wyldwolf
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Wed Feb-18-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #96 |
| 97. It makes no sense because you'll never see it on "progressive" blogs |
|
Do you dispute that "progressives" snipped at FDR his entire time in office?
Do you dispute that "progressives" ran a third party candidate against Harry Truman in 1948?
Do you dispute that "progressives" attempted an end-around in the 1960 DNC convention to take the nomination from JFK?
Do you dispute that "progressives" rioted at the '68 DNC convention (giving the American people their first good look at "progressives") and then sat out the '68 election?
Do you dispute that "progressives" got their man in '72 and lost in a landslide?
Do you dispute that "progressives" backed Ted Kennedy against a sitting Democratic president in 1980, and again attempted an end-around at the '80 convention to take delegates from Carter?
Do you dispute that "progressives" doomed Mondale's campaign in 1984 by demanding he cowtow to single issue advocacy groups?
Do you dispute that "progressives," even today, right here on DU, use right wing talking point againt Bill Clinton?
Do you dispute that "progressives" doomed Al Gore's election in 2000?
The entire "progressive" movement has been one debacle after another. The electorate continuously rejects you at the polls, and you still think there is some invisible "progressive" majority waiting to rise up and make American a progressive utopia.
Political Scientist? Right.
|
| -For the Bill Clinton bashers |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 12:59 AM |
#0 |
 -
wow thatll change their minds |
iamthebandfanman |
Feb-18-09 01:07 AM |
#1 |
  -
Here.... This Helps. |
Yes We Did |
Feb-18-09 09:14 AM |
#15 |
| -
C'mon . . . just because the OP respects Bill Clinton doesn't mean s/he's picking a fight . . . |
MrModerate |
Feb-18-09 01:19 AM |
#2 |
| -
Do we "Owe" the Clinton's too, or have they been compensated |
FrenchieCat |
Feb-18-09 01:38 AM |
#3 |
| -
Well. Bill is making millions in "speaking fees," so I'd say he's been more than |
Skwmom |
Feb-20-09 03:27 PM |
#163 |
| -
Do you know who Beinart is? He's a MAJOR hawk who says Dems should support the Iraq war & the surge |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 01:56 AM |
#4 |
| -
Beinart recanted his backing of the war long ago. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 09:18 AM |
#19 |
| -
"Admit It: The Surge Worked" -- January 18, 2009 |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 12:47 PM |
#38 |
| -
"I think that the surge succeeded beyond our wildest dreams" - Obama, Sept. 2008 |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:15 PM |
#41 |
| -
Context. Obama was saying conditions made the surge succeed beyond his estimates. |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 01:31 PM |
#47 |
| -
the motives of the two are irrelevant |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:55 PM |
#50 |
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Context does matter, because it distinguishes neocons from realists. |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 01:58 PM |
#52 |
| -
once you fall back on that tired cliche revolutionary rhetoric, you've lost |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 03:25 PM |
#63 |
| -
LOL, neocon and realist are revolutionaly rhetoric? Someone call Colin Powell. |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 06:50 PM |
#73 |
| -
sure, when you simplify the argument down to "neocons v. realists" |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 07:00 PM |
#74 |
| -
Beinart was for war, but didn't wield the influence Bill did in urging Dems to support Bush on his |
blm |
Feb-18-09 12:36 PM |
#35 |
| -
Oh come on. That's not fair. |
Skwmom |
Feb-20-09 03:53 PM |
#164 |
| -
No. I judge stories I read on the merit |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:11 PM |
#75 |
| -
President Obama stands on his own. n/t |
firedupdem |
Feb-18-09 02:00 AM |
#5 |
| -
I don't think that Bill Clinton was a "panderer" |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-18-09 02:48 AM |
#6 |
| -
Clinton's "welfare DEform" left people with no help |
silverojo |
Feb-18-09 03:05 AM |
#7 |
| -
Federally measured poverty fell precipitously after "welfare reform" |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-18-09 03:07 AM |
#8 |
| -
Yes - but you had a booming economy that likely had more to do with that |
karynnj |
Feb-18-09 09:05 AM |
#12 |
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the tech bubble being responsible for the 90s economy is another rightwing talking point... |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 09:19 AM |
#20 |
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It is NOT a rightwing talking point |
karynnj |
Feb-18-09 10:36 AM |
#28 |
| -
sure it is. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 10:42 AM |
#29 |
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As I said, I did not say that it was the only thing |
