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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #92
98. understood
And I disagree with your point.

To say that 2/3 of the posts are against Obama requires categorizing anything other than complete trust and affection as therefore being against Obama.

To say that no one is trying to suppress dissent is to ignore the ad hominem attacks on dissenters, and the ridicule and trivializing of their remarks by falsely portraying the remarks as destructive or illegitimate in some way. That is the exact way that dissent is suppressed, as we should all know from having watched the right wingers raise it to an art form over the last couple of decades. "They are tearing down Obama!" is not much different from "they are tearing down America!"
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  -Why are some people here STILL trying to silence progressive dissent? Ken Burch  Nov-19-08 12:38 PM   #0 
  - I didn't realize the last dem administration was a failure.  OhioBlues   Nov-19-08 12:40 PM   #1 
  - It certainly was to the middle class and working americans in many ways  OwnedByFerrets   Nov-19-08 12:52 PM   #21 
  - maybe you can find yourself in here somewhere...  paulk   Nov-19-08 01:33 PM   #64 
  - Thank you for the link.....  OwnedByFerrets   Nov-19-08 05:03 PM   #115 
  - Just look at the economy under Clinton  olegramps   Nov-20-08 05:57 AM   #138 
  - In many, many ways it was.  girl gone mad   Nov-19-08 03:18 PM   #108 
  - Clinton was one of the most accomplished presidents in history.  niceypoo   Nov-19-08 03:23 PM   #109 
     - OMG, I really cant believe you said that he reversed Reaganomics  OwnedByFerrets   Nov-19-08 05:05 PM   #116 
     - Compare the gap between rich and poor...  Virginia Dare   Nov-20-08 02:29 PM   #153 
        - Of course he did NOT. The fact that it happened  OwnedByFerrets   Nov-20-08 02:48 PM   #158 
     - If Clinton had reversed Reaganomics we wouldn't be in the hole we're in now  Raineyb   Nov-19-08 08:37 PM   #122 
        - We're in this hole because Bush practiced Reaganomics with no controls or oversight..  Virginia Dare   Nov-20-08 02:25 PM   #152 
  - in this way it failed  Two Americas   Nov-19-08 06:29 PM   #120 
  - Clinton was the best Republican President we've ever had. And the most successful.  baldguy   Nov-19-08 09:00 PM   #124 
  - No one's silencing us. If they were, posts would be locked and people would be tombstoned.  Bicoastal   Nov-19-08 12:41 PM   # 
  - *facepalm*  Alter Ego   Nov-19-08 12:41 PM   #2 
  - I've been mouthing off right along.  Deep13   Nov-19-08 12:41 PM   #3 
  - Everyone has the right to display ignorance or stupidity  dmordue   Nov-19-08 12:41 PM   #4 
  - That's right: is the enemy  BeFree   Nov-19-08 12:41 PM   #5 
  - It's all those posters who've basically said that because Kucinich didn't make much of a showing  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 12:45 PM   #9 
  - Yeah different  BeFree   Nov-19-08 12:53 PM   #23 
  - That's not my intent. I'm just in here standing up for my principles.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 12:56 PM   #26 
  - Yes, indeed  BeFree   Nov-19-08 01:04 PM   #44 
     - each other  Two Americas   Nov-20-08 01:17 AM   #127 
  - People on the left seem to forget  maseman   Nov-20-08 06:40 AM   #140 
     - define "hard left"  Two Americas   Nov-20-08 02:48 PM   #159 
  - The litmus test for a true progressive is to be a Kucinich supporter?  Virginia Dare   Nov-20-08 02:31 PM   #154 
  - And dissenting just for the sake of dissenting is idiotic  stevenleser   Nov-19-08 01:43 PM   #67 
  - Not "progressive" just "rational" to question HRC SoS rumors -- Quals and Fit is NOT best  Sensitivity   Nov-19-08 12:42 PM   #6 
  - 8 years of peace and prosperity is a failure?  deadmessengers   Nov-19-08 12:44 PM   #7 
  - NOT bashing the poor. Getting a real healthcare system in place.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 12:47 PM   #15 
  - Thank you  Generator   Nov-19-08 01:59 PM   #77 
     - Indeed. Speaking out now is crucial in order to defend the party from its opponents.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 02:11 PM   #83 
  - We're paying for that "prosperity" now.  girl gone mad   Nov-19-08 03:26 PM   #110 
  - Food bank use was up dramatically in the 90s  eridani   Nov-19-08 08:29 PM   #121 
  - Many cross-currents and rip-tides caused by all of Obama's Crossovers.  patrice   Nov-19-08 12:44 PM   #8 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-19-08 12:45 PM   #10 
  - We are Democratic Underground.....  FrenchieCat   Nov-19-08 12:46 PM   #11 
