w4rma
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Thu Apr-16-09 11:28 PM
Response to Original message |
| 30. Yup. Exactly. I'm fine with this. (nt) |
| -See Feingold gets it. People aren't actually listening to what Obama and Holder said |
Thrill |
Apr-16-09 10:01 PM |
#0 |
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these are facts |
CTLawGuy |
Apr-16-09 10:03 PM |
#1 |
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Obama and Holder are very smart. If you read the statements. They are very carefully worded |
Thrill |
Apr-16-09 10:11 PM |
#4 |
| -
Carefully Worded, You Mean Like A "Sternly Worded Letter"? |
Dinger |
Apr-17-09 08:39 AM |
#59 |
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More like carefully worded so that they can still go after the guys who |
The Hope Mobile |
Apr-17-09 11:27 AM |
#87 |
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as well as the guys giving the orders. nt |
RaleighNCDUer |
Apr-17-09 02:35 PM |
#102 |
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We liked that about Obama.. |
Cha |
Apr-17-09 12:18 PM |
#93 |
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Think Progress agrees. |
ginnyinWI |
Apr-17-09 01:49 PM |
#100 |
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I learned it too..too |
Cha |
Apr-17-09 05:34 PM |
#122 |
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OH |
MNBrewer |
Apr-17-09 09:02 PM |
#127 |
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Well it's hard to run around like Chicken Little... |
urgk |
Apr-17-09 07:51 AM |
#55 |
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The "fact" is that these memos were written AFTER the torture program began |
EFerrari |
Apr-17-09 03:45 PM |
#113 |
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Let's review |
alcibiades_mystery |
Apr-16-09 10:07 PM |
#2 |
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Yep... that's about it |
scheming daemons |
Apr-16-09 10:10 PM |
#3 |
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+1 !!! |
uponit7771 |
Apr-16-09 10:12 PM |
#5 |
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Yep. "Just following orders" doesn't excuse war crimes. . . |
pat_k |
Apr-16-09 10:30 PM |
#16 |
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They weren't White House memos |
alcibiades_mystery |
Apr-16-09 10:53 PM |
#22 |
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Sorry. Used White House as short for "Executive Branch". . . |
pat_k |
Apr-16-09 11:33 PM |
#32 |
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It can just as easily be read as an attempt to get a ruling |
alcibiades_mystery |
Apr-16-09 11:55 PM |
#36 |
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"resign immediately" is precisely what any person |
pat_k |
Apr-17-09 04:28 AM |
#49 |
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Nice speech |
alcibiades_mystery |
Apr-17-09 07:34 AM |
#53 |
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Well you say one thing, Bush's Justice Department said otherwise |
high density |
Apr-17-09 07:44 AM |
#54 |
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To bow to legalistic "opinion" that is contrary to |
pat_k |
Apr-17-09 09:32 AM |
#65 |
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The first thing I was taught in boot camp, back in '69 was, |
Dr.Phool |
Apr-17-09 09:41 AM |
#67 |
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Ah, but that's where the DOJ ju jitsu came in |
HamdenRice |
Apr-17-09 09:50 AM |
#68 |
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It don't wash. We're talking adults here. Who know right from wrong. |
Dr.Phool |
Apr-17-09 10:20 AM |
#76 |
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Justice said it was lawful. "They knew better" isn't a way to prosecute these people |
high density |
Apr-17-09 10:35 AM |
#79 |
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Did Germany have a justice department?? |
pocoloco |
Apr-17-09 09:17 PM |
#129 |
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You're mixing a lot of different cases |
HamdenRice |
Apr-17-09 10:44 AM |
#80 |
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Hear, Hear! We never delegate such power without attendant duties |
pat_k |
Apr-17-09 10:13 AM |
#73 |
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Thank you. This is what the military does when they cannot follow an order |
davidwparker |
Apr-17-09 12:54 PM |
#96 |
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Even when, upon their own initiative, they asked the highest legal |
RaleighNCDUer |
Apr-17-09 02:48 PM |
#103 |
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Absolutely. Why do you think we apply the ultimate penalty to. . . |
pat_k |
Apr-18-09 01:30 PM |
#133 |
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exactly, They went to DoJ for exactly the reason |
xxqqqzme |
Apr-17-09 11:01 AM |
#84 |
