit   Apr-20-09 09:48 AM   #183 
  - why don't folks do a little legal research on torture indictments and trials?  amborin   Apr-17-09 01:10 AM   #35 
  - is there a difference within vs among countries?  Muttocracy   Apr-17-09 01:25 AM   #40 
  - Nothing is enough to compensate, so do nothing?  dorkulon   Apr-17-09 02:28 PM   #91 
  - Occam... BRILLIANT summary... you hit the nail right on the f-ing head  scheming daemons   Apr-17-09 01:14 AM   #37 
  - And as far as the planners of the torture, he lets a little more evidence out  cliffordu   Apr-17-09 01:14 AM   #38 
  - Passion seems to win out over logic here every time lately  Egnever   Apr-17-09 01:59 AM   #43 
  - I for one welcome the change!  Jersey Noir   Apr-17-09 02:07 AM   #44 
  - Welcome to DU!  Egnever   Apr-17-09 02:19 AM   #49 
     - Thanks for the welcome  Jersey Noir   Apr-17-09 08:59 AM   #61 
  - Are you f#cking kidding me?  EFerrari   Apr-17-09 02:08 AM   #46 
  - I am starting to think you have lost your marbles  Egnever   Apr-17-09 02:17 AM   #48 
  - Torture is illegal. That isn't my high or low horse.  EFerrari   Apr-17-09 02:20 AM   #50 
     - sorry its not that clear cut  Egnever   Apr-17-09 02:36 AM   #51 
     - It has been rather fascinating to read some of the posts...  Spazito   Apr-17-09 10:07 AM   #62 
     - You do know, right, that those memos were produced four months  EFerrari   Apr-17-09 02:51 PM   #96 
     - KUBARK  mix   Apr-17-09 05:43 PM   #122 
     - SO IS ENTRAPMENT!  jberryhill   Apr-17-09 10:50 AM   #72 
        - Thank you.  PeaceNikki   Apr-17-09 11:08 AM   #76 
        - The means do matter. What neither you nor I considered yesterday  EFerrari   Apr-17-09 02:53 PM   #97 
           - What I've mentioned repeatedly  jberryhill   Apr-17-09 08:38 PM   #131 
              - How does one torture in good faith? n/t  EFerrari   Apr-18-09 02:12 PM   #165 
                 - Once more with feeling  jberryhill   Apr-18-09 09:23 PM   #171 
  - you're the one that needs a therapist  cali   Apr-17-09 05:48 AM   #54 
  - I feel like I have walked through the looking glass here --  Hell Hath No Fury   Apr-17-09 10:50 AM   #71 
  - it's predictable, like the freepers who supported bush, inc  noiretextatique   Apr-17-09 02:18 PM   #86 
  - Absolute horseshit.  PeaceNikki   Apr-17-09 02:22 PM   #87 
     - You silly liberal - we are talking about criminals here - don't go on about defenses  jberryhill   Apr-18-09 09:26 PM   #172 
  - Creepy, isn't it? Obama did well to release those memos.  EFerrari   Apr-17-09 03:35 PM   #106 
  - Obama cut them off at the pass by providing lawyers for their  biopowertoday   Apr-17-09 05:20 PM   #118 
     - That will blow up on his administration. This isn't going away. n/t  EFerrari   Apr-17-09 06:06 PM   #125 
        - I do not think this issue is going away either as much  biopowertoday   Apr-18-09 02:04 PM   #164 
  - yes it is, astonishing...  mix   Apr-17-09 05:40 PM   #120 
  - No all because the law matters  Egnever   Apr-18-09 09:37 PM   #175 
  - Who?  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:20 PM   #143 
  - You're correct. Most people don't understand the effect of a "legal opinion"  HamdenRice   Apr-17-09 05:39 AM   #53 
  - Do you understand that legal justification was given  mix   Apr-17-09 05:52 PM   #124 
  - Great point . . . and also very like the wiretapping having begun 7 months before 9/11--!!!  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:21 PM   #144 
  - Do you think anyone in Germany thought that the Nuremberg Laws were legal?  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:22 PM   #145 
