Bonobo
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Mon Jan-19-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #50 |
| 54. It doesn't matter what you call it. It exists anyway. |
|
Please address my "denounce" post. (eg. How can you do anything but entrench their position if you DENOUNCE them as evil rats?)
We are talking about strategy for change here. If we both want it, that is.
|
| -For change to happen, the "other side" is EXACTLY who you must talk to. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 08:57 PM |
#0 |
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Fuck the "other side". |
Tilion |
Jan-19-09 08:58 PM |
#1 |
  -
I agree! |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 10:03 PM |
#92 |
| -
Tilion? |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 10:07 PM |
#94 |
| -
How many times does the distinction between TALK and HONOR need to be made? |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 08:59 PM |
#2 |
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Distinction without a difference. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:00 PM |
#5 |
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No it isn't. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:02 PM |
#8 |
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Yes, Warren IS entitled to his own perspective. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:06 PM |
#13 |
| -
What? |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:08 PM |
#19 |
| -
He is not on my pedestal. Is he on yours? No. So who exactly is putting him on a pedestal? |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:12 PM |
#23 |
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Don't be so naive. People will see the inauguration, they'll see his association with BO, |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:16 PM |
#31 |
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On the completely other hand... |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:18 PM |
#34 |
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His ideas are nothing new, and no one, least of all Obama will denounce him for them |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:23 PM |
#42 |
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I didn't say people should listen to his perspective. I said he had a right to it. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:25 PM |
#45 |
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To even call it a perspective is a dangerous lie. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:29 PM |
#50 |
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It doesn't matter what you call it. It exists anyway. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:33 PM |
#54 |
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It does matter what you call it. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:15 PM |
#103 |
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Was just discussing this with my daughter. |
elleng |
Jan-19-09 09:00 PM |
#3 |
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have we not fucking learned anything? |
Skittles |
Jan-19-09 09:00 PM |
#4 |
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Amen! |
Tilion |
Jan-19-09 09:02 PM |
#7 |
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That's what |
Andy823 |
Jan-19-09 09:04 PM |
#10 |
| -
Thanks, Andy. |
elleng |
Jan-19-09 09:16 PM |
#30 |
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Funny, I want to say the exact same thing to you! |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:05 PM |
#11 |
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Shoving the other person's face in the fucking dirt? |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:06 PM |
#15 |
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No, we are winning. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:08 PM |
# |
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No, you seem determined to blame the people who are under attack |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:09 PM |
#20 |
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Gay marriage is increasingly becoming inevitable. So how are we losing? |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:11 PM |
#21 |
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California. That's how! |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:12 PM |
#24 |
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It would not pass if the vote were tomorrow. And it will come up again, and soon. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:13 PM |
#27 |
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And Rick Warren will be there to fight against it, with an even larger set of devotees |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:27 PM |
#46 |
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Totally wrong. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:29 PM |
#49 |
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Hit a wall, did you? |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:29 PM |
#51 |
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Not really, but I can't figure why you think there would be more... |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:31 PM |
#53 |
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And Obama's own words were used to help pass Prop 8. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:34 PM |
#56 |
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I have reached a wall here on this point. But not on the larger point. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:36 PM |
#61 |
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We'll fight harder, have more on our side. |