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I once read an interview with a former Gitmo guard who said that |
tblue37 |
Apr-17-09 08:55 PM |
#126 |
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All the "reasons" you cite can certainly be presented in ones defense. . , |
pat_k |
Apr-18-09 01:54 PM |
#134 |
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Yep. I'd have been so afraid of the fucking VP and HIS minions I'd have |
cliffordu |
Apr-17-09 12:55 AM |
#40 |
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Yeah. n/t |
vaberella |
Apr-17-09 12:58 AM |
#41 |
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Thats it in a nutshell. I don't blame the lower level people. I blame those in charge. |
Jennicut |
Apr-17-09 06:46 AM |
#52 |
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Ahhhhhhhhh yup! |
Shanti Mama |
Apr-17-09 11:04 AM |
#85 |
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too costly and meddlesome to spend time on the field operatives |
underpants |
Apr-17-09 12:02 PM |
#90 |
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Excuse me while I........ |
Clio the Leo |
Apr-16-09 10:14 PM |
#6 |
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I want to hear that prosecutions are taking place. I haven't heard that yet. |
rateyes |
Apr-16-09 10:17 PM |
#7 |
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Let's see if Senators Leahy and Whitehouse are still planning |
bdamomma |
Apr-17-09 10:18 AM |
#75 |
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Also Feingold has it right on the FISA bill... |
slipslidingaway |
Apr-16-09 10:17 PM |
#8 |
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+1. n/t |
vaberella |
Apr-17-09 01:00 AM |
#43 |
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Thanks, ACLU filed a lawsuit the same day the FISA bill passed... |
slipslidingaway |
Apr-17-09 10:32 AM |
#77 |
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Let me just say how proud I am of our brave and smart Senator |
midnight |
Apr-17-09 12:21 PM |
#94 |
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that is just ignorant! |
rufus dog |
Apr-16-09 10:18 PM |
#9 |
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I haven't seen where anyone has been a focal point of anything. |
mmonk |
Apr-16-09 11:04 PM |
#24 |
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Yes, it hasn't happened yet, so therefore it never will |
HughMoran |
Apr-16-09 11:36 PM |
#34 |
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The Jail guards did not get away scott free from the Nazi |
MadMaddie |
Apr-17-09 12:43 AM |
#39 |
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No the guards did not get away |
Bluenorthwest |
Apr-17-09 07:56 AM |
#57 |
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I hate to keep pointing this out to people but. |
zeemike |
Apr-17-09 09:12 AM |
#62 |
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So America was attacked form the inside and there is no punishment for the attackers. |
peace13 |
Apr-17-09 12:11 PM |
#91 |
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I feel the same outrage as you do. |
zeemike |
Apr-17-09 02:19 PM |
#101 |
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We might see a little show.. |
stillcool |
Apr-17-09 09:20 PM |
#130 |
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And former DOD secretary McNamara says the US committed war crimes as well |
HamdenRice |
Apr-17-09 09:53 AM |
#69 |
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Actually, they weren't. They were executed for murdering prisoners. |
RaleighNCDUer |
Apr-17-09 03:03 PM |
#104 |
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Feingold equals Boosh |
jefferson_dem |
Apr-16-09 10:19 PM |
#10 |
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That's one of the funniest things I've read on DU ever. |
PeaceNikki |
Apr-18-09 10:36 AM |
#132 |
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But knee jerk reactions are so much more passionate than thinking about stuff |
cherish44 |
Apr-16-09 10:21 PM |
#11 |
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Roger that. |
havocmom |
Apr-16-09 10:25 PM |
#14 |
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I've done more of that in the past month than I ever did in the primaries. |
Pacifist Patriot |
Apr-17-09 06:02 AM |
#51 |
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Thanks for posting this and thank goodness for Russ. |
KaryninMiami |
Apr-16-09 10:23 PM |
#12 |
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Thanks Russ |
Uzybone |
Apr-16-09 10:24 PM |
#13 |
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Kick |
angee_is_mad |
Apr-16-09 10:28 PM |
#15 |
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awww now see, now you've just ruined it |
HopeOverFear |
Apr-16-09 10:31 PM |
#17 |
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Ashcroft Suggests CIA Started Torturing, Then Sought Legal Cover |