karynnj |
Feb-18-09 11:43 AM |
#31 |
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you're right. You did say he benefited from it. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 11:49 AM |
#33 |
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An excellent analysis that deserves its own thread |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:21 PM |
#81 |
| -
Tell that to my tech stocks. eom |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-18-09 12:38 PM |
#36 |
| -
tell that to my career path in the 90s that had nothing to do with the tech bubble |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:13 PM |
#40 |
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Well, since your personal experience is universally applicable |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-18-09 01:21 PM |
#43 |
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as are your tech stocks. lol |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:22 PM |
#44 |
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Yeah. Ha ha ha. That was my retirement. |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-18-09 01:26 PM |
#45 |
| -
who's celebrating people's misfortune? |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:51 PM |
#49 |
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So previous welfare recipients made mad cash during the "tech bubble?" |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-18-09 12:33 PM |
#34 |
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The key phrase there is "federally measured" |
OwnedByFerrets |
Feb-19-09 01:34 PM |
#145 |
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Welfare from cradle to grave is no solution either. |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 09:22 AM |
#21 |
| -
It's better than mandatory wage slavery |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-18-09 04:34 PM |
#65 |
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My belief is that people should not receive welfare for life. |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 12:21 AM |
#115 |
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She tried to make money off the media sensation |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-19-09 08:46 AM |
#126 |
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I'm not calling for the children to be removed from her home |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 09:26 AM |
#131 |
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Because they don't want to pay for birth control! |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-19-09 02:47 PM |
#147 |
| -
Family Planning provides birth control |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 05:17 PM |
#148 |
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I have never heard of Family Planning |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-19-09 07:09 PM |
#150 |
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Oh geez, my bad!!! |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 11:21 PM |
#153 |
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Thanks, B |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-20-09 10:51 AM |
#159 |
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You're welcome. |
Beacool |
Feb-20-09 12:42 PM |
#160 |
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That's disgusting. Being required to work for less than minimum wage is slavery |
eridani |
Feb-19-09 01:54 AM |
#120 |
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Then they should get training and get their act together. |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 09:33 AM |
#132 |
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That is nonsense. The average welfare case file is less than two years |
eridani |
Feb-20-09 06:12 AM |
#157 |
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I didn't say that it was occurring at the moment. |
Beacool |
Feb-20-09 12:45 PM |
#161 |
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Yes, let's all train for high tech jobs |
eridani |
Feb-20-09 11:29 PM |
#166 |
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I think that handing out check after check, |
Beacool |
Feb-21-09 02:07 AM |
#168 |
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Bullshit. They hand out checks for 2 and 1/2 years on average. That isn't "year after year" |
eridani |
Feb-21-09 03:37 AM |
#173 |
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Yes, let's all train for high tech jobs |
eridani |
Feb-20-09 11:30 PM |
#167 |
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Welfare cost maybe $30 billion in federal money a year before Welfare Reform |
Hippo_Tron |
Feb-19-09 01:12 PM |
#141 |
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The Defense budget is an obscene joke. |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 05:26 PM |
#149 |
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Again, philosophically I agree with you |
Hippo_Tron |
Feb-19-09 08:11 PM |
#151 |