NYC_SKP |
Jan-19-09 09:36 PM |
#60 |
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So far Democratic appeasement and fear of engagement on GLBT rights |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:46 PM |
#75 |
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What about the people in California? |
stillcool47 |
Jan-19-09 09:44 PM |
#74 |
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California's gonna come around, and it will be truth and reason that will turn it. |
NYC_SKP |
Jan-19-09 09:55 PM |
#85 |
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I was shocked...never in a million years.. |
stillcool47 |
Jan-19-09 10:48 PM |
#135 |
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The pro 8 ad campaign was huge and clever. |
NYC_SKP |
Jan-19-09 11:01 PM |
#144 |
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THE CALIFORNIA COURT THREW IT OUT ALREADY!! |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 10:20 PM |
#108 |
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What? No they didn't. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:22 PM |
#110 |
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WHAT!!! Yes it did!!! :) |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 10:48 PM |
#136 |
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that's from May 2008 |
stillcool47 |
Jan-19-09 10:51 PM |
#139 |
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Ahhh. Me Bad!! |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 11:09 PM |
#147 |
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That's the original decision undone by Prop 8. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 11:08 PM |
#146 |
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Obama kissing repuke ass will get us NOTHING |
Skittles |
Jan-19-09 09:08 PM |
#18 |
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Invite them along, and if they don't want to come, sucks to be them |
Chulanowa |
Jan-19-09 09:35 PM |
#58 |
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Our way or the highway. Love it or leave it. Sure. nt |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:41 PM |
#70 |
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Not exactly |
Chulanowa |
Jan-19-09 09:46 PM |
#77 |
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I agree with lots of what you said. Especially abvout what constitutes the center. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:55 PM |
#86 |
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Just wanted to say.. |
ravencalling |
Jan-20-09 07:25 AM |
#159 |
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Out of curiosity, how do you propose we take back America from them? |
Hippo_Tron |
Jan-19-09 09:39 PM |
#66 |
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I thought we did when we won the presidency and solid majorities in both houses of Congress. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:16 PM |
#104 |
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Well we won them in part due to massive outreach efforts to religious voters |
Hippo_Tron |
Jan-19-09 10:19 PM |
#107 |
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LOL. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:23 PM |
#113 |
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One step at a time........ |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 10:32 PM |
#122 |
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PROSECUTE THE BASTARDS |
Skittles |
Jan-20-09 04:45 AM |
#157 |
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Absolutely! |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 10:14 PM |
#101 |
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No, we have learned nothing |
Lorien |
Jan-19-09 11:13 PM |
#150 |
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Obama can kiss my Sweet Bippy! |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 11:20 PM |
#152 |
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I agree with you, |
Andy823 |
Jan-19-09 09:01 PM |
#6 |
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Winnings good. Thanks. |
geckosfeet |
Jan-19-09 09:03 PM |
#9 |
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No it means |
Andy823 |
Jan-19-09 09:06 PM |
#14 |
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Many of them have proved that they will not work with the other side. |
geckosfeet |
Jan-19-09 09:18 PM |
#36 |
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Anyone with any experience with at-risk youth would agree with you. |
NYC_SKP |
Jan-19-09 09:05 PM |
#12 |
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Thank you so much. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:07 PM |
#17 |
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Great post. |
Number23 |
Jan-19-09 09:13 PM |
#26 |
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The republican party is dead. Bury them. |
Lint Head |
Jan-19-09 09:07 PM |
#16 |
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No, the OP would rather resurrect them and pay heed to their "perspectives" |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:11 PM |
#22 |
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Ridiculous and patently untrue. Now you are creating out of whole cloth. nt |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:13 PM |
#25 |
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There's a word that persists here, |
elleng |
Jan-19-09 09:13 PM |
#28 |
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True, that. |
NYC_SKP |
Jan-19-09 09:17 PM |
#32 |
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To the naysayers, meeting hatred with hatred will never, ever, succeed. |
NYC_SKP |
Jan-19-09 09:13 PM |
#29 |
