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Wed Feb-18-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
| 73. LOL, neocon and realist are revolutionaly rhetoric? Someone call Colin Powell. |
| -For the Bill Clinton bashers |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 12:59 AM |
#0 |
 -
wow thatll change their minds |
iamthebandfanman |
Feb-18-09 01:07 AM |
#1 |
  -
Here.... This Helps. |
Yes We Did |
Feb-18-09 09:14 AM |
#15 |
| -
C'mon . . . just because the OP respects Bill Clinton doesn't mean s/he's picking a fight . . . |
MrModerate |
Feb-18-09 01:19 AM |
#2 |
| -
Do we "Owe" the Clinton's too, or have they been compensated |
FrenchieCat |
Feb-18-09 01:38 AM |
#3 |
| -
Well. Bill is making millions in "speaking fees," so I'd say he's been more than |
Skwmom |
Feb-20-09 03:27 PM |
#163 |
| -
Do you know who Beinart is? He's a MAJOR hawk who says Dems should support the Iraq war & the surge |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 01:56 AM |
#4 |
| -
Beinart recanted his backing of the war long ago. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 09:18 AM |
#19 |
| -
"Admit It: The Surge Worked" -- January 18, 2009 |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 12:47 PM |
#38 |
| -
"I think that the surge succeeded beyond our wildest dreams" - Obama, Sept. 2008 |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:15 PM |
#41 |
| -
Context. Obama was saying conditions made the surge succeed beyond his estimates. |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 01:31 PM |
#47 |
| -
the motives of the two are irrelevant |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:55 PM |
#50 |
| -
Context does matter, because it distinguishes neocons from realists. |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 01:58 PM |
#52 |
| -
once you fall back on that tired cliche revolutionary rhetoric, you've lost |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 03:25 PM |
#63 |
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LOL, neocon and realist are revolutionaly rhetoric? Someone call Colin Powell. |
camera obscura |
Feb-18-09 06:50 PM |
#73 |
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sure, when you simplify the argument down to "neocons v. realists" |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 07:00 PM |
#74 |
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Beinart was for war, but didn't wield the influence Bill did in urging Dems to support Bush on his |
blm |
Feb-18-09 12:36 PM |
#35 |
| -
Oh come on. That's not fair. |
Skwmom |
Feb-20-09 03:53 PM |
#164 |
| -
No. I judge stories I read on the merit |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:11 PM |
#75 |
| -
President Obama stands on his own. n/t |
firedupdem |
Feb-18-09 02:00 AM |
#5 |
| -
I don't think that Bill Clinton was a "panderer" |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-18-09 02:48 AM |
#6 |
| -
Clinton's "welfare DEform" left people with no help |
silverojo |
Feb-18-09 03:05 AM |
#7 |
| -
Federally measured poverty fell precipitously after "welfare reform" |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-18-09 03:07 AM |
#8 |
| -
Yes - but you had a booming economy that likely had more to do with that |
karynnj |
Feb-18-09 09:05 AM |
#12 |
| -
the tech bubble being responsible for the 90s economy is another rightwing talking point... |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 09:19 AM |
#20 |
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It is NOT a rightwing talking point |
karynnj |
Feb-18-09 10:36 AM |
#28 |
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sure it is. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 10:42 AM |
#29 |
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As I said, I did not say that it was the only thing |
karynnj |
Feb-18-09 11:43 AM |
#31 |
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you're right. You did say he benefited from it. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 11:49 AM |
#33 |
| -
An excellent analysis that deserves its own thread |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:21 PM |
#81 |
| -
Tell that to my tech stocks. eom |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-18-09 12:38 PM |
#36 |
| -
tell that to my career path in the 90s that had nothing to do with the tech bubble |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:13 PM |
#40 |
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Well, since your personal experience is universally applicable |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-18-09 01:21 PM |
#43 |
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as are your tech stocks. lol |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:22 PM |
#44 |
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Yeah. Ha ha ha. That was my retirement. |
Hello_Kitty |
Feb-18-09 01:26 PM |
#45 |
| -
who's celebrating people's misfortune? |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:51 PM |
#49 |
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So previous welfare recipients made mad cash during the "tech bubble?" |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-18-09 12:33 PM |
#34 |
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The key phrase there is "federally measured" |
OwnedByFerrets |
Feb-19-09 01:34 PM |
#145 |
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Welfare from cradle to grave is no solution either. |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 09:22 AM |
#21 |
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It's better than mandatory wage slavery |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-18-09 04:34 PM |
#65 |
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My belief is that people should not receive welfare for life. |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 12:21 AM |
#115 |
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She tried to make money off the media sensation |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-19-09 08:46 AM |
