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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-02-08 08:59 AM
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A thought about context and the constructiveness of criticism.
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Edited on Wed Jul-02-08 09:27 AM by Skinner
Since the FISA and faith-based stories have been in the news, there has been a lot of discussion about whether (and how) members should be permitted to criticize Barack Obama, our presumptive presidential nominee. I'm not going to get into the gritty details of enforcement, or what is-or-isn't permitted, because that is not the purpose of this post. The purpose of this post is merely to make an observation about criticism, and the context in which it is offered.

If someone offers criticism of Barack Obama, I find that the criticism is easier to accept if the speaker has already sufficiently demonstrated their support for Senator Obama's candidacy.

Put another way: If you want to be taken seriously, it helps to prove your bona-fides.

To be clear: I'm not speaking as a DU Administrator here. My purpose is merely to offer some helpful insight to those of you who don't seem to understand why you are not showered with rose petals when you offer your special brand of constructive criticism here on DU. Allow me to explain.

If you have spent the last six-to-twelve months trashing Senator Obama here on DU, and since the primaries ended you have not given any credible indication that you are now a supporter of his campaign, then if you post a thread about how you are incredibly disappointed in him because {insert reason here}, people are likely to wonder about your motivations and conclude that you are still trying to derail his campaign.

I'm not saying they're right. I'm not saying it's fair. What I am saying is that it is virtually inevitable.

So, if you want to be taken seriously -- if you want your constructive criticism to be accepted as constructive -- I humbly suggest that you put some effort into demonstrating that you actually want our guy to win this thing.
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  -A thought about context and the constructiveness of criticism. Skinner  Jul-02-08 08:59 AM   #0 
  - Rec for stating the obvious. and thanks too.  endarkenment   Jul-02-08 09:01 AM   #1 
  - thank you  blogslut   Jul-02-08 09:03 AM   #2 
  - K&R  JTFrog   Jul-02-08 09:03 AM   #3 
  - Ahhh, I love the smell of Reason in the morning. K&R nt  NYC_SKP   Jul-02-08 09:04 AM   #4 
     - personally, it has me confused.  cryingshame   Jul-02-08 09:06 AM   #5 
        - OK, here's an example:  NYC_SKP   Jul-02-08 09:14 AM   #17 
           - Kudos! I think the best word to describe what is found on DU all too often is "reactionary".  cryingshame   Jul-02-08 09:18 AM   #20 
              - You. too. Happy 4th of July!  NYC_SKP   Jul-02-08 09:23 AM   #25 
  - It doesn't matter if we say we now support Obama....  yadayadayada   Jul-02-08 09:06 AM   #6 
  - That does seem to tell us  Jakes Progress   Jul-02-08 09:59 AM   #46 
  - The ones who will leave won't be us.  aquart   Jul-04-08 04:16 AM   #363 
  - I don't think that is the case for the vast majority of DUers.  Skinner   Jul-02-08 10:08 AM   #54 
  - i disagree  unapatriciated   Jul-02-08 01:21 PM   #154 
  - Well, when someone spends most of their posts criticizing him, then yeah...  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 12:36 PM   #141 
  - I think most of us (Obama supporters in the primaries) feel "innocent until proven guilty"  AZBlue   Jul-02-08 09:06 PM   #287 
  - ....it's called the "you are what we say you are" exercise in authoritarianism . ..  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:15 PM   #294 
  - Amen!  pirhana   Jul-02-08 11:50 PM   #302 
  - 'They' is vague ....  Trajan   Jul-04-08 02:09 AM   #358 
  - That's it in a nutshell.  Window   Jul-02-08 09:07 AM   #7 
  - So, criticism of issues is allowed?  terrya   Jul-02-08 09:07 AM   #8 
  - See GDP  endarkenment   Jul-02-08 09:25 AM   #29 
  - Sure criticism is allowed, but when it's very easy for a DUer to bump into threads like this...  JVS   Jul-02-08 09:44 AM   #37 
  - I understand that.  terrya   Jul-02-08 09:50 AM   #42 
  - Actually, Sir, It Is Not That Easy  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 10:14 AM   #61 
  - not if one likes reading threads by number of replies  JVS   Jul-02-08 10:15 AM   #64 
  - Viewed By Time-Stamp, Sir, As Most Do, It Is On Page Eighteen Of That Group  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 10:24 AM   #78 
     - It is still an active thread albeit in a slow moving forum. Like I said, number of replies is a...  JVS   Jul-02-08 10:30 AM   #81 
        - Nothing With a Last Post In February, Sir, Is Properly Considered Current In July  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 10:39 AM   #86 
