| 55. What are you trying to accomplish? |
|
You are not going to shun your enemies into agreeing with you. It just enrages them more and creates more division.
It was like what Obama was saying about actually talking to our enemies around the world, instead of expecting that giving them the cold shoulder actually accomplishes something. You have to treat the situation diplomatically, instead of ignoring the problem and waging war.
If you can find common ground with people and highlight common interest, and starts the discussions that lead to more understanding and tolerance, and you have a much better chance of changing their perceptions. Most bigotry stems from ignorance, not an inherent evilness, so try to find the way to change people's perceptions without demonizing them at the same time.
|
| -The more I hear both sides complain, the more I like Obama's choice of Rick Warren |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 12:12 PM |
#0 |
-
Fuck that -- I have no desire to find "common ground" with bigots |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 12:13 PM |
#1 |
 -
Seconded. |
Dennis Donovan |
Dec-18-08 12:16 PM |
#5 |
  -
Thirded. |
bvar22 |
Dec-18-08 12:31 PM |
#29 |
 -
Fourthed. |
lwcon |
Dec-22-08 10:45 AM |
#186 |
 -
and thus, ironically, you become part of the problem. Someone has to be the grown up |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 12:27 PM |
#21 |
  -
THANK YOU |
dave29 |
Dec-18-08 12:34 PM |
#35 |
   -
Fuck that -- NO COMMON GROUND WITH BIGOTS |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 12:36 PM |
#38 |
  -
Your attitude means no further progress in society. That's okay, those of us committed to changing |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 01:02 PM |
#63 |
  -
The "problem" is we do have common ground with Warren whether you like it or not |
dmesg |
Dec-22-08 09:05 AM |
#175 |
  -
Warren's contribution to AIDS is to spread AIDS in Africa |
IndianaGreen |
Dec-22-08 10:18 AM |
#182 |
  -
That's a gross simplification of what he's done on AIDS |
dmesg |
Dec-22-08 10:22 AM |
#184 |
  -
+1!!! |
scheming daemons |
Dec-18-08 12:35 PM |
#36 |
  -
+2 |
jakem |
Dec-18-08 12:39 PM |
#40 |
   -
-2 |
Dennis Donovan |
Dec-18-08 12:50 PM |
#52 |
  -
cheater. nt |
jakem |
Dec-18-08 12:52 PM |
#53 |
  -
+4 |
snooper2 |
Dec-18-08 01:56 PM |
#107 |
  -
-infinity |
Dennis Donovan |
Dec-18-08 02:07 PM |
#114 |
  -
Why can't Warren the bigot be the grown-up? |
Starbucks Anarchist |
Dec-18-08 12:42 PM |
#45 |
   -
Because he's too busy making millions and getting off on being powerful. You & I on the other hand, |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 01:03 PM |
#67 |
    -
And we can get "there" without him. |
Starbucks Anarchist |
Dec-18-08 01:05 PM |
#70 |
     -
Denying someone's existence is an extreme form of violence. |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 01:07 PM |
#72 |
    -
Denying someone's existence... like Prop 8, which Warren vocally supported? |
Starbucks Anarchist |
Dec-18-08 01:09 PM |
#78 |
    -
Yes, I do. BTW, this is exactly why comedians like Jon Stewart are so important in changing society |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 01:16 PM |
#86 |
    -
So you think ignoring/despising Warren is on par with doing the same with gays? |
Starbucks Anarchist |
Dec-18-08 01:18 PM |
#90 |
    -
It's just as counter-productive to progressing the cause of social justice |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 01:48 PM |
#105 |
    -
You're right, we should just play nice. |
Starbucks Anarchist |
Dec-18-08 01:54 PM |
#106 |
    -
Where did I say we should just play nice? And yes, grown ups tend to act respectfully |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 02:23 PM |
#118 |
    -
People like Warren will NEVER change. |
Starbucks Anarchist |
Dec-18-08 02:24 PM |
#119 |
    -
word up! |
frylock |
Dec-18-08 02:27 PM |
#123 |
    -
Sorry, replied to the wrong post! |
Moderate Dem |
Dec-18-08 02:39 PM |
# |
    -
I think MLK would have gladly sat down with George Wallace. |
Moderate Dem |
Dec-18-08 02:41 PM |
#134 |
    -
