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Reply #35: That's *not* the full text ... [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Sat Jun-28-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. That's *not* the full text ...
That's the first page.

Please note that there's a "Forward" link on the LOC page. Click it a few times, and you get to these sections:

What you seem not to understand here is that the pending bill amends a prior FISA law and redefines how the FISA court functions. This bill *removes* certain restrictions of the prior FISA court by requiring only periodic review of the process rather than the specifics of the intelligence gathering.

Further, it removes liability from those assisting in the collection of electronic communications, e.g. telecommunications companies, by requiring them only to show that they were given an order either by the court or the President, the Attorney General, or the "head of an element of the intelligence community (or the deputy of such person) ..." Note the language that more specifically requires only that they be *informed* they were being given a legal order, e.g. President Bush hands them an order, says it is legal, and the telecommunications company is thus free from liability regardless of whether the order actually was legal.

This language has the effect of dismissing *every* pending case and preventing future cases as long as someone up there in the government says it is okay for them conduct the surveillance.

With the loophole provided by the "exigent circumstances" clause that allows the AG or intelligence director to engage in collecting surveillance for seven (7) days prior to submitting to the court, surveillance can essentially go on indefinitely as new "exigent circumstances" arise. That part, in effect, would make what Bush was doing in circumventing the court in the first place perfectly legal.

Thus, immunity for the telcos.

SEC. 802. PROCEDURES FOR IMPLEMENTING STATUTORY DEFENSES.

`(a) Requirement for Certification- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a civil action may not lie or be maintained in a Federal or State court against any person for providing assistance to an element of the intelligence community, and shall be promptly dismissed, if the Attorney General certifies to the district court of the United States in which such action is pending that--

`(1) any assistance by that person was provided pursuant to an order of the court established under section 103(a) directing such assistance;

`(2) any assistance by that person was provided pursuant to a certification in writing under section 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) or 2709(b) of title 18, United States Code;

`(3) any assistance by that person was provided pursuant to a directive under section 102(a)(4), 105B(e), as added by section 2 of the Protect America Act of 2007 (Public Law 110-55), or 702(h) directing such assistance;

`(4) in the case of a covered civil action, the assistance alleged to have been provided by the electronic communication service provider was--

`(A) in connection with an intelligence activity involving communications that was--

`(i) authorized by the President during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007; and

`(ii) designed to detect or prevent a terrorist attack, or activities in preparation for a terrorist attack, against the United States; and

`(B) the subject of a written request or directive, or a series of written requests or directives, from the Attorney General or the head of an element of the intelligence community (or the deputy of such person) to the electronic communication service provider indicating that the activity was--

`(i) authorized by the President; and

`(ii) determined to be lawful; or

`(5) the person did not provide the alleged assistance.

`(b) Judicial Review-

`(1) REVIEW OF CERTIFICATIONS- A certification under subsection (a) shall be given effect unless the court finds that such certification is not supported by substantial evidence provided to the court pursuant to this section.

`(2) SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIALS- In its review of a certification under subsection (a), the court may examine the court order, certification, written request, or directive described in subsection (a) and any relevant court order, certification, written request, or directive submitted pursuant to subsection (d).

`(c) Limitations on Disclosure- If the Attorney General files a declaration under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, that disclosure of a certification made pursuant to subsection (a) or the supplemental materials provided pursuant to subsection (b) or (d) would harm the national security of the United States, the court shall--

`(1) review such certification and the supplemental materials in camera and ex parte; and

`(2) limit any public disclosure concerning such certification and the supplemental materials, including any public order following such in camera and ex parte review, to a statement as to whether the case is dismissed and a description of the legal standards that govern the order, without disclosing the paragraph of subsection (a) that is the basis for the certification.