           - That is correct. Things said currently indicate people's present states of mind.  JVS   Jul-02-08 10:46 AM   #92 
              - "people have thought of the primary as a battle or war"  QC   Jul-02-08 10:56 AM   #94 
              - Some Members On All Sides Thought Of It As Battle, Sir  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 11:01 AM   #96 
                 - Interesting theory about the heat, but I'm not sure I can believe it.  JVS   Jul-02-08 11:05 AM   #98 
                    - The Heat Would Have Had A Different Quality, Sir  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 11:28 AM   #120 
                       - There was smear and ad hominem when debating different medical plans.  JVS   Jul-02-08 11:35 AM   #124 
                       - Some People Will Always Do That, Sir: They Know No Other Way, And Often Enjoy It  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 11:55 AM   #132 
                          - God Mag, you are awesome. Well done sequence of responses.  MichiganVote   Jul-02-08 09:07 PM   #288 
                          - Seriously Magistrate. You are possibly my favorite poster here.  musicblind   Jul-03-08 12:58 AM   #317 
                       - In other words,  cornermouse   Jul-02-08 01:54 PM   #161 
  - HUGS to you, Sir. A Very Astute Observation.  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 10:21 AM   #72 
  - Actually that kind of stuff  redqueen   Jul-02-08 10:49 AM   #93 
  - PUMAs get away with everything  thecatburgler   Jul-02-08 11:14 AM   #108 
  - Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!  Lirwin2   Jul-02-08 09:27 PM   #291 
     - Here, go have a good cry over this:  apocalypsehow   Jul-02-08 11:23 PM   #295 
  - I feel like I have  zidzi   Jul-02-08 02:09 PM   #169 
     - What's the point though?  redqueen   Jul-02-08 02:41 PM   #185 
        - I know..I may be swimming  zidzi   Jul-02-08 02:52 PM   #189 
  - Its hardly fair to call out a DU member for something said in Feb. that post should  rodeodance   Jul-02-08 11:06 AM   #102 
  - Boo hoo. What about stuff you're saying now on another forum?  thecatburgler   Jul-02-08 11:17 AM   #111 
  - We don't get to decide which ads are placed on the board....  BlackVelvet04   Jul-02-08 02:01 PM   #164 
  - Do you get to decide what you post BlackVelvet?  bunnies   Jul-02-08 02:06 PM   #168 
  - LOL. Funny.  JVS   Jul-02-08 02:10 PM   #170 
  - changed the subject didn't you?.....  BlackVelvet04   Jul-02-08 04:24 PM   #221 
  - Actually sweetie... I didnt say jack shit about the McCain ads.  bunnies   Jul-02-08 04:38 PM   #228 
  - No, dumbass, it's CapitAl....  BlackVelvet04   Jul-02-08 05:05 PM   #231 
  - It's capitAl. They like stupid puns.  JVS   Jul-02-08 05:26 PM   #236 
  - Their wish to be banned has been honored.  tekisui   Jul-03-08 09:40 AM   #335 
     - Good!  bunnies   Jul-03-08 10:08 AM   #338 
  - "I really prefer not to have to be an asshole and flame out."  TahitiNut   Jul-03-08 12:36 AM   #311 
  - Wow, looks like she nailed it.  GoldieAZ49   Jul-02-08 07:02 PM   #263 
  - And do you get to decide what stays on YOUR site?  bunnies   Jul-02-08 02:20 PM   #173 
  - I'd also like to know the answer to this question.  bunnies   Jul-02-08 02:05 PM   #166 
  - This is exactly the crap Skinner is talking about  niceypoo   Jul-02-08 03:59 PM   #209 
  - What's a PUMA?  lark   Jul-02-08 06:19 PM   #249 
     - "Petty Uninformed Mewling Assholes"  Zhade   Jul-02-08 06:28 PM   #250 
        - Pissy Utterly Malignant Agitprop; but I like yours too. nt  blondeatlast   Jul-02-08 07:09 PM   #269 
  - hey there, rodeo  JackORoses   Jul-02-08 04:30 PM   #225 
     - Jack. There's no need to name call. That link alone is reproach enough.  JVS   Jul-02-08 05:22 PM   #234 
     - awww, c'mon. we've put up with this facade for so long  JackORoses   Jul-02-08 05:29 PM   #238 
        - We must take the high road.  JVS   Jul-02-08 05:31 PM   #239 
           - if only there were more like you, JVS  JackORoses   Jul-02-08 05:37 PM   #241 
              - That's kind of you to say.  JVS   Jul-02-08 05:39 PM   #242 
                 - indubitably  JackORoses   Jul-02-08 06:14 PM   #247 
     - Well looky there  Egnever   Jul-02-08 07:56 PM   #281 
     - "Project Shoe Leather""???  TahitiNut   Jul-03-08 12:43 AM   #313 
     - pwned!!!111  shagsak   Jul-03-08 02:49 PM   #344 
  - Mr. Magistrate, with all due respect  thecatburgler   Jul-02-08 11:27 AM   #119 
     - And With All Due Respect In Return, Ma'am  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 11:50 AM   #131 
        - Good grief.  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 01:03 PM   #144 
           - Who ya gonna vote for, Seabiscuit? That's the bottom line here.  Emit   Jul-02-08 02:26 PM   #179 