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It's easy to be sanguine when you're not being attacked |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:18 PM |
#35 |
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Rick Warren may not. But what if we can tear away 20% of his "followers"? Or even 10%? |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:21 PM |
#40 |
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How can you possibly tear away his followers when you don't want to offend them |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:25 PM |
#44 |
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Rather than "denouncing them", which would only force them to entrench their position... |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:28 PM |
#48 |
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LOL. You really have no idea what we're dealing with. The kind of self-reinforcing mindfuck. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:33 PM |
#55 |
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Yes, some of them are just like that. But surely even you don't think it is all of them, do you? |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:38 PM |
# |
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I can't say whether it is in fact all of them. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:54 PM |
#83 |
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Obama's approach is counterintuitive in that sense, I suppose. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:01 PM |
#89 |
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Making Warren more of a celebrity will help consolidate power behind him. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:13 PM |
#99 |
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By all means, yes, reframe the issue. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:19 PM |
#105 |
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There is no grey when it comes to equality. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:31 PM |
#120 |
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I agree. |
NYC_SKP |
Jan-19-09 09:30 PM |
#52 |
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I also want to add that I agree. I do not understand how painful it must be, Harvey. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:35 PM |
#57 |
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Please don't condescend to me. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:38 PM |
#64 |
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I apologize if it came off that way. Not intended at all. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:39 PM |
#68 |
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I am not irrational. Quite the opposite. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 09:35 PM |
#59 |
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Again, I agree. |
NYC_SKP |
Jan-19-09 09:43 PM |
#72 |
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You think that you represent progressives and liberals? |
Balderdash |
Jan-19-09 09:37 PM |
#63 |
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Give me one thing to respect Warren for. |
Luminous Animal |
Jan-19-09 09:55 PM |
#84 |
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Who said anything about respecting him? |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:09 PM |
#97 |
| -
NYC_SKP |
Luminous Animal |
Jan-19-09 10:22 PM |
#111 |
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Refusing to submit to bullying = "hatred" |
eridani |
Jan-19-09 10:27 PM |
#115 |
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Executions seem to work just fine!! |
shintao |
Jan-19-09 11:15 PM |
#151 |
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How do you reason with people who are not reasonable in the first place? |
Sebastian Doyle |
Jan-19-09 09:17 PM |
#33 |
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One essential logical fallacy in your thinking, if you will forgive me for saying so. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:21 PM |
#37 |
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Right on |
Hell_If_I_Know |
Jan-19-09 09:22 PM |
#41 |
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Warren will not change... |
Luminous Animal |
Jan-19-09 10:15 PM |
#102 |
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Any "sane" republicans that still existed probably are not Repukes anymore. |
Sebastian Doyle |
Jan-19-09 11:24 PM |
#153 |
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Very good point, Bonobo |
Hell_If_I_Know |
Jan-19-09 09:21 PM |
#38 |
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There it is! Take the issue, any issue; your issue whomever you are... |
bridgit |
Jan-19-09 09:21 PM |
#39 |
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Yes indeed. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:23 PM |
#43 |
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Yep, peace, cheers, thanks *and* for you...'the big one'! |
bridgit |
Jan-19-09 09:27 PM |
#47 |
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Leviticus 20:13 |
JeffreyWilliamson |
Jan-19-09 09:37 PM |
#62 |
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"They"? |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:40 PM |
#69 |
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Yes "They"... |
JeffreyWilliamson |
Jan-19-09 09:46 PM |
#76 |
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A really excellent point. Quite right. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:49 PM |
#80 |
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I'll concede that in a general sense, because I agree in that general sense... |
JeffreyWilliamson |