`(d) Role of the Parties- Any plaintiff or defendant in a civil action may submit any relevant court order, certification, written request, or directive to the district court referred to in subsection (a) for review and shall be permitted to participate in the briefing or argument of any legal issue in a judicial proceeding conducted pursuant to this section, but only to the extent that such participation does not require the disclosure of classified information to such party. To the extent that classified information is relevant to the proceeding or would be revealed in the determination of an issue, the court shall review such information in camera and ex parte, and shall issue any part of the court's written order that would reveal classified information in camera and ex parte and maintain such part under seal.

`(e) Nondelegation- The authority and duties of the Attorney General under this section shall be performed by the Attorney General (or Acting Attorney General) or the Deputy Attorney General.

`(f) Appeal- The courts of appeals shall have jurisdiction of appeals from interlocutory orders of the district courts of the United States granting or denying a motion to dismiss or for summary judgment under this section.

`(g) Removal- A civil action against a person for providing assistance to an element of the intelligence community that is brought in a State court shall be deemed to arise under the Constitution and laws of the United States and shall be removable under section 1441 of title 28, United States Code.

`(h) Relationship to Other Laws- Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit any otherwise available immunity, privilege, or defense under any other provision of law.

`(i) Applicability- This section shall apply to a civil action pending on or filed after the date of the enactment of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008.

`SEC. 803. PREEMPTION.

`(a) In General- No State shall have authority to--

`(1) conduct an investigation into an electronic communication service provider's alleged assistance to an element of the intelligence community;

`(2) require through regulation or any other means the disclosure of information about an electronic communication service provider's alleged assistance to an element of the intelligence community;

`(3) impose any administrative sanction on an electronic communication service provider for assistance to an element of the intelligence community; or

`(4) commence or maintain a civil action or other proceeding to enforce a requirement that an electronic communication service provider disclose information concerning alleged assistance to an element of the intelligence community.

`(b) Suits by the United States- The United States may bring suit to enforce the provisions of this section.

`(c) Jurisdiction- The district courts of the United States shall have jurisdiction over any civil action brought by the United States to enforce the provisions of this section.

`(d) Application- This section shall apply to any investigation, action, or proceeding that is pending on or commenced after the date of the enactment of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008.

`SEC. 804. REPORTING.

`(a) Semiannual Report- Not less frequently than once every 6 months, the Attorney General shall, in a manner consistent with national security, the Rules of the House of Representatives, the Standing Rules of the Senate, and Senate Resolution 400 of the 94th Congress or any successor Senate resolution, fully inform the congressional intelligence committees, the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate, and the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives concerning the implementation of this title.

`(b) Content- Each report made under subsection (a) shall include--

`(1) any certifications made under section 802;

`(2) a description of the judicial review of the certifications made under section 802; and

`(3) any actions taken to enforce the provisions of section 803.'.