           - Who ya gonna vote for, Emit? That's the bottom line here.  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 03:10 PM   #191 
              - Do you somehow think that was a CLEVER way to avoid the question?  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 03:29 PM   #198 
              - I don't have to answer your questions any more than you have to answer mine.  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 03:34 PM   #200 
              - I'll answer any questions you put to me. So do you have one?  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 03:41 PM   #203 
                 - OK. I'll believe it when I see it. Here's another question for you, since you wouldn't answer my  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 03:51 PM   #205 
                    - You never asked me the first question.  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 03:57 PM   #208 
                       - .  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 04:24 PM   #220 
              - Well, there`was nothing clever in that response at all  Emit   Jul-02-08 04:00 PM   #211 
              - In a way: partcipation in DU discussions is a tacit form of loyalty oath  Trajan   Jul-04-08 02:24 AM   #359 
           - In case you haven't figured it out, "Free Speech" on a privately owned site doesn't exist.  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 03:10 PM   #192 
           - Unfree speech zone. Love it or leave it.  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 03:12 PM   #193 
              - ...  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 03:28 PM   #197 
                 - WTF??? Where do you get off accusing me of not supporting our nominee???  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 03:32 PM   #199 
                    - I accused you of no such thing. Read and understand BEFORE responding.  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 03:40 PM   #202 
                       - I read it carefully and responded appropriately. You're making the same false accusations with this  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 03:50 PM   #204 
                          - Wow, that's really sad. Have to resort to personal attacks, eh?  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 03:54 PM   #207 
                             - Get lost, little troll, and stop following me around insulting my intelligence.  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 04:26 PM   #223 
                                - I couldn't possibly insult your intelligence.  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 05:23 PM   #235 
                                   - best thread argument ever  shagsak   Jul-03-08 02:57 PM   #346 
           - That's what you took from that?  Forkboy   Jul-02-08 06:13 PM   #246 
              - I can't believe that vocally supporting the nominee has now become comparable...  JVS   Jul-02-08 06:57 PM   #257 
  - I find it very amusing for you to criticize the behavior of others.  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 10:24 AM   #77 
  - Tue Feb-19-08 06:54 PM? I notice you made no post into it. Just performing a bit of opp research?  bridgit   Jul-02-08 11:06 AM   #100 
  - For me to post on that forum would be a violation of the subforum rules.  JVS   Jul-02-08 11:09 AM   #104 
     - If we are all here to enhance; there is nothing that prohibits you from being civil in any forum  bridgit   Jul-02-08 11:11 AM   #106 
        - Non-supporters of a candidate are strongly discouraged from posting in their Supporter Group forum  JVS   Jul-02-08 11:16 AM   #110 
           - AND CALLING OUT a DU member for what was said in that forum in FEBRUARY IS RUDE AT BEST!!  rodeodance   Jul-02-08 01:49 PM   #159 
           - When did you write this?  BushDespiser12   Jul-02-08 08:22 PM   #285 
           - Rodeo, is this true? You are for McCain?  Umbram   Jul-03-08 09:59 AM   #337 
           - so essentially, you support mccain by your own admission  mkultra   Jul-03-08 04:49 PM   #351 
           - February? Good grief.  aquart   Jul-04-08 04:25 AM   #364 
           - well, understood as a practical matter i suppose; but i remain less than convinced...  bridgit   Jul-02-08 09:17 PM   #290 
  - *plonk*  Bunny   Jul-02-08 11:32 AM   #122 
  - You did notice that thread  polmaven   Jul-02-08 01:06 PM   #146 
  - However...  yourguide   Jul-03-08 07:55 AM   #326 
  - I'm ignoring that author so I guess they're  zidzi   Jul-02-08 02:05 PM   #167 
  - you might not want to read it at all.  JVS   Jul-02-08 02:14 PM   #171 
  - For God's sake that's from February  Carni   Jul-02-08 03:27 PM   #196 
  - If you can remember threads I posted months ago, you seriously need to get a life.  pirhana   Jul-02-08 08:18 PM   #284 