#126 |
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I'm not calling for the children to be removed from her home |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 09:26 AM |
#131 |
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Because they don't want to pay for birth control! |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-19-09 02:47 PM |
#147 |
| -
Family Planning provides birth control |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 05:17 PM |
#148 |
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I have never heard of Family Planning |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-19-09 07:09 PM |
#150 |
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Oh geez, my bad!!! |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 11:21 PM |
#153 |
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Thanks, B |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-20-09 10:51 AM |
#159 |
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You're welcome. |
Beacool |
Feb-20-09 12:42 PM |
#160 |
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That's disgusting. Being required to work for less than minimum wage is slavery |
eridani |
Feb-19-09 01:54 AM |
#120 |
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Then they should get training and get their act together. |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 09:33 AM |
#132 |
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That is nonsense. The average welfare case file is less than two years |
eridani |
Feb-20-09 06:12 AM |
#157 |
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I didn't say that it was occurring at the moment. |
Beacool |
Feb-20-09 12:45 PM |
#161 |
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Yes, let's all train for high tech jobs |
eridani |
Feb-20-09 11:29 PM |
#166 |
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I think that handing out check after check, |
Beacool |
Feb-21-09 02:07 AM |
#168 |
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Bullshit. They hand out checks for 2 and 1/2 years on average. That isn't "year after year" |
eridani |
Feb-21-09 03:37 AM |
#173 |
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Yes, let's all train for high tech jobs |
eridani |
Feb-20-09 11:30 PM |
#167 |
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Welfare cost maybe $30 billion in federal money a year before Welfare Reform |
Hippo_Tron |
Feb-19-09 01:12 PM |
#141 |
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The Defense budget is an obscene joke. |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 05:26 PM |
#149 |
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Again, philosophically I agree with you |
Hippo_Tron |
Feb-19-09 08:11 PM |
#151 |
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OK, but what do you suggest? |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 11:33 PM |
#154 |
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I accept that there will inevitably be some free riders who won't get it together |
Hippo_Tron |
Feb-20-09 10:37 AM |
#158 |
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The writer does not try to justify welfare reform |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:15 PM |
#76 |
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I will love The Big Dog to the end of my days |
Skittles |
Feb-18-09 03:22 AM |
#9 |
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Hear, hear!!!!! |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 09:24 AM |
#22 |
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It's like not liking the Beatles. It's about all the bad music the Beatles rescued us from. Same |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 02:47 PM |
#56 |
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That's the spirit! |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:20 PM |
#80 |
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Well said!!!! |
Beacool |
Feb-21-09 02:12 AM |
#169 |
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Call me crazy but this doesn't sound like a positive article. Plenty of back-handed "compliments." |
Metric System |
Feb-18-09 08:41 AM |
#10 |
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I does not aim at complimenting anyone |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:23 PM |
#82 |
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The author was a neo-con from The New Republic |
karynnj |
Feb-18-09 08:58 AM |
#11 |
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Great post. |
bottomtheweaver |
Feb-21-09 02:30 AM |
#170 |
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Media consolidation, free trade, deregulation of the financial industry, etc. |
Skwmom |
Feb-18-09 09:07 AM |
#13 |
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"many would argue that he's really a Republican who ran as a Democrat)." No, not many. Just some on |
Metric System |
Feb-18-09 09:15 AM |
#18 |
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Define "far left". You sound like O'Reilly!! |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 10:29 AM |
#26 |
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I will |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:18 PM |
#42 |
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But what do you say to the Republicans I've heard who DID call Bill Clinton a Republican? |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 02:00 PM |
#53 |
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I would tell them they're full of shit |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 03:48 PM |
#64 |
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This is what I'm talking about, thanks to FLAProgressive... |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 07:28 PM |
#86 |
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what say me? |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 07:52 PM |