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  Here is the Full Text of the FISA Bill. I'm not seeing BLANKET immunity to Telecom. berni_mccoy  Jun-28-08 04:49 PM   #0 
   repeating BLANKET IMMUNITY snippet is tatamount to an Obama smear, isn't it?  1Hippiechick   Jun-28-08 04:55 PM   #1 
   No, it is not. n/t  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 11:06 PM   #53 
   My understanding  Mz Pip   Jun-28-08 04:58 PM   #2 
   If they cannot be sued  TheKentuckian   Jun-28-08 05:08 PM   #8 
   The Government is to be held accountable for using the Telecom companies.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 05:37 PM   #12 
   John Dean Weighs In On His FISA Comment  slipslidingaway   Jun-28-08 06:23 PM   #27 
   Check this out. It translates to blanket immunity with . . .  MrModerate   Jun-28-08 05:02 PM   #3 
   It gives the Telecoms RETROACTIVE IMMUNITY... THAT'S the issue!!! n/t  Breeze54   Jun-28-08 05:02 PM   #4 
   It doesn't give them blanket immunity.  merh   Jun-28-08 05:03 PM   #6 
   It means that they can't be prosecuted for illegal spying!! Total BS!!  Breeze54   Jun-28-08 05:17 PM   #10 
      No it doesn't. It does not cover a telecom against breaking the law.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 05:40 PM   #16 
      your hysterical response notwithstanding, it leaves room for criminal prosecution  Lord Helmet   Jun-28-08 05:43 PM   #17 
      You're ridiculous description of my anger is just that... ridiculous.  Breeze54   Jun-28-08 10:49 PM   #46 
      No it does not.  merh   Jun-28-08 05:46 PM   #18 
   No. It does not give them immunity from breaking the law.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 05:38 PM   #13 
   It doesn't give blanket immunity.  merh   Jun-28-08 05:02 PM   #5 
   Title VIII in the Amendments:  Patsy Stone   Jun-28-08 05:08 PM   #7 
   I think you need to read that again. It does not define a person as a telecom.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 05:40 PM   #15 
      ?  Patsy Stone   Jun-28-08 05:51 PM   #19 
      The Text you are citing does not exist in the current form of the bill.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 06:00 PM   #21 
         I believe it is.  Patsy Stone   Jun-28-08 06:14 PM   #24 
         Interesting. I'm siting the one that the Senate has been debating.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 06:17 PM   #26 
         Ok, I see the text. Interesting that there are differences, and I do not know why there are.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 06:28 PM   #29 
            Correct  Patsy Stone   Jun-28-08 06:32 PM   #33 
            Yep, I agree.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 06:34 PM   #34 
            Yes, it does ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 06:59 PM   #37 
         Yes, it does ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 11:31 PM   #55 
      Corporations were given "personhood" by Bush! Did you forget about that? n/t  Breeze54   Jun-28-08 10:48 PM   #45 
         Um...... what?  Political Heretic   Jun-29-08 08:32 PM   #81 
   Senator Feingold sums it up best when he says........  midnight   Jun-28-08 05:16 PM   #9 
   Thank You!!!  Breeze54   Jun-28-08 05:17 PM   #11 
   Maybe Feingold's analysis is deeply flawed. He's been wrong before. Not often, but it does happen.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 05:38 PM   #14 
   Thanks for your work on this,  zidzi   Jun-28-08 05:52 PM   #20 
   Read his statement. Immunity is far from the only concern.  PeaceNikki   Jun-28-08 06:05 PM   #22 
   His issues are a concern, but they are addressed by FISA court review, as they always have been.  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 06:11 PM   #23 
      Oh, he knows it's an issue, just not the biggest concern.  PeaceNikki   Jun-28-08 06:16 PM   #25 
      NATIONAL LAWYERS GUILD CALLS ON SENATE TO VOTE “NO” ON FISA BILL, H.R. 6304  rodeodance   Jun-28-08 06:27 PM   #28 
         Look, I'm not defending the Bill. I'm just saying people are making it into something that it isn't  berni_mccoy   Jun-28-08 06:30 PM   #31 
            You are not mistaken  merh   Jun-28-08 09:30 PM   #39 
            They may not be protected by this bill but the court cases in  harun   Jun-30-08 02:01 PM   #100 
               That is not true  merh   Jun-30-08 08:26 PM   #109 
                  It is true  harun   Jun-30-08 09:59 PM   #112 
                     LOL, you are so wrong.  merh   Jun-30-08 10:12 PM   #117 
                        Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-30-08 11:45 PM   #124 
                           For what? Actually discussing the legislation and understanding it?  merh   Jul-01-08 12:04 AM   #125 