     - Hun, why bother?  Marrah_G   Jul-03-08 07:50 AM   #324 
        - Who are you talking to?  sniffa   Jul-03-08 04:26 PM   #350 
  - hopefully, it is-I have concerns about FISA vote and Faithbase  katty   Jul-02-08 03:18 PM   #194 
     - AND . . . I'd like to point out ... that hopefully we reached some EDUCATIONAL levels ...  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:28 PM   #296 
  - Yikes!  Evergreen Emerald   Jul-02-08 09:07 AM   #9 
  - oh please.  FLDem5   Jul-02-08 09:08 AM   #11 
  - Oh please your damn self  Evergreen Emerald   Jul-02-08 09:08 AM   #12 
  - what exactly are you suggesting?!  FLDem5   Jul-02-08 09:11 AM   #14 
     - I think someone is projecting their... ummm....  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 10:34 PM   #292 
  - I don't need ignore to "ignore" that one.  blondeatlast   Jul-02-08 09:11 AM   #13 
     - I don't think posts like this help the discourse at all.  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 09:14 AM   #16 
  - See the OP - he stated it quite clearly.  endarkenment   Jul-02-08 09:18 AM   #21 
  - I always consider the source n/t  Evergreen Emerald   Jul-02-08 07:35 PM   #278 
  - And are you or someone else the authority who watches ....  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:34 PM   #298 
     - No. Get over it. How you choose to behave is how you will be perceived.  endarkenment   Jul-03-08 09:38 AM   #334 
        - ...and remember that we will also be judging your behavior and attempts to intimidate ...  defendandprotect   Jul-04-08 01:07 AM   #356 
  - Don't worry, no blood oaths are involved.. however expresing positive sentiments toward our nominee  SurfingAtWork   Jul-02-08 09:19 AM   #22 
  - Let me suggest to you that free speech is a good place to start ---  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:36 PM   #299 
  - What are you, 2 years old?  asSEENonTV   Jul-02-08 09:21 AM   #24 
  - Loyalty to the party's nominee is a condition of DU membership.  TexasObserver   Jul-02-08 09:50 AM   #43 
  - That's not exactly accurate. What's not allowed is undermining our candidate.  Zhade   Jul-02-08 06:36 PM   #252 
  - Again, I think you have to deal with the fact that criticism and "attacks" are two  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:40 PM   #300 
  - Not even close.  Dr_eldritch   Jul-02-08 12:30 PM   #139 
  - You're still here fighing the primaries..  zidzi   Jul-02-08 02:26 PM   #177 
  - You have to admit that those who trashed Obama while supporting a liar like clinton are suspect.  Zhade   Jul-02-08 06:34 PM   #251 
  - It sounds as if it is you who cannot get over the primaries.  Evergreen Emerald   Jul-02-08 07:52 PM   #280 
  - Just as an aside . . with all the urgent issues . . are you saying yo u keep a scorecard . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:43 PM   #301 
  - Speaking of liars, your 1 of the biggest. Your also 1 of the most suspect of trolls, so STFU  mtnsnake   Jul-03-08 03:52 PM   #348 
  - yes, suprisingly, the democratic underground  mkultra   Jul-03-08 04:52 PM   #352 
  - Most reasonable insight  FLDem5   Jul-02-08 09:07 AM   #10 
  - Sad that the obvious has to be stated, but I'm glad that someone did. Thanks. nt  blondeatlast   Jul-02-08 09:12 AM   #15 
  - Exactly there are a ton of folks who could get criticize Obama and I wouldn't question their motives  wndycty   Jul-02-08 09:14 AM   #18 
  - I TOTALLY agree.  JVS   Jul-02-08 09:17 AM   #19 
  - I find this statement highly objectionable...  Prag   Jul-02-08 09:21 AM   #23 
  - drama, dude...take your high and mighty platitudes to Penn Ave.  asSEENonTV   Jul-02-08 09:23 AM   #26 
  - Thanks for chiming in with worthless chatter...  Prag   Jul-02-08 09:25 AM   #28 
  - Go ahead and speak your mind. Other people will form their opinions accordingly.  JVS   Jul-02-08 09:24 AM   #27 
  - I'm being told I haven't earned the right to speak my mind...  Prag   Jul-02-08 09:29 AM   #31 
     - No, you've been told that if you have consistently been against the man who is now the nominee...  JVS   Jul-02-08 09:32 AM   #33 
  - Please re-read the post, especially the last line. nt  NYC_SKP   Jul-02-08 09:26 AM   #30 
  - I know perfectly well what it says...  Prag   Jul-02-08 09:31 AM   #32 
  - You were not asked to hold your tongue  Zodiak Ironfist   Jul-02-08 09:34 AM   #35 
  - Okay, now that makes some sense...  Prag   Jul-02-08 09:44 AM   #38 
  - Well put interpretation.  Jakes Progress   Jul-02-08 10:09 AM   #56 
     - Sometimes it's all in the way things are stated as well... it is easy to  TBF   Jul-02-08 12:07 PM   #135 
  - given that this board focuses on getting the dem nom elected, it's really not that objectionable...  ourbluenation   Jul-02-08 10:15 AM   #63 
  - That's not at ALL what he said, and you know it.  Shakespeare   Jul-02-08 11:32 AM   #123 