Jan-19-09 09:56 PM |
#88 |
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Sounds like we really agree with each other. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:08 PM |
#96 |
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Okay, I'll not only concede a point, I'll agree... |
JeffreyWilliamson |
Jan-19-09 10:32 PM |
#121 |
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You must be fucking joking |
TOJ |
Jan-19-09 09:39 PM |
#65 |
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If you want to pass legislation |
stillcool47 |
Jan-19-09 09:39 PM |
#67 |
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YES, with one caveat: |
janx |
Jan-19-09 09:43 PM |
#71 |
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Good point. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:44 PM |
#73 |
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I understand and appreciate that! |
janx |
Jan-19-09 09:55 PM |
#87 |
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The Art of Politics is lost |
stillcool47 |
Jan-19-09 09:46 PM |
#78 |
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Right, and it's not just politics. |
janx |
Jan-19-09 10:19 PM |
#106 |
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many of them don't 'do' anything either.. |
stillcool47 |
Jan-19-09 11:01 PM |
#143 |
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The truth and a lie are not two "sides" of the same issue. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:04 PM |
#93 |
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First of all, the other side would not admit that they "hate" anyone. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:14 PM |
#100 |
| -
We ARE better than they are. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:21 PM |
#109 |
| -
Again, totally agree. 100% percent. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:24 PM |
#114 |
| -
This isn't therapy, this is politics. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:29 PM |
#117 |
| -
Forgiveness doesn't have anything to do with it. Pragmatism does. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:33 PM |
#123 |
| -
I said it's not your place to forgive and to encourage empathy |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:39 PM |
#129 |
| -
I hear you loud and clear. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:43 PM |
#131 |
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Why? We've reached no resolution. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:45 PM |
#132 |
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No, we have not reached resolution. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:48 PM |
#134 |
| -
It's not a different point of view; it's ignorance. |
janx |
Jan-19-09 10:28 PM |
#116 |
| -
While your point is well taken (obvious) |
HughMoran |
Jan-19-09 09:48 PM |
#79 |
| -
I am sorry you don't like my style but that is really beside the point. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 09:50 PM |
#81 |
| -
I was teasing you |
HughMoran |
Jan-19-09 09:52 PM |
#82 |
| -
OK, but my OP was so short... |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:03 PM |
#91 |
| -
Well, I did start off by agreeing with you |
HughMoran |
Jan-19-09 10:07 PM |
#95 |
| -
Talking to your own side has its occasional merits, too... |
PurityOfEssence |
Jan-19-09 10:01 PM |
#90 |
| -
Obama is uniting the nation... |
Life Long Dem |
Jan-19-09 10:10 PM |
#98 |
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I TOTALLY agree with you! |
RichGirl |
Jan-19-09 10:23 PM |
#112 |
| -
Some things aren't up for discussion such as the Constitution, |
mmonk |
Jan-19-09 10:29 PM |
#118 |
| -
Unless you are ready to kill, EVERYTHING is up for discussion. nt |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:38 PM |
#127 |
| -
I will not bend over and kiss any tyrant's ass. Sorry. |
mmonk |
Jan-20-09 07:57 AM |
#160 |
| -
Not when the other side has ZERO interest in changing |
dbackjon |
Jan-19-09 10:31 PM |
#119 |
| -
Again I ask: Are you sure that "THEY" will never change? |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:35 PM |
#124 |
| -
Not really. having dealt with these assholes all my life |
dbackjon |
Jan-19-09 11:38 PM |
#154 |
| -
I hate to burst your bubble |
Dreamer Tatum |
Jan-19-09 10:36 PM |
#125 |
| -
Whew! A clear thinker! Bravo! |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:38 PM |
#126 |
| -
Just doin' my part nt |
Dreamer Tatum |
Jan-19-09 10:39 PM |
#128 |
| -
As opposed to the unclear thinkers who don't agree with you? |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:42 PM |
#130 |
| -
Obviously... |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:46 PM |
#133 |
| -
There are people on both sides who are utterly destroyed |
Dreamer Tatum |
Jan-19-09 10:50 PM |
#137 |
| -
Okay. |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:50 PM |
#138 |
| -
Well, you may be right. |
Bonobo |
Jan-19-09 10:52 PM |
#140 |
| -
Ha! |
Harvey Korman |
Jan-19-09 10:54 PM |
#141 |
| -
those that were in favor of.. |
stillcool47 |
Jan-19-09 10:57 PM |
#142 |
| -
I agree. |
Undercurrent |
Jan-19-09 11:06 PM |
#145 |
| -
If you talk to them and convince them that the Democratic positions are |
Lorien |
Jan-19-09 11:10 PM |
#148 |
| -
I guess so, |
leftofthedial |
Jan-19-09 11:11 PM |
#149 |
| -
I disagree completely. |
girl gone mad |
Jan-19-09 11:40 PM |
#155 |
| -
Hahahahahaha. |
Evoman |
Jan-19-09 11:41 PM |
#156 |
| -
so stupid. nt |
lionesspriyanka |
Jan-20-09 04:47 AM |
#158 |
| -
That's just a slogan. Its not true and never has been - nt |
sampsonblk |
Jan-20-09 08:01 AM |
#161 |
| -
I wholeheartedly agree! |
Th1onein |
Jan-20-09 11:39 AM |
#162 |
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