Shirley Chisholm did |
loyalsister |
Dec-18-08 02:44 PM |
#135 |
    -
Guess what? Wallace DID change. |
Odin2005 |
Dec-21-08 10:09 PM |
#146 |
     -
After he was shot! |
IndianaGreen |
Dec-21-08 10:45 PM |
#150 |
     -
self delete |
mondo joe |
Dec-21-08 11:58 PM |
#164 |
     -
But not because his opponents ever said "Hey, he may have a point there-- |
eridani |
Dec-23-08 10:56 PM |
#190 |
    -
Having a dialogue with him does not require honoring him with the |
No Elephants |
Dec-21-08 11:59 PM |
#166 |
    -
Mana from heaven comes in the form of |
mrone2 |
Dec-18-08 01:07 PM |
#71 |
   -
Because we who are grown-up have to show him (and those like him) the way... |
stevietheman |
Dec-22-08 01:17 AM |
#168 |
  -
Please try to understand this: Bigots are to be SHUNNED, not LEGITIMIZED... |
Dennis Donovan |
Dec-18-08 12:49 PM |
#50 |
   -
What are you trying to accomplish? |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 12:57 PM |
#55 |
    -
i agree with you |
mkultra |
Dec-18-08 12:59 PM |
#58 |
    -
You don't honor them into agreeing with you either. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 01:01 PM |
#61 |
     -
But you have to respect them as a human being |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 01:08 PM |
#74 |
    -
That is the crux of the issue, they don't respect us and wish us harm. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 01:14 PM |
#82 |
    -
Do you know how to get people to respect you? |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 01:17 PM |
#87 |
    -
Sorry, you just don't get it. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 01:24 PM |
#94 |
     -
They never had respect for gay people |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 01:36 PM |
#102 |
    -
They have to call off the war first. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 01:45 PM |
#104 |
    -
You sound jus like * regarding Iran. n/t |
yowzayowzayowza |
Dec-18-08 01:56 PM |
#108 |
     -
You sound like an idiot. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 02:03 PM |
#110 |
    -
. |
yowzayowzayowza |
Dec-18-08 02:35 PM |
#128 |
    -
And that is why we are in a stalemate |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 02:04 PM |
#111 |
    -
The mistake here is thinking you will win their hearts. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 02:24 PM |
#120 |
    -
But we don't even have enough hearts to get it passed in California |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 02:30 PM |
#125 |
    -
My take on CA... |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 02:34 PM |
#127 |
    -
Your buddy Warren made sure of that |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 02:56 PM |
#138 |
    -
You have got to be kidding me |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 01:32 PM |
#98 |
    -
There's respect and then there's a national platform. |
Raineyb |
Dec-22-08 10:02 AM |
#178 |
    -
It's one thing to talk to them, it's completely another to honor them... |
Dennis Donovan |
Dec-18-08 01:10 PM |
#79 |
    -
As a former fundamentalist, all I can say is Wake the hell up. |
donco6 |
Dec-18-08 02:38 PM |
#130 |
     -
You're the only fundamentalist capable of changing? |
WonderGrunion |
Dec-22-08 10:18 AM |
#181 |
    -
DU talking about Warren sounds like Bush talking about Ahmadinajad NT |
dmesg |
Dec-22-08 09:07 AM |
#176 |
   -
so you think shunning bigotry will actually make things better? Good thing MLK didn't agree |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 01:18 PM |
#89 |
    -
He most certainly DID shun bigotry. Do you THINK he tried to find common ground? |
Dennis Donovan |
Dec-18-08 01:21 PM |
#93 |
   -
Like Senator Byrd? |
WonderGrunion |
Dec-22-08 10:19 AM |
#183 |
  -
Being a wimp isn't being a grown up, don't flatter yourself with that. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 12:59 PM |
#59 |
  -
I do support some of the discussion his choice has sparked on DU... |
AntiFascist |
Dec-21-08 08:41 PM |
#141 |
  -
Yes, but inviting someone to give an invocation is not doing the hard work |
No Elephants |
Dec-21-08 11:53 PM |