  - Please, don't hold your tongue...  AntiFascist   Jul-02-08 02:03 PM   #165 
  - That says it very well. Demonstrating bona fides.  TexasObserver   Jul-02-08 09:32 AM   #34 
  - This is a huge messageboard. Some people are louder than others...  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 09:36 AM   #36 
  - I'm being attacked for defending Obama and other Dems. It's getting ridiculous.  berni_mccoy   Jul-02-08 09:44 AM   #39 
  - I don't understand.  janesez   Jul-02-08 09:45 AM   #40 
  - This is the downside of being the Admin.  Skinner   Jul-02-08 10:03 AM   #48 
  - Ah, okay. Thanks.  janesez   Jul-02-08 10:05 AM   #51 
  - So there are no "inspections" here to judge how well a poster has supported Obama . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:53 PM   #304 
  - I would seem to mean that only avid supports of Obama are able to critique him...  bridgit   Jul-02-08 10:14 AM   #60 
     - Even they are not allowed to voice a word of criticism, apparently.  QC   Jul-02-08 11:02 AM   #97 
        - I wasn't surprised when I saw madinmaryland get buried under the pile of hate.  janesez   Jul-02-08 11:06 AM   #101 
        - Yes, one who stalked me all over the forum, cursing at me and demanding my expulsion  QC   Jul-02-08 11:13 AM   #107 
        - Karma is a $%^&*  Marrah_G   Jul-02-08 11:50 AM   #130 
        - I think I see less of it then others  Marrah_G   Jul-02-08 11:49 AM   #129 
        - agreed!  bridgit   Jul-02-08 11:09 AM   #105 
           - don't forget the Alert Button Humpers.  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 11:23 AM   #116 
              - Well, that's a very effective strategy.  QC   Jul-02-08 11:46 AM   #128 
  - This tends to disqualify anyone but sycophants from speaking  Romulox   Jul-02-08 09:46 AM   #41 
  - You know, maybe dismissing everyone who believes in the nominee as being a sycophant...  JVS   Jul-02-08 09:53 AM   #44 
  - Thanks for your concern.  Romulox   Jul-02-08 09:59 AM   #47 
     - ...  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 10:09 AM   #55 
     - Sycophants? You must be proud of your use of pejoratives.  TheBorealAvenger   Jul-02-08 03:34 PM   #201 
  - It seems clear enough to me that constructive criticism is acceptable.  NYC_SKP   Jul-02-08 09:58 AM   #45 
  - The mods have done a decent job of allowing constructive criticism  Romulox   Jul-02-08 10:03 AM   #49 
     - You're right--I think it works both ways.  NYC_SKP   Jul-02-08 10:10 AM   #57 
        - yes, and that is one major benefit Obama has over McSame..  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 10:18 AM   #68 
  - You said it Romulux. I feel utterly LIED to during the primaries.  chimpymustgo   Jul-02-08 10:28 AM   #80 
  - The flag flying now is that criticism is an "attack" on the candidate . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:58 PM   #306 
  - I think it's the Negative Nancy syndrome...  ShaneGR   Jul-02-08 10:05 AM   #50 
  - GOBAMA!! There, that was easy...  bridgit   Jul-02-08 10:06 AM   #52 
  - Thank you Skinner. How about zero tolerance for those who are guilty of what you said?  thewiseguy   Jul-02-08 10:07 AM   #53 
  - wow are you serious?  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 10:12 AM   #59 
  - I agree.  terrya   Jul-02-08 10:17 AM   #66 
  - Why should they be around?  thewiseguy   Jul-02-08 10:19 AM   #69 
     - Please clarify  lark   Jul-02-08 06:50 PM   #254 
        - Clarification:  thewiseguy   Jul-02-08 07:25 PM   #275 
           - I believe your observation is correct.  JVS   Jul-02-08 07:28 PM   #276 
  - Purge. Purge.  Jakes Progress   Jul-02-08 10:15 AM   #65 
  - He's already said he's not speaking as an admin, or making rules.  janesez   Jul-02-08 10:17 AM   #67 
  - Your opinion is irrelevant to me  thewiseguy   Jul-02-08 10:20 AM   #70 
     - I'm not giving you an opinion.  janesez   Jul-02-08 10:22 AM   #74 
     - And you are now irrelevant  Marrah_G   Jul-02-08 10:40 AM   #87 
  - Then let's also have a zero tolerance policy  MonkeyFunk   Jul-02-08 10:26 AM   #79 
  - There has to be a zero tolerance policy. I have no problems with your suggestion.  thewiseguy   Jul-02-08 10:31 AM   #82 
  - Actually, I don't believe in zero tolerance policies  MonkeyFunk   Jul-02-08 10:43 AM   #90 
  - Then change the name of this board to Obama  lark   Jul-02-08 07:00 PM   #261 
  - I don't think we need a zero tolerance policy, as some criticisms are not  grantcart   Jul-02-08 10:32 AM   #83 
  - maybe we could just start with people  mkultra   Jul-03-08 05:01 PM   #353 
  - Zero-tolerance? No thanks. You can choose not to engage them as I try to do.  blondeatlast   Jul-02-08 11:18 AM   #112 
  - Is there a telephone "tip" line set up yet to report these people you're accusing?  defendandprotect   Jul-03-08 12:01 AM   #307 