slipslidingaway |
Apr-16-09 10:31 PM |
#18 |
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wow |
Aloha Spirit |
Apr-16-09 11:28 PM |
#31 |
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Yes, thanks to Solly Mack for her thread n/t |
slipslidingaway |
Apr-17-09 10:33 AM |
#78 |
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Good point |
jeanpalmer |
Apr-17-09 12:39 AM |
#38 |
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I don't agree. I think you've underestimated the President's method. |
vaberella |
Apr-17-09 01:04 AM |
#44 |
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I hope so |
jeanpalmer |
Apr-17-09 02:51 AM |
#48 |
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Yes there is room, but President Obama's statement... |
slipslidingaway |
Apr-17-09 10:49 AM |
#83 |
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yeah, & that could be wishful thinking. Because I heard him say we have to "look forward," |
ima_sinnic |
Apr-16-09 10:31 PM |
# |
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Blah blah blah. So what DOES it mean? Does it mean Obama WILL prosecute criminal behavior? |
katandmoon |
Apr-16-09 10:31 PM |
#19 |
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+1 |
ima_sinnic |
Apr-16-09 10:32 PM |
#20 |
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Actually if you took a step back and paid attention than mouthing off... |
vaberella |
Apr-17-09 01:08 AM |
#45 |
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Not buying it. Obama is president. It's up to him to LEAD. Not twiddle his thumbs until public |
katandmoon |
Apr-17-09 09:38 AM |
#66 |
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I agree. |
peace13 |
Apr-17-09 12:55 PM |
#97 |
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WE DON'T NEED A FUCKING LEADER!!!!!!! |
RaleighNCDUer |
Apr-17-09 03:21 PM |
#107 |
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Bingo! stlsaxman hi5's RaleighNCDUer! |
stlsaxman |
Apr-17-09 05:40 PM |
#124 |
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Obama is not the AG. He will NEVER prosecute anyone. It is not in |
RaleighNCDUer |
Apr-17-09 03:14 PM |
#106 |
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Bingo x2!! stlsaxman hi5's RaleighNCDUer twice!! |
stlsaxman |
Apr-17-09 05:43 PM |
#125 |
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Better to keep them guessing, I say. Until it's all sewn up. |
NoSheep |
Apr-17-09 04:50 PM |
#117 |
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The "good faith" argument is perhaps a rather fragile one, at best. |
chill_wind |
Apr-16-09 10:33 PM |
#21 |
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And they knew it when they said it - |
RaleighNCDUer |
Apr-17-09 03:26 PM |
#108 |
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Good points! n/t |
chill_wind |
Apr-17-09 05:25 PM |
#121 |
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The Nuremburg Defense was rejected as nonsense. |
GeorgeGist |
Apr-16-09 10:57 PM |
#23 |
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Except that this wasn't "I was just following orders." |
eyesroll |
Apr-16-09 11:09 PM |
#25 |
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Important distinction. |
MarjorieG |
Apr-16-09 11:14 PM |
#27 |
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This is a very, very difficult concept for the outragers to grasp NM |
high density |
Apr-17-09 07:52 AM |
#56 |
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Except that the folks who said 'just following orders' |
Bluenorthwest |
Apr-17-09 09:12 AM |
#63 |
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Under *US* law, the people in the field shouldn''t be found guilty. |
eyesroll |
Apr-17-09 01:43 PM |
#99 |
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Wrong. The "just following orders" defense was used by Nazis who |
RaleighNCDUer |
Apr-17-09 03:36 PM |
#110 |
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Exactly. nt |
RaleighNCDUer |
Apr-17-09 03:27 PM |
#109 |
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One would like to believe that interpretation |
depakid |
Apr-16-09 11:11 PM |
#26 |
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Most of the government is worried about being held responsible for torture but, |
kster |
Apr-16-09 11:15 PM |
#28 |
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Similiar to the Finnish War Responsibility Trials |
Kaleva |
Apr-16-09 11:25 PM |
#29 |
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Yup. Exactly. I'm fine with this. (nt) |
w4rma |
Apr-16-09 11:28 PM |
#30 |
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I'm counting on this to be exactly so. I do not want to suffer disappointment of such magnitude. |
Mira |
Apr-16-09 11:36 PM |
#33 |
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A sane adult! |
Undercurrent |
Apr-16-09 11:37 PM |
#35 |