#161 |
  -
Here! Here! nt |
verges |
Dec-21-08 11:58 PM |
#165 |
  -
Warren already guaranteed no common ground can be found. |
IWantAnyDem |
Dec-22-08 05:46 AM |
#171 |
 -
Agreed. |
Neecy |
Dec-18-08 12:39 PM |
#41 |
 -
then im sure you wont. |
mkultra |
Dec-18-08 12:46 PM |
#49 |
 -
Wish I coudl rec a response. n/t |
IWantAnyDem |
Dec-18-08 01:16 PM |
#84 |
  -
Thanks |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 01:32 PM |
#99 |
 -
its hard to find common ground when one side isn't even viewed |
roguevalley |
Dec-18-08 02:22 PM |
#117 |
 -
I'm gay, and I do have the desire to find common ground with them. |
stevietheman |
Dec-22-08 01:16 AM |
#167 |
 -
Nor do I! |
Mad_Dem_X |
Dec-22-08 09:02 AM |
#174 |
 -
Do you believe that Sen. Byrd |
WonderGrunion |
Dec-22-08 10:15 AM |
#180 |
-
The irony in your final sentence boggles the mind. |
leftofthedial |
Dec-18-08 12:13 PM |
#2 |
 -
LOL |
Zenlitened |
Dec-18-08 12:27 PM |
#22 |
-
sure, throwing women and gays under the bus |
musette_sf |
Dec-18-08 12:13 PM |
#3 |
 -
But hey, The Inaugeral Committe says Warren is an advocate for "social justice", except of course |
saracat |
Dec-18-08 12:19 PM |
#9 |
 -
Warren is a disappointing choice, but I don't feel in any way thrown under the bus |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Dec-18-08 12:26 PM |
#19 |
-
glad to hear you like triangulation |
musette_sf |
Dec-18-08 12:27 PM |
#20 |
-
Things aren't always black and white. There's a vast |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Dec-18-08 12:28 PM |
#23 |
 -
i was willing to live with that grey area |
musette_sf |
Dec-18-08 12:30 PM |
#25 |
 -
Which of your basic human rights shall we consign to that gray area? |
QC |
Dec-18-08 12:43 PM |
#46 |
-
Again, as a woman, I don't feel my human rights have been taken away |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Dec-18-08 12:50 PM |
#51 |
-
No, your rights haven't been taken away. |
QC |
Dec-18-08 01:05 PM |
#69 |
-
good line... |
gblady |
Dec-22-08 10:31 AM |
#185 |
-
No he hasn't failed. Give him a chance. |
Roberto1223 |
Dec-18-08 01:09 PM |
#77 |
-
was it Warrens comparison of homosexuals to rapists and child molesters that won you over? |
chimpsrsmarter |
Dec-18-08 12:16 PM |
#4 |
 -
It is his commitment to fighting poverty and AIDS in Africa |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 12:17 PM |
#6 |
  -
oh okay, thanks for clearing that up, i can see how that makes up for his statements. |
chimpsrsmarter |
Dec-18-08 12:18 PM |
#8 |
  -
Yeah, because no Liberal Christian clergy fight poverty or do AIDS Outreach |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 12:20 PM |
#11 |
   -
The point is that he is one of the few, if the only, big pastor on the right who has shown movement |
GarbagemanLB |
Dec-18-08 12:24 PM |
#16 |
  -
And that is so much more important than the civil rights of American citizens! |
saracat |
Dec-18-08 12:23 PM |
#14 |
   -
Global poverty is pretty damn important too |
gravity |
Dec-18-08 12:30 PM |
#26 |
  -
Does that work better for you than going to the Chiropractor??? |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 12:31 PM |
#28 |
   -
you're missing the point, his "work" on fighting poverty and aids allows him to make |
chimpsrsmarter |
Dec-18-08 01:10 PM |
#80 |
    -
DOH! You are right!!! |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 02:05 PM |
#112 |
   -
I'm just here to help. |
chimpsrsmarter |
Dec-18-08 02:20 PM |
#115 |
   -
I appreciate straight people telling me how to think -- it makes things easier |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 02:21 PM |
#116 |
   -
indeed it is, it's way past bonkers. |
chimpsrsmarter |
Dec-18-08 02:32 PM |
#126 |
   -
Rationalizations as twisted as a pretzel |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 02:38 PM |
#131 |
   -
:) |
Bluebear |
Dec-23-08 10:07 PM |
#188 |
  -
THe ignorance displayed is monumental. Ever hear of Kitchen table issues? |
saracat |
Dec-18-08 12:38 PM |
#39 |
  -
That's great, since he opposes conom distribution to fight AIDS. |
mondo joe |
Dec-21-08 11:53 PM |
#162 |
 -