  - I still need to find a disucssion site then  Bluenorthwest   Jul-02-08 10:11 AM   #58 
  - Best Post in This Thread!  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 10:14 AM   #62 
  - The most  Bluenorthwest   Jul-02-08 10:22 AM   #75 
  - Now there is a Democrat.  Jakes Progress   Jul-02-08 10:20 AM   #71 
  - Ding! Winner Winner Chicken Dinner! "Talk is cheap. Political talk is the cheapest."  bridgit   Jul-02-08 10:21 AM   #73 
  - Wow. You got my vote!! Thank you for your smarts and your heart. We need so much  chimpymustgo   Jul-02-08 10:34 AM   #84 
  - WHOA.........good post. I want to K & R it. Please consider making this an OP.  Marrah_G   Jul-02-08 10:38 AM   #85 
  - I had to read from the top down to here to find a post that made me want to stand up and APPLAUD!  1Hippiechick   Jul-02-08 11:55 AM   #133 
  - Every lifelong Democrat I know is united behind one idea: winning the presidency.  TexasObserver   Jul-02-08 11:57 AM   #134 
  - You missed the point  Bluenorthwest   Jul-02-08 01:13 PM   #150 
     - No, I didn't miss the point. I don't agree with you. Learn to understand the difference.  TexasObserver   Jul-02-08 01:26 PM   #155 
        - ???????????"It's great that you're involved, but it's not special. It's ordinary" ??????  1Hippiechick   Jul-02-08 02:15 PM   #172 
        - You missed the point -again. Is that your objective?  Bluenorthwest   Jul-02-08 03:52 PM   #206 
           - No, I got your point, as I've said before. You can't accept that I disagree with you.  TexasObserver   Jul-02-08 03:59 PM   #210 
              - this is discussion. You speak then I do.  Bluenorthwest   Jul-02-08 04:30 PM   #226 
  - And you're the judge of others here . . . ?  defendandprotect   Jul-03-08 12:14 AM   #309 
  - That's nice and all, and I agree with everything you said  MadHound   Jul-02-08 10:23 AM   #76 
  - You Make a Good Point, Sir  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 10:42 AM   #89 
  - A "good portion"?  redqueen   Jul-02-08 02:44 PM   #186 
  - only if small minorities qualify as "good proportions"  mkultra   Jul-03-08 05:05 PM   #354 
  - Most of the jumping on that you refer to, the bullying, the loud demands  QC   Jul-02-08 11:20 AM   #114 
  - I heartily agree with that  Bluenorthwest   Jul-02-08 04:06 PM   #218 
  - Indeed. Look at my sigline - it's been there for months.  Zhade   Jul-02-08 06:43 PM   #253 
  - What makes me laugh is when staunch supporters are accused of not supporting him  Straight Shooter   Jul-02-08 10:41 AM   #88 
  - As far as I can tell, bona fides have nothing to do with it, long-time Obama supporters...  Solon   Jul-02-08 10:43 AM   #91 
  - Perhaps now they understand........  Marrah_G   Jul-02-08 11:45 AM   #127 
  - Before I jump on anyone for criticizing our candidate  shagsak   Jul-03-08 03:42 PM   #347 
     - The new google feature has been a godsend for that!  JVS   Jul-03-08 03:57 PM   #349 
  - thank you. A very reasonable observation!  Douglas Carpenter   Jul-02-08 11:00 AM   #95 
  - Thanks Skinner.  Scurrilous   Jul-02-08 11:05 AM   #99 
  - It is in that nature of people in this culture to fight on a politcal BBS. Therefore...  Bonobo   Jul-02-08 11:07 AM   #103 
  - I think that is a really bad idea. In 2004 we had a stricter set of rules, and a less combative...  JVS   Jul-02-08 11:26 AM   #118 
  - For the Record-Obama at all Costs...  theFrankFactor   Jul-02-08 11:15 AM   #109 
  - Wow, good post.  janesez   Jul-02-08 11:19 AM   #113 
  - Thank you theFrankFactor!  Jesuswasntafascist   Jul-02-08 08:31 PM   #286 
  - Forget it, Skinner. Self-identified PUMAs are allowed to stay here.  thecatburgler   Jul-02-08 11:22 AM   #115 
  - Thank you. Those are the ones I was referring to when I talked about the zero tolerance policy.  thewiseguy   Jul-02-08 11:25 AM   #117 
  - Because they are longtime members and some mods are too kindhearted  thecatburgler   Jul-02-08 11:31 AM   #121 
     - Isn't this a two way street?  totodeinhere   Jul-02-08 11:40 AM   #125 
     - It's entirely possible to be a "longtime member" and not be active in political discussions.  TahitiNut   Jul-02-08 12:11 PM   #137 
        - Thank You, Sir! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You....  The Magistrate   Jul-02-08 12:32 PM   #140 
        - And then you alert, alert, and alert on these people and nothing happens  thecatburgler   Jul-02-08 12:48 PM   #142 
        - So?  TahitiNut   Jul-02-08 01:06 PM   #145 
        - I've been batting 1000 on the TS's as well.  thecatburgler   Jul-02-08 02:24 PM   #176 
        - why don't you just move on?  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 01:14 PM   #153 
        - Then why don't we just open it up to Freepers and other RWers then?  thecatburgler   Jul-02-08 02:21 PM   #175 