#92 |
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Are you serious? There has been a 30+ year war against progressivism in this country |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 08:07 PM |
#93 |
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of course I am. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 08:11 PM |
#94 |
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None of what you are saying makes sense. If you don't know the history of the Democratic |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 08:31 PM |
#96 |
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It makes no sense because you'll never see it on "progressive" blogs |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 08:46 PM |
#97 |
| -
I dispute two of those |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-18-09 10:16 PM |
#103 |
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The Repukes are now talking about nationalizing the banks! What's up their sleeves? |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-18-09 10:24 PM |
#105 |
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I think they are trying to prepare their base for it |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-18-09 10:52 PM |
#108 |
| -
Most of these Dems you mentioned are "progressives" |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-19-09 09:06 AM |
#127 |
| -
Like who? Let's roll through some facts |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 09:08 AM |
#128 |
| -
Again, you are on ignore. Bye-bye... |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Feb-19-09 09:13 AM |
#129 |
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Imagine! A "progressive" ignoring a request for facts. |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 09:17 AM |
#130 |
| -
Here is "The Far Left": |
bvar22 |
Feb-18-09 02:59 PM |
#60 |
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bvar, that doesn't seem so far, in fact that seems like the actual mainstream! |
Uncle Joe |
Feb-19-09 01:55 PM |
#146 |
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See wyldwolf's definition. Oh, and I sound like O'Reilly?!? Ugh. Unlike him I don't consider the |
Metric System |
Feb-18-09 03:03 PM |
#61 |
| -
No Republicans? Oh please, he's been adopted by the Bush family. |
Skwmom |
Feb-18-09 10:32 AM |
#27 |
| -
Rebuttal - with links |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 01:50 PM |
#48 |
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How many of those were pushed by the Republican congress and Senate |
Mr. Sparkle |
Feb-19-09 08:17 PM |
#152 |
| -
Pffffffffft! |
acmavm |
Feb-18-09 09:12 AM |
#14 |
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So he was so bad he was good? |
Every Man A King |
Feb-18-09 09:14 AM |
#16 |
| -
Are we bashing Bill again? |
Yes We Did |
Feb-18-09 09:15 AM |
#17 |
| -
Imagine That!!! |
polmaven |
Feb-18-09 09:38 AM |
#23 |
| -
So there can be Clinton bashers but not Obama bashers |
WI_DEM |
Feb-18-09 09:43 AM |
#24 |
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GWBush was critical to Obama becoming president. And winning Congress in '06. nt |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 02:49 PM |
#57 |
| -
That article is a load of bollocks. |
Spider Jerusalem |
Feb-18-09 10:20 AM |
#25 |
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The writer does not claim that these were good things |
question everything |
Feb-19-09 01:39 AM |
#119 |
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Clinton deserves to be bashed for giving the wingnuts the ammunition to impeach him. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:46 AM |
#30 |
| -
yeah, that must be why Hillary campaigned and fundraised for Obama |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 12:40 PM |
#37 |
| -
He chose her to keep her pissing out of the tent instead of into the tent |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 05:21 PM |
#69 |
| -
Holbrooke and Mitchell were her suggestions. |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 05:58 PM |
#71 |
| -
The were Obama's appointments, Obama chose them and chose to entrust |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 07:18 PM |
#78 |
| -
Nope, Hillary chose them. Obama approved them. |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 10:51 PM |
#107 |
| -
Good grief. That's not the point. Holbrooke and Mitchell report directly to President Obama. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 11:12 PM |
#111 |
| -
Wow! I haven't heard 'blame the victim' shit in years! thanks for the nostalgia trip! |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 02:49 PM |
#58 |
| -
Bill Clinton is no victim. He is a sexual predator that took advantage of a young intern. n/t |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 05:18 PM |
#68 |
| -
Um no. That's not how it worked. Sorry. nt |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 05:25 PM |
#70 |
| -
Your denial is wrong on so many levels. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 07:24 PM |
#84 |
| -
Wow |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-18-09 07:24 PM |
#83 |
| -
OK. Edit: "sexual opportunist" ... also I'll stipulate it is was instead of is. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:05 PM |
#101 |
| -
Yeah. That ship has sailed. |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-19-09 03:22 AM |
#122 |
| -
An older powerful man diddling an intern has that predatory stank, but "opportunist" will do. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 12:13 PM |
#135 |
| -
If Clinton is a sexual predator so was Ted Kennedy & JFK |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-18-09 07:44 PM |
#90 |
| -
I didn't suggest she was but you'd have to actually read further to ascertain that. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 07:48 PM |
#91 |
| -
your source is hysterical! A link to yourself!! LOL! |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 09:01 PM |