You dodged chimpsrsmarter's question: was it Warren's comparison of homosexuals to rapists & child m |
David Zephyr |
Dec-21-08 10:19 PM |
#148 |
-
How special for you. |
pecwae |
Dec-18-08 12:17 PM |
#7 |
-
Hey Lincoln! Get some pro slavery people up there. |
Neshanic |
Dec-18-08 12:19 PM |
#10 |
 -
Andrew Johnson |
quakerboy |
Dec-18-08 12:58 PM |
#57 |
-
No fucking common ground with bigots and hatemongers. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 12:21 PM |
#12 |
-
I think we need at least 20 more threads |
Mudoria |
Dec-18-08 12:23 PM |
#13 |
-
Yay! Common ground with hatemongers! |
Bluebear |
Dec-18-08 12:24 PM |
#15 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-18-08 12:25 PM |
#17 |
 -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Dec-18-08 12:25 PM |
#18 |
-
If the far side of both sides hate it, you know it's probably good |
alwysdrunk |
Dec-18-08 12:28 PM |
#24 |
 -
Why yes, I DO want to obliterate bigotry and discrimination |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 12:30 PM |
#27 |
  -
You don't extinguish the Darkness, you turn on a Light |
cryingshame |
Dec-18-08 02:26 PM |
#122 |
 -
Are you insane--- the FAR side, we are talking about bigotry and hate. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 12:32 PM |
#31 |
  -
I have the same position that you have |
alwysdrunk |
Dec-18-08 12:36 PM |
#37 |
 -
This isn't a litmus test of a theoretical issue. This is every bit a safety issue. |
dbonds |
Dec-18-08 12:42 PM |
#44 |
 -
So the gays and lesbians = the "far" side to you. |
Bluebear |
Dec-18-08 12:39 PM |
#42 |
  -
No, just the ones blowing this out of proportion |
alwysdrunk |
Dec-18-08 12:45 PM |
#47 |
 -
And what is "blowing it out of proportion" -- serious question |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 01:08 PM |
#73 |
 -
I see you haven't answered my question yet |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 01:33 PM |
#100 |
 -
Ha! have you read DU today |
alwysdrunk |
Dec-18-08 01:38 PM |
#103 |
 -
It's exactly like inviting a Klansman,a nd he is legitimizing the bigot's POV |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 02:06 PM |
#113 |
 -
So now you have to be to the far left to oppose the likes of Warren? |
Raineyb |
Dec-22-08 10:14 AM |
#179 |
-
You don't understand the difference between |
nichomachus |
Dec-18-08 12:32 PM |
#30 |
-
you are disgusting |
Skittles |
Dec-18-08 12:32 PM |
#32 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-18-08 12:32 PM |
#33 |
 -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-18-08 12:40 PM |
#43 |
 -
Wasn't that a Green Day song? |
Dennis Donovan |
Dec-18-08 12:56 PM |
#54 |
-
If you haven't noticed this choice is not bringing people together, it is tearing us apart. |
MN Against Bush |
Dec-18-08 12:34 PM |
#34 |
 -
It is angering to those who want to fight. |
mkultra |
Dec-18-08 12:58 PM |
#56 |
  -
It is impossible to be inclusive of both bigots and the victims of bigotry |
MN Against Bush |
Dec-18-08 01:01 PM |
#62 |
 -
lol. How very assumptive of you. |
mkultra |
Dec-18-08 01:02 PM |
#64 |
 -
What I said is the truth whether you like it or not. |
MN Against Bush |
Dec-18-08 01:14 PM |
#81 |
 -
actually, neither your assumption nor your foolish approach are true |
mkultra |
Dec-18-08 01:27 PM |
#96 |
 -
Cut from the same cloth? Please. |
MN Against Bush |
Dec-18-08 02:01 PM |
#109 |
 -
Please link to an LGBT site that advocates stripping civil rights from straights n/t |
eridani |
Dec-24-08 12:00 AM |
#191 |
 -
Not people who think it's not that big a deal |
alwysdrunk |
Dec-18-08 01:02 PM |
#65 |
-
So what about Warren's views aren't a big deal? |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 01:08 PM |
#76 |
 -
The ones he will be giving at the event |
alwysdrunk |
Dec-18-08 01:18 PM |
#88 |
-
Legitimizing his views by placing him at the forefront and letting him invoke God? |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 01:34 PM |
#101 |
-
Many do think it is a big deal though, this decision is not unifying for those who condemn bigotry |
MN Against Bush |
Dec-18-08 01:16 PM |
#85 |
-
I totally agree with you |