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OK, but what do you suggest? |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 11:33 PM |
#154 |
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I accept that there will inevitably be some free riders who won't get it together |
Hippo_Tron |
Feb-20-09 10:37 AM |
#158 |
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The writer does not try to justify welfare reform |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:15 PM |
#76 |
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I will love The Big Dog to the end of my days |
Skittles |
Feb-18-09 03:22 AM |
#9 |
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Hear, hear!!!!! |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 09:24 AM |
#22 |
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It's like not liking the Beatles. It's about all the bad music the Beatles rescued us from. Same |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 02:47 PM |
#56 |
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That's the spirit! |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:20 PM |
#80 |
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Well said!!!! |
Beacool |
Feb-21-09 02:12 AM |
#169 |
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Call me crazy but this doesn't sound like a positive article. Plenty of back-handed "compliments." |
Metric System |
Feb-18-09 08:41 AM |
#10 |
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I does not aim at complimenting anyone |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:23 PM |
#82 |
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The author was a neo-con from The New Republic |
karynnj |
Feb-18-09 08:58 AM |
#11 |
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Great post. |
bottomtheweaver |
Feb-21-09 02:30 AM |
#170 |
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Media consolidation, free trade, deregulation of the financial industry, etc. |
Skwmom |
Feb-18-09 09:07 AM |
#13 |
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"many would argue that he's really a Republican who ran as a Democrat)." No, not many. Just some on |
Metric System |
Feb-18-09 09:15 AM |
#18 |
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Define "far left". You sound like O'Reilly!! |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 10:29 AM |
#26 |
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I will |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:18 PM |
#42 |
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But what do you say to the Republicans I've heard who DID call Bill Clinton a Republican? |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 02:00 PM |
#53 |
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I would tell them they're full of shit |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 03:48 PM |
#64 |
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This is what I'm talking about, thanks to FLAProgressive... |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 07:28 PM |
#86 |
| -
what say me? |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 07:52 PM |
#92 |
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Are you serious? There has been a 30+ year war against progressivism in this country |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 08:07 PM |
#93 |
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of course I am. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 08:11 PM |
#94 |
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None of what you are saying makes sense. If you don't know the history of the Democratic |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 08:31 PM |
#96 |
| -
It makes no sense because you'll never see it on "progressive" blogs |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 08:46 PM |
#97 |
| -
I dispute two of those |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-18-09 10:16 PM |
#103 |
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The Repukes are now talking about nationalizing the banks! What's up their sleeves? |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 10:24 PM |
#105 |
| -
I think they are trying to prepare their base for it |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-18-09 10:52 PM |
#108 |
| -
Most of these Dems you mentioned are "progressives" |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-19-09 09:06 AM |
#127 |
| -
Like who? Let's roll through some facts |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 09:08 AM |
#128 |
| -
Again, you are on ignore. Bye-bye... |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-19-09 09:13 AM |
#129 |
| -
Imagine! A "progressive" ignoring a request for facts. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 09:17 AM |
#130 |
| -
Here is "The Far Left": |
bvar22 |
Feb-18-09 02:59 PM |
#60 |
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bvar, that doesn't seem so far, in fact that seems like the actual mainstream! |
Uncle Joe |
Feb-19-09 01:55 PM |
#146 |