  - Nail on head. K and rec.  Kdillard   Apr-17-09 05:52 AM   #55 
  - CAT: "An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification"  jewishlibrl   Apr-17-09 05:54 AM   #56 
  - That's not what's going on here, but thanks for playing  jberryhill   Apr-17-09 06:59 AM   #60 
  - They are not relying on an order...that's why they went to the Justice Department  alcibiades_mystery   Apr-17-09 10:46 AM   #67 
  - That's also the lesson of the Nurember Trials . . . which  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:24 PM   #146 
  - Why do you hate 'Merca...  jefferson_dem   Apr-17-09 06:24 AM   #58 
  - Of course the lower level CIA agents were torturing but it was declared legal by the Justice Dept.  Jennicut   Apr-17-09 06:54 AM   #59 
  - There was no legal cover at all for months.  EFerrari   Apr-17-09 05:10 PM   #114 
  - They were supposed to *know*, through basic human understanding,  alcibiades_mystery   Apr-17-09 10:44 AM   #65 
  - No . . . the military is supposed to be trained in our nation's laws --  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:25 PM   #147 
  - Occam Bandage, you always cease to amaze me  Richardo   Apr-17-09 10:48 AM   #70 
  - It's like having mom tell you to have a cookie  shagsak   Apr-17-09 10:54 AM   #73 
  - So are you comparing torture to eating a cookie? If so that is a horrible analogy.  Bjorn Against   Apr-17-09 05:42 PM   #121 
  - really?  shagsak   Apr-18-09 11:25 AM   #159 
     - Taking an order to eat a cookie does not exactly rise to the level of taking an order to torture.  Bjorn Against   Apr-18-09 04:49 PM   #167 
        - If everyone who is taking orders questions those orders  shagsak   Apr-18-09 05:45 PM   #168 
           - First you need to get your facts straight. The people being tortured NEVER attacked the US.  Bjorn Against   Apr-18-09 06:45 PM   #170 
           - The point is - the orders WERE questioned....  jberryhill   Apr-18-09 09:31 PM   #173 
  - It's a no brainer re cookies . . . it's ignoring reality re torture . . .  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:27 PM   #148 
     - not at all  shagsak   Apr-18-09 11:45 AM   #160 
        - Oh, we're "burning" them if we prosecute them? I didn't know that .. .  defendandprotect   Apr-18-09 12:16 PM   #162 
           - lol  shagsak   Apr-18-09 12:54 PM   #163 
              - I thought "burn" was an intended exaggeration . . .  defendandprotect   Apr-18-09 06:38 PM   #169 
  - If I could recommend this thread 1000 times I would  dolo amber   Apr-17-09 11:06 AM   #75 
  - Excellent points  Peacetrain   Apr-17-09 11:09 AM   #77 
  - K&R!  appal_jack   Apr-17-09 11:21 AM   #78 
  - Very well put  EstimatedProphet   Apr-17-09 11:24 AM   #79 
  - War Crimes. Don't care if their Mommy said it was okay. nt.  sam kane   Apr-17-09 11:24 AM   #80 
  - Excellent points and well said! nt  ItNerd4life   Apr-17-09 01:01 PM   #82 
  - Simply awesome.  Phx_Dem   Apr-17-09 01:54 PM   #83 
  - Honestly, this place will always find something to bitch about...  mwei924   Apr-17-09 02:00 PM   #84 
  - Yeah . . . and TORTURE is such a meaningless, pitiful little thing to get upset about---!!!  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:29 PM   #149 
  - This thread needs to be kicked.  PeaceNikki   Apr-17-09 02:07 PM   #85 
  - What is the definition of torture?  shawn703   Apr-17-09 02:26 PM   #89 
  - well fine,...let the little guys go that thought they were obeying the laws..  winyanstaz   Apr-17-09 02:29 PM   #92 