  - Thanks for the link.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 12:49 PM   #17 
  - yeah no moderates ever canvass or phone bank  dmallind   Nov-19-08 12:46 PM   #12 
  - I know lots of anti-war and anti-Bush moderates who volunteer for DEMS.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 12:49 PM   #16 
     - wtf is a pro-Bush Dem? lol.  Jim4Wes   Nov-19-08 12:53 PM   #22 
     - So no DEMS supported Bush's far right war or his far right economic policies?  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 12:56 PM   #28 
     - Well here's your problem  dmallind   Nov-19-08 12:56 PM   #27 
        - I dont have a problem. DEMS who were stupid enough to support Bush have a problem.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 12:59 PM   #31 
  - Martin Luther King Jr. said it best when he said the day we become  midnight   Nov-19-08 12:47 PM   #13 
  - That's a great way of putting it.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 12:59 PM   #32 
  - DLCers were 100% wrong in their support for Bush, and now they want to make up for it?  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 12:47 PM   #14 
  - In my own way, I'm being pro-Obama.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 12:51 PM   #19 
  - Yes- let's be pro-Obama and give him a chance to succeed!  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 01:01 PM   #36 
  - By publicly shitting on every appointment our two-week-old PE is considering....  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 01:01 PM   #37 
     - For the record, the only problem I have is Lieberman.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 01:03 PM   #41 
        - For the record, I wasn't replying to you..... look again  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 01:12 PM   #50 
           - I thought this was an open discussion board, and you were posting in my sub-thread.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 01:14 PM   #53 
           - You seemed like you were responding directly to my post, as if I directed it at you...  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 01:21 PM   #58 
              - No, I was just trying to express my views to anyone reading. A "discussion board" as it were.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 01:25 PM   #60 
           - I'm not against every appointment. I like the AG appointment.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:14 PM   #54 
  - Obama says he wants to hear dissenting voices. Well where are the progressive voices in his  Skwmom   Nov-19-08 01:01 PM   #38 
     - He's named less than 5% of his administration. Sheesh.  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 01:04 PM   #43 
        - Exactly. Who are some good Liberals that you would like to see in an Obama admin?  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 01:12 PM   #51 
        - I'd love to hear your answer to post #51.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 01:38 PM   #65 
           - Reich as Commerce Secretary(we can't have another corporate type in there)  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:53 PM   #74 
              - It would interest me to see if scheming daemons would agree with you on those pics.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 02:02 PM   #79 
  - Oh the drama... the DRAMA!  bunnies   Nov-19-08 12:50 PM   #18 
  - ,,,  prodn2000   Nov-19-08 02:47 PM   #103 
  - If "progressive dissent" is being silenced, why am I reading your OP?  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 12:52 PM   #20 
  - Why are you trying to silence those of us who are telling you to shut the fuck up?  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 12:53 PM   #24 
  - you know how i deal with it?  maxsolomon   Nov-19-08 12:54 PM   #25 
  - Let them try. The only one who will silence you is you.  Forkboy   Nov-19-08 12:57 PM   #29 
  - That's why I AM speaking out.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:01 PM   #39 
     - And we need the centrists.  Forkboy   Nov-19-08 01:12 PM   #49 
        - sure we do  Two Americas   Nov-19-08 06:19 PM   #118 
  - With the progressives track record on being right on so many issues, it makes you wonder why they  Skwmom   Nov-19-08 12:59 PM   #30 
  - If you're dissenting against an administration that doesn't take office for two months yet, then....  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 01:00 PM   #33 
     - If you don't speak out AT THE START, the opening for action slips away.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:04 PM   #42 