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See wyldwolf's definition. Oh, and I sound like O'Reilly?!? Ugh. Unlike him I don't consider the |
Metric System |
Feb-18-09 03:03 PM |
#61 |
| -
No Republicans? Oh please, he's been adopted by the Bush family. |
Skwmom |
Feb-18-09 10:32 AM |
#27 |
| -
Rebuttal - with links |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:50 PM |
#48 |
| -
How many of those were pushed by the Republican congress and Senate |
Mr. Sparkle |
Feb-19-09 08:17 PM |
#152 |
| -
Pffffffffft! |
acmavm |
Feb-18-09 09:12 AM |
#14 |
| -
So he was so bad he was good? |
Every Man A King |
Feb-18-09 09:14 AM |
#16 |
| -
Are we bashing Bill again? |
Yes We Did |
Feb-18-09 09:15 AM |
#17 |
| -
Imagine That!!! |
polmaven |
Feb-18-09 09:38 AM |
#23 |
| -
So there can be Clinton bashers but not Obama bashers |
WI_DEM |
Feb-18-09 09:43 AM |
#24 |
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GWBush was critical to Obama becoming president. And winning Congress in '06. nt |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 02:49 PM |
#57 |
| -
That article is a load of bollocks. |
Spider Jerusalem |
Feb-18-09 10:20 AM |
#25 |
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The writer does not claim that these were good things |
question everything |
Feb-19-09 01:39 AM |
#119 |
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Clinton deserves to be bashed for giving the wingnuts the ammunition to impeach him. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:46 AM |
#30 |
| -
yeah, that must be why Hillary campaigned and fundraised for Obama |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 12:40 PM |
#37 |
| -
He chose her to keep her pissing out of the tent instead of into the tent |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 05:21 PM |
#69 |
| -
Holbrooke and Mitchell were her suggestions. |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 05:58 PM |
#71 |
| -
The were Obama's appointments, Obama chose them and chose to entrust |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 07:18 PM |
#78 |
| -
Nope, Hillary chose them. Obama approved them. |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 10:51 PM |
#107 |
| -
Good grief. That's not the point. Holbrooke and Mitchell report directly to President Obama. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 11:12 PM |
#111 |
| -
Wow! I haven't heard 'blame the victim' shit in years! thanks for the nostalgia trip! |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 02:49 PM |
#58 |
| -
Bill Clinton is no victim. He is a sexual predator that took advantage of a young intern. n/t |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 05:18 PM |
#68 |
| -
Um no. That's not how it worked. Sorry. nt |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 05:25 PM |
#70 |
| -
Your denial is wrong on so many levels. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 07:24 PM |
#84 |
| -
Wow |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-18-09 07:24 PM |
#83 |
| -
OK. Edit: "sexual opportunist" ... also I'll stipulate it is was instead of is. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:05 PM |
#101 |
| -
Yeah. That ship has sailed. |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-19-09 03:22 AM |
#122 |
| -
An older powerful man diddling an intern has that predatory stank, but "opportunist" will do. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 12:13 PM |
#135 |
| -
If Clinton is a sexual predator so was Ted Kennedy & JFK |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-18-09 07:44 PM |
#90 |
| -
I didn't suggest she was but you'd have to actually read further to ascertain that. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 07:48 PM |
#91 |
| -
your source is hysterical! A link to yourself!! LOL! |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 09:01 PM |
#98 |
| -
disputing what she suggested I said when I said quite the opposite ... LOL! |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:03 PM |
#100 |
| -
I did read further |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-18-09 10:19 PM |
#104 |
| -
Comparing him to Ted Kennedy and JFK doesn't mitigate what Clinton did. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:41 PM |
#106 |
| -
Doesn't mitigate what they did either |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-18-09 11:09 PM |
#110 |
| -
I did no such thing. Good grief. You are building a strawman to argue with. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 11:25 PM |
#112 |
| -
It has everything to do with the discussion |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-18-09 11:45 PM |
#114 |
| -
You argued the "she was asking for it" defense and you should be ashamed. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 12:07 PM |
#133 |
| -
I certainly love that you call a college graduate a "hoochie-mama" |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-19-09 03:39 AM |
#123 |
| -
that's what happens when you announce you're bringing knee pads to D.C. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 01:05 PM |