           - show me where I said that.  FarceOfNature   Jul-02-08 02:26 PM   #178 
           - You should visit capital hill and see what these folks really think  Warren Stupidity   Jul-02-08 07:24 PM   #274 
           - It is unlikely a large percentage of those who complain about Obama ...  Trajan   Jul-04-08 02:37 AM   #360 
        - You're taking internet discussion forums way too seriously.  sufrommich   Jul-02-08 03:19 PM   #195 
        - So they can TRASH DU'ers on that site and expect to come here  bunnies   Jul-02-08 02:29 PM   #180 
           - The DU rules apply to DU and, as I read them, they're about behavior ('message') and not messenger.  TahitiNut   Jul-02-08 04:25 PM   #222 
              - yeah. You would know, actually.  bunnies   Jul-02-08 05:03 PM   #230 
                 - Freepers are participants in discussions on Free Republic ....  Trajan   Jul-04-08 02:41 AM   #361 
  - About Democrat McCain Voters.  theFrankFactor   Jul-02-08 12:13 PM   #138 
  - I see most of the criticism coming from people who were/are avid Obama supporters during the primary  Marrah_G   Jul-02-08 11:42 AM   #126 
  - A constructive suggestion: To remove all doubt about a poster's loyalty, it might help  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 12:10 PM   #136 
  - No Need To Worry About Your "bona-fides"...  JimGinPA   Jul-02-08 12:50 PM   #143 
  - You want bona fides? Read the DUer's Journal.  TahitiNut   Jul-02-08 01:13 PM   #151 
  - Does your DU'er Journal contain a loyalty oath that those without Journals could use?  Seabiscuit   Jul-02-08 03:00 PM   #190 
     - (Ignoring the snark) I made an Agreement when I signed up on DU to respect the rules.  TahitiNut   Jul-02-08 04:40 PM   #229 
        - When someone talks about being a democrat on this site it's often just a preface to try...  JVS   Jul-02-08 05:15 PM   #233 
        - Fuck yeah ....  Trajan   Jul-04-08 02:45 AM   #362 
  - Horribly unfunny  HughMoran   Jul-02-08 06:53 PM   #255 
  - Seems to me that a 'loyalty oath' was something we all scoffed at when the Bush campaigns used it  MichiganVote   Jul-02-08 09:16 PM   #289 
  - And let's also have a new McCarthy Era ....  defendandprotect   Jul-03-08 12:20 AM   #310 
  - the sound of inevitability  mkultra   Jul-02-08 01:07 PM   #147 
  - Then there are threads like this one  sniffa   Jul-02-08 01:11 PM   #148 
  - Oh my! It's not old either!  JVS   Jul-02-08 01:14 PM   #152 
  - Well, it's several hours old  sniffa   Jul-02-08 04:05 PM   #217 
  - Or...  Lirwin2   Jul-02-08 01:30 PM   #156 
  - Or this lovely peach calling Obama a turd  BushDespiser12   Jul-02-08 02:20 PM   #174 
  - Hmmm  MathGuy   Jul-02-08 02:33 PM   #182 
  - You are ignoring the author of this thread  sniffa   Jul-02-08 02:46 PM   #187 
  - There's still a Hillary Clinton Supporters Group here on DU?  Emit   Jul-02-08 02:31 PM   #181 
  - It's more of a "I won't vote for Obama" group. Take a look...  BushDespiser12   Jul-02-08 02:40 PM   #184 
  - You are ignoring the author of this thread  sniffa   Jul-02-08 02:46 PM   #188 
  - That thread is from February. When Hillary was still a candidate.  janesez   Jul-03-08 07:53 AM   #325 
  - That poster is a McCain supporter now. n/t  geek tragedy   Jul-03-08 07:07 AM   #322 
     - Probably, yes  sniffa   Jul-03-08 02:43 PM   #342 
  - "you actually want our guy to win this thing"... Funny thing about that. I have someone  grace0418   Jul-02-08 01:12 PM   #149 
  - Clear and constructive...  BushDespiser12   Jul-02-08 01:30 PM   #157 
  - Just a word on what I hear daily  Bluenorthwest   Jul-02-08 01:46 PM   #158 
  - Wow! Thanks, Skinner..  zidzi   Jul-02-08 01:53 PM   #160 
  - This is by far one of your best OPs ever.  merh   Jul-02-08 01:55 PM   #162 
  - What do you mean by being taken seriously? Are you  cboy4   Jul-02-08 02:01 PM   #163 
  - Wow, you managed to apply the most strained reading possible to the OP  Umbram   Jul-03-08 09:34 AM   #333 
  - "When passions drive,  H2O Man   Jul-02-08 02:34 PM   #183 
  - Quoting Martin Luther King,Jr:  argeec   Jul-02-08 04:02 PM   #212 
  - I support the principles of the constitution which Obama claims to support  bjobotts   Jul-02-08 04:02 PM   #213 
  - I support him when he remains true to those principles and criticize him when he doesn't  bjobotts   Jul-02-08 04:03 PM   #214 
     - All the while saying he is 100Xs better than McCain unless he starts turning into McCain  bjobotts   Jul-02-08 04:03 PM   #215 
        - Then it is Obama who has changed and not the me who supported him when  bjobotts   Jul-02-08 04:04 PM   #216 
  - Saying you will vote for him no matter what is proof? I hope it is.  Neshanic   Jul-02-08 04:07 PM   #219 
  - I don't think web posts should count as "bona-fides" of anything  AmyCamus   Jul-02-08 04:27 PM   #224 
  - Which leaves me where I always seem to be. In some sort of DU limbo.  Forkboy   Jul-02-08 04:32 PM   #227 