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well if we actually have to listen to the guy your going to take all the fun out of it. |
grantcart |
Apr-17-09 12:12 AM |
#37 |
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I haven't seen you in ages GC..glad to see you posting. I'd love to see a thread of your views on |
vaberella |
Apr-17-09 01:09 AM |
#46 |
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Nice to see you again. |
grantcart |
Apr-17-09 03:50 PM |
#114 |
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Feingold has been disappointed before with his hopes for Obama. |
Political Heretic |
Apr-17-09 12:59 AM |
#42 |
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Like about what? |
FrenchieCat |
Apr-17-09 01:27 AM |
#47 |
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Obama's flip flop on FISA. n/t |
seaglass |
Apr-17-09 04:37 AM |
#50 |
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Indeed. Russ is not afraid to criticize Obama when he disagrees. Also see his statement on |
PeaceNikki |
Apr-17-09 09:18 AM |
#64 |
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The actual one's who did the job are free--other's still on the hook............... |
biopowertoday |
Apr-17-09 07:59 AM |
#58 |
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This is the reverse of the usual pattern, in which the big fish go free |
Jackpine Radical |
Apr-17-09 10:11 AM |
#72 |
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Now Senator Feingold needs to pressure the Dems and the Executive |
MasonJar |
Apr-17-09 08:44 AM |
#60 |
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This is why I contribute to the Feingold campaign.. |
4dsc |
Apr-17-09 09:10 AM |
#61 |
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Ax falls: "Bush administration's lawyers and top officials were complicit in torture" |
L. Coyote |
Apr-17-09 10:08 AM |
#70 |
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You Know Cheney's Team of Lawyers (tm) is poring over that statement with a fine toothed comb. |
paparush |
Apr-17-09 10:09 AM |
#71 |
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FInally, someone who actually listens, which is pretty easy to do |
Phx_Dem |
Apr-17-09 10:15 AM |
#74 |
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In the Nuremberg Trials it was the top guys not the foot soldiers |
jwirr |
Apr-17-09 10:44 AM |
#81 |
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I am sick of "carefully worded" spin, TORTURE IS ILLEGAL, therefore, one Must prosecute |
grahamhgreen |
Apr-17-09 10:45 AM |
#82 |
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Prosecute |
democrank |
Apr-17-09 11:14 AM |
#86 |
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Start making calls, write letters to your representatives, and LTTE's. |
alfredo |
Apr-17-09 11:35 AM |
#89 |
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That will work....not. |
peace13 |
Apr-17-09 12:30 PM |
#95 |
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A good general picks the time and place to fight. I think he wants to get |
alfredo |
Apr-17-09 03:12 PM |
#105 |
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I do hope that you are correct. |
peace13 |
Apr-17-09 04:20 PM |
#115 |
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I hope so too. Spain seemed to make me think that we will be acting against |
alfredo |
Apr-17-09 04:55 PM |
#118 |
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I hope Senator Feingold is right. |
JDPriestly |
Apr-17-09 11:30 AM |
#88 |
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The complainers on DU again miss the point. |
brindis_desala |
Apr-17-09 12:15 PM |
#92 |
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I hope for prosecutions based on detainee abuse. I also hope that |
wiggs |
Apr-17-09 01:21 PM |
#98 |
| -
Big K&R! |
Mme. Defarge |
Apr-17-09 03:41 PM |
#111 |
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I get it and it's not true in addition to being morally bankrupt. n/t |
EFerrari |
Apr-17-09 03:44 PM |
#112 |
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Thank you so much for this post! Finally. Finally...maybe the naysayers will |
NoSheep |
Apr-17-09 04:47 PM |
#116 |
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I trust Feingold on this one and will take a chill pill |
ejbr |
Apr-17-09 05:07 PM |
#119 |
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There is no rationale nor any excuse. |
edc |
Apr-17-09 05:21 PM |
#120 |
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So in Nuremberg they should have just gone after Hitler? |
santamargarita |
Apr-17-09 05:37 PM |
#123 |
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No-one who condoned or used torture acted in good faith. |
burning rain |
Apr-17-09 09:16 PM |
#128 |
| -
I sure do hope Feingold is right |
derby378 |
Apr-17-09 09:22 PM |
#131 |
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