     - The last administration made the MISTAKE of being too progressive during the first two years  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 01:06 PM   #46 
     - Bogus analysis of those first two years.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:12 PM   #52 
        - yours is the "progressive" analysis?  paulk   Nov-19-08 01:45 PM   #70 
           - It's not "THE" analysis, It's just mine.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:50 PM   #72 
           - I noticed you offer no actual rebuttal to it, simply an insult.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:54 PM   #75 
     - What exactly would you like the administration to do?  olegramps   Nov-20-08 06:30 AM   #139 
        - Here's what I'd like  Ken Burch   Nov-20-08 11:14 AM   #148 
     - Oh yeah, let's wait until he makes all of his appointments to start voicing our concerns.  Skwmom   Nov-19-08 01:27 PM   #61 
     - nonsense  Two Americas   Nov-20-08 01:25 AM   #128 
  - I think the new administration should be given a chance before anyone complains.  phleshdef   Nov-19-08 01:00 PM   #34 
  - No one is silencing anyone. But can the man get a chance to fucking govern  BrentTaylor   Nov-19-08 01:00 PM   #35 
  - Nope.  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 01:03 PM   #40 
     - It's not about being "pissed off". It's about standing up for ourselves.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:06 PM   #45 
        - You have it exactly backwards  scheming daemons   Nov-19-08 01:08 PM   #47 
        - you're not supposed to point things like that out. That's an attempt to silence someone  wyldwolf   Nov-19-08 03:33 PM   #111 
        - Just how were you burned again?  olegramps   Nov-20-08 06:46 AM   #141 
  - So criticism of your impatience is now "stifling dissent"? What a pantload of crap!  Bonobo   Nov-19-08 01:08 PM   #48 
  - You are estimating the quantitfy of crap by a couple of exponents...  stevenleser   Nov-19-08 01:39 PM   #66 
  - "The last Democratic administration was a failure"  TwilightZone   Nov-19-08 01:16 PM   #55 
  - The one where the poor were abandoned and insulted by a "Democratic" president  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:19 PM   #57 
  - President-elect Obama hasn't even taken his oath of office and the  grantcart   Nov-19-08 01:19 PM   #56 
  - But, grantcart, what is taken as "dissent" around here lately is pretty ridiculous.  Kristi1696   Nov-19-08 01:27 PM   #62 
  - Once again you are on the side of common sense and facts  stevenleser   Nov-19-08 02:25 PM   #95 
  - Go Back To Thailand Grant  Binka   Nov-20-08 03:39 AM   #134 
  - Thank you.  Kristi1696   Nov-19-08 01:22 PM   #59 
  - OMG! An AG against the death penalty and an HHS Secretary for national health care!  Alexander   Nov-19-08 01:29 PM   #63 
  - I SAID upthread that I like the AG appointment, and also I like Daschle.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:44 PM   #68 
     - So what, exactly, is your problem?  Alexander   Nov-19-08 04:00 PM   #114 
  - it is an ongoing battle  Two Americas   Nov-19-08 01:44 PM   #69 
  - Excellent post. I'd have no problem with the centrists just disagreeing with me.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 01:47 PM   #71 
  - the conflict  Two Americas   Nov-19-08 02:00 PM   #78 
  - Bravo. Very well put.  political_Dem   Nov-20-08 03:33 AM   #133 
  - You make an excellent point here  jonestonesusa   Nov-20-08 10:25 AM   #145 
  - The OP in this thread was a failure  alwysdrunk   Nov-19-08 01:51 PM   #73 
  - this post is itself suppressive  Two Americas   Nov-19-08 02:07 PM   #82 
     - It's about treating the progressive faction in the party with respect as an equal force.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 02:13 PM   #84 
  - I don't see anything being silenced--2/3 of the posts are critical of Obama, so...  WI_DEM   Nov-19-08 01:58 PM   #76 
  - not so  Two Americas   Nov-19-08 02:15 PM   # 
     - my point is nobody is trying to stop dissent and the 2/3 of the posts are  WI_DEM   Nov-19-08 02:23 PM   #92 
     - understood  Two Americas   Nov-19-08 02:33 PM   #98 
     - Exactly: "our civic all times." (n/t)  kenzee13   Nov-19-08 03:41 PM   #112 
  - This is another "I want my say and no one should argue with me" post  wyldwolf   Nov-19-08 02:02 PM   #80 
  - I'm fine with people arguing with me.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 02:06 PM   #81 
  - It would be cool if we could ALL agree to cease name calling & bullying of any kind.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 02:15 PM   #85 