#98 |
| -
disputing what she suggested I said when I said quite the opposite ... LOL! |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:03 PM |
#100 |
| -
I did read further |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-18-09 10:19 PM |
#104 |
| -
Comparing him to Ted Kennedy and JFK doesn't mitigate what Clinton did. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:41 PM |
#106 |
| -
Doesn't mitigate what they did either |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-18-09 11:09 PM |
#110 |
| -
I did no such thing. Good grief. You are building a strawman to argue with. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 11:25 PM |
#112 |
| -
It has everything to do with the discussion |
girl_interrupted |
Feb-18-09 11:45 PM |
#114 |
| -
You argued the "she was asking for it" defense and you should be ashamed. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 12:07 PM |
#133 |
| -
I certainly love that you call a college graduate a "hoochie-mama" |
PBS Poll-435 |
Feb-19-09 03:39 AM |
#123 |
| -
that's what happens when you announce you're bringing knee pads to D.C. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 01:05 PM |
#139 |
| -
What Teddy did was inexcusable. |
Beacool |
Feb-19-09 12:32 AM |
#116 |
| -
How many hours did it take Bill to fess up? |
bottomtheweaver |
Feb-21-09 02:36 AM |
#172 |
| -
Good grief, you're dragging in a CIA hit job to prop up your Clinton support? |
bottomtheweaver |
Feb-21-09 02:35 AM |
#171 |
| -
Clinton "derangement syndrome" strikes again. |
Beacool |
Feb-18-09 06:03 PM |
#72 |
| -
Convenient buzz phrase to summarily dismiss people that don't agree with you. n/t |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 07:19 PM |
#79 |
| -
here's a quote for you... |
wyldwolf |
Feb-18-09 09:06 PM |
#99 |
| -
Yes, I was you. Only on DU could this metamorphosis occur and I thank DU for that. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-18-09 10:10 PM |
#102 |
| -
A regression, yes |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 04:36 AM |
#124 |
| -
I stopped knee-jerk defending them and saw them in a critical light and not Clinton First mindset. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 12:11 PM |
#134 |
| -
what you call "knee jerk defense," others call "we've heard this bullshit before." |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 01:00 PM |
#136 |
| -
that's what happens when you persist in white-washing their record and actions n/t |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 01:02 PM |
#137 |
| -
that's what happens when you take paronoid fabrications and believe them with scant evidence |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 01:03 PM |
#138 |
| -
You have to open your eyes to see the truth. The proof has always been there. n/t |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 01:06 PM |
#140 |
| -
what proof? Your last reply reads like a cult recruitment technique |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 01:14 PM |
#142 |
| -
I don't have time to board your silly circuitous ride today, wolf. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-19-09 01:18 PM |
#143 |
| -
yeah, the cult leaders often say things like that to the non-believers |
wyldwolf |
Feb-19-09 01:27 PM |
#144 |
| -
What propaganda? Your blanket nonspecific defense IS knee-jerk defending them. |
AtomicKitten |
Feb-20-09 12:41 AM |
#155 |
| -
where did anyone say "propaganda?" |
wyldwolf |
Feb-20-09 05:52 AM |
#156 |
| -
Wow! Eye-opening! n/t |
rvablue |
Feb-20-09 04:01 PM |
#165 |
| -
What's with all the hero worshipping? |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Feb-18-09 11:45 AM |
#32 |
| -
Clinton is perhaps the most skilled politician of our time. Here's what he did right, and what he |
RBInMaine |
Feb-18-09 12:52 PM |
#39 |
| -
I agree with the content of your post but not the superlative in your title |
rvablue |
Feb-18-09 02:20 PM |
#55 |
| -
True. Clinton had no one to go to school on. Good point. nt |
Captain Hilts |
Feb-18-09 02:51 PM |
#59 |
| -
Obama has a way to go before we can judge. Yup, Bill did wrong, BUT the GOP attack machine was |
RBInMaine |
Feb-18-09 05:13 PM |
#67 |
| -
This is correct. Lee Atwater set his sights on him immediately |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:34 PM |
#87 |
| -
I'll always love Bill Clinton |
johan helge |
Feb-18-09 01:27 PM |
#46 |
| -
Hmm. I wonder if all those people who say it's creepy to say you "love" a politician |
DevonRex |
Feb-18-09 01:56 PM |
#51 |
| -
Once, some years ago, I actually dreamt |
johan helge |
Feb-18-09 03:20 PM |
#62 |
| -
Ah, jeez, thanks for reminding me. |
Skidmore |
Feb-18-09 02:07 PM |
#54 |
| -
"As it shows Clintonism the door" |
Lilith Velkor |
Feb-18-09 04:42 PM |
#66 |
| -
Why bash Bill Clinton? Last time America had a good brain in |
JayMusgrove |
Feb-18-09 07:18 PM |
#77 |
| -
Critcizing Clinton does not equal bashing him |
progressiveforever |
Feb-18-09 07:25 PM |
#85 |
| -
I had a thread here the other day, that Bill was going to be interviewed |
question everything |
Feb-18-09 07:36 PM |
#88 |
| -
That's a shame |
progressiveforever |
Feb-18-09 10:58 PM |
#109 |
| -
very interesting article - thanks for posting |
spooky3 |
Feb-18-09 07:40 PM |
#89 |
| -
I don't like the term "owe" in that context |
ecstatic |
Feb-18-09 08:20 PM |
#95 |
| -
You are probably right |
question everything |
Feb-19-09 01:15 AM |
#118 |
| -
Link, please, to supposed "Bill Clinton hater" posts? I haven't seen any. |
Honeycombe8 |
Feb-18-09 11:27 PM |
#113 |
| -
Here is one |
question everything |
Feb-19-09 01:11 AM |
#117 |
| -
Well, bully for the upper half of the income distribution. Aren't they all just IT? |
eridani |
Feb-19-09 02:12 AM |
#121 |
| -
Well then ... |
GeorgeGist |
Feb-19-09 06:15 AM |
#125 |
| -
Bill Clinton went with Wall Street and look at the end result. |
Skwmom |
Feb-20-09 03:24 PM |
#162 |
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