#139 |
| -
What Teddy did was inexcusable. |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 12:32 AM |
#116 |
| -
How many hours did it take Bill to fess up? |
bottomtheweaver |
Feb-21-09 02:36 AM |
#172 |
| -
Good grief, you're dragging in a CIA hit job to prop up your Clinton support? |
bottomtheweaver |
Feb-21-09 02:35 AM |
#171 |
| -
Clinton "derangement syndrome" strikes again. |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 06:03 PM |
#72 |
| -
Convenient buzz phrase to summarily dismiss people that don't agree with you. n/t |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 07:19 PM |
#79 |
| -
here's a quote for you... |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 09:06 PM |
#99 |
| -
Yes, I was you. Only on DU could this metamorphosis occur and I thank DU for that. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:10 PM |
#102 |
| -
A regression, yes |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 04:36 AM |
#124 |
| -
I stopped knee-jerk defending them and saw them in a critical light and not Clinton First mindset. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 12:11 PM |
#134 |
| -
what you call "knee jerk defense," others call "we've heard this bullshit before." |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 01:00 PM |
#136 |
| -
that's what happens when you persist in white-washing their record and actions n/t |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 01:02 PM |
#137 |
| -
that's what happens when you take paronoid fabrications and believe them with scant evidence |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 01:03 PM |
#138 |
| -
You have to open your eyes to see the truth. The proof has always been there. n/t |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 01:06 PM |
#140 |
| -
what proof? Your last reply reads like a cult recruitment technique |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 01:14 PM |
#142 |
| -
I don't have time to board your silly circuitous ride today, wolf. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 01:18 PM |
#143 |
| -
yeah, the cult leaders often say things like that to the non-believers |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 01:27 PM |
#144 |
| -
What propaganda? Your blanket nonspecific defense IS knee-jerk defending them. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-20-09 12:41 AM |
#155 |
| -
where did anyone say "propaganda?" |
wyldwolf |
Feb-20-09 05:52 AM |
#156 |
| -
Wow! Eye-opening! n/t |
rvablue |
Feb-20-09 04:01 PM |
#165 |
| -
What's with all the hero worshipping? |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Feb-18-09 11:45 AM |
#32 |
| -
Clinton is perhaps the most skilled politician of our time. Here's what he did right, and what he |
RBInMaine |
Feb-18-09 12:52 PM |
#39 |
| -
I agree with the content of your post but not the superlative in your title |
rvablue |
Feb-18-09 02:20 PM |
#55 |
| -
True. Clinton had no one to go to school on. Good point. nt |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 02:51 PM |
#59 |
| -
Obama has a way to go before we can judge. Yup, Bill did wrong, BUT the GOP attack machine was |
RBInMaine |
Feb-18-09 05:13 PM |
#67 |
| -
This is correct. Lee Atwater set his sights on him immediately |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:34 PM |
#87 |
| -
I'll always love Bill Clinton |
johan helge |
Feb-18-09 01:27 PM |
#46 |
| -
Hmm. I wonder if all those people who say it's creepy to say you "love" a politician |
DevonRex |
Feb-18-09 01:56 PM |
#51 |
| -
Once, some years ago, I actually dreamt |
johan helge |
Feb-18-09 03:20 PM |
#62 |
| -
Ah, jeez, thanks for reminding me. |
Skidmore |
Feb-18-09 02:07 PM |
#54 |
| -
"As it shows Clintonism the door" |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-18-09 04:42 PM |
#66 |
| -
Why bash Bill Clinton? Last time America had a good brain in |
JayMusgrove |
Feb-18-09 07:18 PM |
#77 |
| -
Critcizing Clinton does not equal bashing him |
progressiveforever |
Feb-18-09 07:25 PM |
#85 |
| -
I had a thread here the other day, that Bill was going to be interviewed |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:36 PM |
#88 |
| -
That's a shame |
progressiveforever |
Feb-18-09 10:58 PM |
#109 |
| -
very interesting article - thanks for posting |
spooky3 |
Feb-18-09 07:40 PM |
#89 |
| -
I don't like the term "owe" in that context |
ecstatic |
Feb-18-09 08:20 PM |
#95 |
| -
You are probably right |
question everything |
Feb-19-09 01:15 AM |
#118 |
| -
Link, please, to supposed "Bill Clinton hater" posts? I haven't seen any. |
Honeycombe8 |
Feb-18-09 11:27 PM |
#113 |
| -
Here is one |
question everything |
Feb-19-09 01:11 AM |
#117 |
| -
Well, bully for the upper half of the income distribution. Aren't they all just IT? |
eridani |
Feb-19-09 02:12 AM |
#121 |
| -
Well then ... |
GeorgeGist |
Feb-19-09 06:15 AM |
#125 |
| -
Bill Clinton went with Wall Street and look at the end result. |
Skwmom |
Feb-20-09 03:24 PM |
#162 |
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