RoadRage |
Dec-18-08 12:46 PM |
#48 |
-
So how'd that meeting go with the Grand Wizard of the KKK, David Duke, and |
Malikshah |
Dec-18-08 01:00 PM |
#60 |
-
throwing a bone to the fundies. |
pansypoo53219 |
Dec-18-08 01:02 PM |
#66 |
-
Fuck that- |
Marrah_G |
Dec-18-08 01:04 PM |
#68 |
-
Why didn't Rick Warren campaign with Obama? |
leftstreet |
Dec-18-08 01:08 PM |
#75 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-18-08 01:15 PM |
#83 |
-
This is the Fox News "fair and balanced" argument that tries to |
sfexpat2000 |
Dec-18-08 01:19 PM |
#91 |
 -
Nicely done! |
leftstreet |
Dec-18-08 01:20 PM |
#92 |
 -
Yep. The "both sides" argument is almost always bull |
sampsonblk |
Dec-21-08 10:58 PM |
#153 |
-
Yes, the choice of Warren certainly has united Obama's supporters. |
yardwork |
Dec-18-08 01:26 PM |
#95 |
-
The trouble is, Warren isn't part of the political spectrum, he's a bigot and homophobe |
MadHound |
Dec-18-08 01:28 PM |
#97 |
-
So....David Duke will also speak? Common ground and all... |
Evergreen Emerald |
Dec-18-08 02:25 PM |
#121 |
 -
Yeah, why the Hell not? |
Sebastian Doyle |
Dec-21-08 08:47 PM |
#143 |
-
Yeah, I'm farting rainbows of joy right now. n/t |
donco6 |
Dec-18-08 02:28 PM |
#124 |
-
Face it, this forum has a lot of "far leftists"... |
Moderate Dem |
Dec-18-08 02:38 PM |
#129 |
 -
hahahahaha --DU HAS ALOT OF "FAR LEFTISTS"??????? |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 02:39 PM |
#132 |
-
You disagree? |
Moderate Dem |
Dec-18-08 02:44 PM |
#136 |
-
Three things |
LostinVA |
Dec-18-08 02:55 PM |
#137 |
-
"Mocking attitude" |
IAmJacksSmirkingRevenge |
Dec-18-08 02:58 PM |
#139 |
-
I agree with you |
DeschutesRiver |
Dec-18-08 02:41 PM |
#133 |
-
It's very Matt Santos... |
mwei924 |
Dec-18-08 06:02 PM |
#140 |
 -
And the only two places on earth where you'll find "reasonable" Republicans anymore |
Sebastian Doyle |
Dec-21-08 08:45 PM |
#142 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Dec-21-08 08:47 PM |
#144 |
-
Sure, Rick Warren is a fine example of how Obama will bring this nation together |
IndianaGreen |
Dec-21-08 08:55 PM |
#145 |
-
When I saw that both extreme ends were bitching I knew Obama must be doing something right. |
Odin2005 |
Dec-21-08 10:15 PM |
#147 |
 -
i agree with ya on that n/t |
Bodhi BloodWave |
Dec-21-08 10:44 PM |
#149 |
 -
I suppose Nelson Mandela was totalitarian for insisting on the end of apartheid |
IndianaGreen |
Dec-21-08 10:49 PM |
#151 |
  -
No, but he didn't have to problem talking with racists. |
Odin2005 |
Dec-21-08 10:55 PM |
#152 |
 -
Dr. King's words don't apply to gays, eh? You should be ashamed of yourself. |
Bluebear |
Dec-21-08 11:24 PM |
#156 |
 -
Coretta Scott King said those words directly applied to gays. Are you a greater authority |
mondo joe |
Dec-21-08 11:55 PM |
#163 |
 -
Do you run away from every threat? |
yowzayowzayowza |
Dec-22-08 03:19 AM |
#169 |
 -
When did I run away? |
mondo joe |
Dec-22-08 09:22 AM |
#177 |
 -
"Extreme ends" = gays and lesbians, yes? |
Bluebear |
Dec-21-08 11:23 PM |
#155 |
 -
"gays = child molesters" vs "no we're not" is now two extreme ends. |
mondo joe |
Dec-21-08 11:51 PM |
#160 |
-
I don't have "common ground" with Nazis nor do I associate with trash that does.... |
Rowdyboy |
Dec-21-08 11:18 PM |
#154 |
-
Yes, after all we need to learn how to reach out to bigots and homophobes, |
MadHound |
Dec-21-08 11:39 PM |
#157 |
-
Both sides of the political spectrum? First, the "political spectrum" |
No Elephants |
Dec-21-08 11:44 PM |
#158 |
-
I look forward to your future appalling disappointment. |
mondo joe |
Dec-21-08 11:50 PM |
#159 |
 -
Don't hold your breath. |
The Godfather |
Dec-22-08 07:16 AM |
#172 |
-
I've been thinking this also. |
Skidmore |
Dec-22-08 05:38 AM |
#170 |
-
I'm waiting to see how much Warren |
bigwillq |
Dec-22-08 07:37 AM |
#173 |
-
the great thing about the internet is no one is ashamed of publicly displaying stupidity |
lionesspriyanka |
Dec-22-08 10:54 AM |
#187 |
-
Yes, for 8 years the complaint was Bush divided a nation staying on either side of that divide is > |
cooolandrew |
Dec-23-08 10:12 PM |
#189 |