  - You're right. Both sides have launched their share of invective.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 02:16 PM   #87 
  - For the record, I've been defending Obama's centrist picks all over this board for days.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 02:22 PM   #90 
     - I appreciate your comments and your respectful, open tone.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 02:32 PM   #97 
  - Pro-war, pro-Bush, pro-Lieberman Dems?  olegramps   Nov-20-08 07:08 AM   #143 
  - if you don't believe you're being treated as an equal, that is your issue and no one else's  wyldwolf   Nov-19-08 02:15 PM   #86 
  - you wish  iamthebandfanman   Nov-19-08 02:22 PM   #91 
     - Next thing you know, DUers will be accused of being disloyal for not supporting Lieberman!  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 02:24 PM   #94 
     - umm.. there's only one group here who accuse others of not being a Democrat  wyldwolf   Nov-19-08 03:04 PM   #106 
        - There were/are at least 2- maybe 3.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 03:12 PM   #107 
  - we are always silenced.  iamthebandfanman   Nov-19-08 02:20 PM   #88 
  - "The LAST Democratic administration was a failure" reminds me of this classic article:  Freddie Stubbs   Nov-19-08 02:21 PM   #89 
  - Wow, starting to see the problems the Repigs have with their fundamental right wingers.  Pisces   Nov-19-08 02:24 PM   #93 
  - For the record, I can accept HRC at State IF Obama makes it clear  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 02:35 PM   #99 
  - I just want the 'centerists' to begin each sentance with the truth  Bluenorthwest   Nov-19-08 02:27 PM   #96 
  - To be fair, the DLC types used to openly admit that during Bush's 1st term and shortly thereafter.  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 02:38 PM   #100 
     - The only thing that was good about some DU'ers backing HolyWarJoe  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 02:42 PM   #101 
        - Let me guess- Mr Benchley?  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 02:45 PM   #102 
        - I didn't want to get my post deleted by mentioning him by name, but yes.  Ken Burch   Nov-19-08 02:49 PM   #104 
           - Crap- I didn't know that I might be breaking a rule!  Dr Fate   Nov-19-08 02:52 PM   #105 
        - Mr. Benchley was a truely nasty character.  Odin2005   Nov-20-08 08:54 AM   #144 
  - No one is questioning your right to speak -- some are just questioning some of what you have to say.  zlt234   Nov-19-08 03:51 PM   #113 
  - It appears our services are no longer required.  Dragonfli   Nov-19-08 05:30 PM   #117 
  - Because we're nazis.  BlooInBloo   Nov-19-08 06:20 PM   #119 
  - arent you silencing the dissenting dissent?  mkultra   Nov-19-08 08:40 PM   #123 
  - Silencing the progressives  Enna   Nov-19-08 09:37 PM   #125 
  - Well put.  Ken Burch   Nov-20-08 02:23 PM   #151 
  - I was one who did the hard work...  stillcool47   Nov-19-08 09:45 PM   #126 
  - Of course I want the guy inagurated.  Ken Burch   Nov-20-08 02:19 PM   #150 
  - emotions, micro-focusing on minutiae  KakistocracyHater   Nov-20-08 01:31 AM   #129 
  - Nah, not for the most part. Some off us a step over  TheKentuckian   Nov-20-08 02:35 AM   #130 
  -!!  Life Long Dem   Nov-20-08 02:43 AM   #131 
  - I mean the cutting edge of the very, very, very leftest of all maaann way out there  TheKentuckian   Nov-20-08 03:02 AM   #132 
  - Yup, eight years of peace and prosperity sure was  cboy4   Nov-20-08 03:56 AM   #135 
  - Amazing example of a carefully planned under the radar post  mtnester   Nov-20-08 04:11 AM   #136 
  - Apparently no one ever saw "The Big One".  HughBeaumont   Nov-20-08 04:51 AM   #137 
  - The Big One is an essential film, a great piece of history from the 90s.  jonestonesusa   Nov-20-08 10:45 AM   #146 
  - Expanding the Earned Income Credit was one of the most  WCGreen   Nov-20-08 06:58 AM   #142 
  - Progressive Dissent Does Not Equal Insane Or Irrational Rantings And Vitriol With Short Sighted  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Nov-20-08 10:47 AM   #147 
  - I'm against insane or irrational rantings, too.  Ken Burch   Nov-20-08 02:16 PM   #149 
  - NO ONE IS STIFLING YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH GOD DAMN IT  WildEyedLiberal   Nov-20-08 02:31 PM   #155 
  - I mostly agree. But although I think the Clinton admin. was far from being a 'failure', they could  codjh9   Nov-20-08 02:32 PM   #156 
  - Leftover hostility from the primaries and the fact that we're not all progressive here.  PelosiFan   Nov-20-08 02:32 PM   #157 

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