  - Yet you were one of the more vocal DUers during the primary  Lirwin2   Jul-02-08 05:29 PM   #237 
     - Awwww...you still love me.  Forkboy   Jul-02-08 05:34 PM   #240 
     - du bist Nicht dicht....Arschgesicht?  golddigger   Jul-02-08 07:08 PM   #268 
        - LOL  Forkboy   Jul-02-08 07:12 PM   #271 
           - Leck mich am Arsch!  golddigger   Jul-03-08 09:07 AM   #331 
     - Telling the truth about her lies STILL isn't trashing, so sorry you can't grasp that fact.  Zhade   Jul-02-08 06:57 PM   #258 
     - I know how much value you put on the "truth"  Lirwin2   Jul-02-08 07:45 PM   #279 
     - It's gotta be tough for you..still  zidzi   Jul-03-08 12:55 AM   #315 
  - Ich Schwore  Bjornsdotter   Jul-02-08 05:07 PM   #232 
  - Thank you, Skinner  southern_belle   Jul-02-08 05:48 PM   #243 
  - Edwards, Kucinich, both no-shows. Barack isn't dumb. He knows what he's doing.  jazzjunkysue   Jul-02-08 06:00 PM   #244 
  - Wholly supporting Obama in the past gives credibility to those  styersc   Jul-02-08 06:13 PM   #245 
  - The nominee is a better thing than an illegal war. It's a shame that you can't seem to see that.  JVS   Jul-02-08 06:55 PM   #256 
  - Your statement makes absoultely no sense.  styersc   Jul-02-08 07:00 PM   #262 
     - Fixed, and BTW PLONK  JVS   Jul-02-08 07:03 PM   #264 
     - Yet the illogic of the assertion remains.  styersc   Jul-02-08 07:04 PM   #266 
     - ^^^^^ Hey you, I said plonk. Go away.  JVS   Jul-02-08 07:05 PM   #267 
     - Blodes Arschoch!  golddigger   Jul-02-08 07:10 PM   #270 
        - Your German is poor. What's an Arschoch, a high ass?  JVS   Jul-02-08 07:13 PM   #272 
        - "Arschloch" would be German for 'asshole'  TahitiNut   Jul-02-08 07:59 PM   #282 
        - Arschgesicht!  golddigger   Jul-03-08 09:05 AM   #330 
        - One gets the idea you're a coward afraid to post your insults in English.  Forkboy   Jul-02-08 07:30 PM   #277 
     - You spelled "grammar" Wrong..more spelling and  zidzi   Jul-03-08 12:52 AM   #314 
  - No, if anything it calls their judgement into question  LVjinx   Jul-03-08 12:39 AM   #312 
  - Happy to be the 75th Rec  ihavenobias   Jul-02-08 06:19 PM   #248 
  - I feel the same way!  Susanelle   Jul-02-08 06:58 PM   #259 
  - I've been thinkin along the same lines lately  HughMoran   Jul-02-08 06:58 PM   #260 
  - In a sane world you would be correct, but it doesn't always work out that way.  MN Against Bush   Jul-02-08 07:04 PM   #265 
  - There are only 125 days left till the election  peacetrain   Jul-02-08 07:23 PM   #273 
  - Good point... n/t  mirrera   Jul-02-08 08:16 PM   #283 
  - I don't think anyone missed the fact that there is a "put up or shut up" attitude here . . .  defendandprotect   Jul-02-08 11:12 PM   #293 
  - Shouldn't this be locked for starting a flamefest?  last1standing   Jul-02-08 11:32 PM   #297 
  - Its not so simple.  jtt   Jul-02-08 11:58 PM   #305 
     - I'm not really sure how your post reflects on mine.  last1standing   Jul-03-08 09:12 AM   #332 
  - Of course,  jtt   Jul-02-08 11:52 PM   #303 
  - Thank you Skinner.  curious one   Jul-03-08 12:05 AM   #308 
  - I was #99 in recommending this thread.. one more for 100 !!  larissa   Jul-03-08 12:57 AM   #316 
  - I do not give up my brain or my sense of right and wrong  JDPriestly   Jul-03-08 01:34 AM   #318 
  - yea...  jtt   Jul-03-08 02:18 AM   #319 
  - I've decided that it is not worth criticizing Obama or the dems here  mdmc   Jul-03-08 06:37 AM   #320 
     - Glad to hear that you think Obama is better than McCain, but . . .  Cary   Jul-03-08 07:03 AM   #321 
        - Someone is playing to the Republican talking points now and it's  HopeLives   Jul-03-08 08:06 AM   #327 
        - Sorry. I lived in Germany and Austria a long time.  JDPriestly   Jul-03-08 02:20 PM   #340 
        - That seems about right. Many here should talk for a time with folks that have survived Russian...  bridgit   Jul-04-08 01:56 AM   #357 
        - No question at all  mdmc   Jul-03-08 09:36 PM   #355 
  - Completely disturbing thread  mtnester   Jul-03-08 07:33 AM   #323 
  - Thank you Skinner.  yourguide   Jul-03-08 08:16 AM   #328 
  - Criticism runs hand in hand with following the race . . .  kmac3   Jul-03-08 08:30 AM   #329 
  - The problem is that constructive criticism is not allowed anymore.  Mass   Jul-03-08 09:47 AM   #336 
  - There's a big difference between holding someone's feet to the fire & throwing them under the bus.nt  IanDB1   Jul-03-08 11:24 AM   #339 
  - Guy on a thread last night was demanding a poster produce a link  Lars39   Jul-03-08 02:26 PM   #341 
     - As soon as I read this OP, I saw that coming  mtnester   Jul-03-08 02:46 PM   #343 
     - Link?  JimGinPA   Jul-03-08 02:49 PM   #345 
 

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