  - the stanford prison experiment  islandgirl808   Apr-17-09 02:38 PM   #95 
  - Apparently a Violation of Geneva Conventions?  Hissyspit   Apr-17-09 02:55 PM   #99 
  - I'm gonna quote Jonathan Turley as my last words for today on this  truedelphi   Apr-17-09 03:27 PM   #104 
  - You have to be one of the most  Blue_Roses   Apr-17-09 03:02 PM   #101 
  - Indeed! n/t  Political Tiger   Apr-17-09 04:13 PM   #111 
  - What seems reasonable to you about rationalizing torture?  EFerrari   Apr-17-09 05:12 PM   #115 
  - Because when our corrupt government tortures, we intend to bury it--???  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:30 PM   #150 
  - I honestly never thought I`d live to see the day  democrank   Apr-17-09 03:17 PM   #103 
  - Well said, it is a sad day for DU to see people here defending torture.  Bjorn Against   Apr-17-09 05:48 PM   #123 
  - Do you remember the "excuses" when we first found out about the torture --- ????  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:31 PM   #151 
  - Half of DU is only angry at the other half of DU that isn't as angry  CreekDog   Apr-17-09 03:28 PM   #105 
  - Now that pisses me off.  Buzz Clik   Apr-17-09 09:11 PM   #133 
  - A Big K&R for  Mme. Defarge   Apr-17-09 03:47 PM   #108 
  - Well said  Adelante   Apr-17-09 04:54 PM   #113 
  - Hyperbole is your speciality  Moochy   Apr-17-09 05:14 PM   #116 
  - yeah, but who do you think will be kicked off American Idol next?  Soylent Brice   Apr-17-09 05:15 PM   #117 
  - There is no excuse for not knowing that those techniques were torture.  mix   Apr-17-09 05:36 PM   #119 
  - K&R, and here's why...  ZeitGuy   Apr-17-09 06:21 PM   #126 
  - You got it, and your a lockstepper for having such reasoned support of Obama.  mkultra   Apr-17-09 06:54 PM   #127 
  - Very well said. My compliments and thanks! K&R n/t  ms liberty   Apr-17-09 06:59 PM   #129 
  - I wish I could find comfort in this utter horse hockey.  uberblonde   Apr-17-09 08:18 PM   #130 
  - Word  whatchamacallit   Apr-20-09 09:52 AM   #184 
  - O. Bandage -- you are dead to me. Well, you were dead to me a year ago.  Buzz Clik   Apr-17-09 09:10 PM   #132 
  - I hate to say it,  Vattel   Apr-17-09 09:53 PM   #135 
  - Could they be tried under some other statute?  jeanpalmer   Apr-17-09 11:24 PM   #157 
  - Sadly we've also seen Congress dragging its feet on TORTURE for years!!!  defendandprotect   Apr-17-09 10:35 PM   #152 
  - Occam Bandage was just following orders. nt  Truth2Tell   Apr-17-09 10:38 PM   #153 
  - Even a sadistic CIA thug  jeanpalmer   Apr-17-09 10:54 PM   #156 
  - "Any belief that a memo from DOJ could authorize assault is unreasonable"  jberryhill   Apr-18-09 09:34 PM   #174 
  - Excellent post. nt  Honeycombe8   Apr-18-09 11:50 AM   #161 
  - Why would anybody expect otherwise of DUers?  BlooInBloo   Apr-18-09 02:21 PM   #166 
  - "Just Following Orders" is NO EXCUSE since the NAZI WAR CRIMES TRIALS  TankLV   Apr-18-09 10:51 PM   #176 
  - Except that they weren't "just following orders"  PeaceNikki   Apr-18-09 10:58 PM   #177 
     - The DOJ clarifications  conscious evolution   Apr-19-09 08:59 AM   #178 
        - Those principles relate to international law - not US law.  PeaceNikki   Apr-19-09 09:16 AM   #179 
           - What US law?  conscious evolution   Apr-20-09 05:53 AM   #181 
  - Rahm Emanuel's statements change everything  jewishlibrl   Apr-20-09 07:48 AM   #182 
  - Yep.  trudyco   Apr-20-09 12:35 PM   #186 
  - I only know one thing  whatchamacallit   Apr-20-09 10:01 AM   #185 
 

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