   But just suppose Feingold is right (which is likely)...does it bother you in the least then?  mrone2   Jun-28-08 07:04 PM   #38 
   Russ has been closely following the FISA bills since the beginning. I trust his  rodeodance   Jun-28-08 06:29 PM   #30 
   Error: You've already recommended that thread.  crankychatter   Jun-28-08 06:31 PM   #32 
   That's *not* the full text ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 06:50 PM   #35 
   So Obama was wrong? Because he said he would fight and support an amendment which gets rid of  Mass   Jun-28-08 06:53 PM   #36 
   Yes.... the telecoms broke the law,  Breeze54   Jun-28-08 10:51 PM   #48 
      Thank god ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 11:08 PM   #54 
   I still don't think we'll hit the lawsuit lottery on this issue....sorry Imm doesn't matter.  ileus   Jun-28-08 10:12 PM   #40 
   Who are we going to believe? The words on the bill or the media pundits?  hokies4ever   Jun-28-08 10:27 PM   #41 
   Personally ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 10:30 PM   #42 
      Q. Where does the buck stop?  hokies4ever   Jun-28-08 10:57 PM   #49 
         This is not about Obama ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 11:01 PM   #51 
            Hate to break it to you, but nothing has changed  hokies4ever   Jun-29-08 03:10 AM   #59 
               Oh, that's a good tactic ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-29-08 03:16 AM   #62 
                  All I did was speak the truth  hokies4ever   Jun-29-08 03:27 AM   #64 
   FISA Hissy Fits...  Duder   Jun-28-08 10:33 PM   #43 
   Amazing ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 10:39 PM   #44 
   And that is what this law provides.  merh   Jun-28-08 10:50 PM   #47 
      You are wrong n/t  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 10:59 PM   #50 
         Really?  merh   Jun-28-08 11:51 PM   #56 
            Already done it ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 11:52 PM   #57 
               You've never provided it to me.  merh   Jun-28-08 11:53 PM   #58 
                  It's just easier for him to claim that he's right and you're wrong  hokies4ever   Jun-29-08 03:11 AM   #60 
                  Roll over all you want ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-29-08 03:15 AM   #61 
                  Yawn!  hokies4ever   Jun-29-08 03:26 AM   #63 
                  and apparently they can't comprehend what they read  merh   Jun-29-08 12:31 PM   #71 
                  It's in posts # 19 and #37 above, links here:  dailykoff   Jun-29-08 12:06 PM   #67 
                  certification is SUBJECT TO REVIEW  merh   Jun-29-08 12:29 PM   #70 
                     Right, the certification is. Not the spying, not the targets, just the certificate.  dailykoff   Jun-29-08 12:58 PM   #73 
                        No it is not, despite your desire to be free, there has to be  merh   Jun-29-08 06:06 PM   #74 
                  Money shot: "a civil action . . . shall be promptly dismissed"  dailykoff   Jun-29-08 12:11 PM   #68 
                     Read further on - the certification is subject to appeal and review  merh   Jun-29-08 12:25 PM   #69 
                        The court reviews the certificate, not the action or the target.  dailykoff   Jun-29-08 12:55 PM   #72 
                           LOL - how do folks now know they were tapped? They don't  merh   Jun-29-08 06:09 PM   #75 
                              It's been happening since 2000 without oversight, and this would make that permanent.  dailykoff   Jun-29-08 06:11 PM   #76 
                                 It has been happening long before that, what are you some type  merh   Jun-29-08 06:15 PM   #77 
                                    It provides de facto blanket immunity for the telecoms  dailykoff   Jun-29-08 06:23 PM   #78 
                                    No it does not.  merh   Jun-29-08 06:44 PM   #79 
                                       There is de facto blanket immunity. If a cert shows up, no case.  dailykoff   Jun-29-08 08:27 PM   #80 
                                          You are wrong, it does not.  merh   Jun-29-08 09:06 PM   #82 
                                          Sections 802 (telecom immunity) and 707 (Congressional oversight).  dailykoff   Jun-29-08 09:55 PM   #83 
                                    Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-30-08 12:57 AM   #85 
                                       Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-30-08 01:46 AM   #87 
   Okay, fine ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-28-08 11:05 PM   #52 
   these people disagree with you  Two Americas   Jun-29-08 03:41 AM   #65 
   It has nothing to do with him ...  RoyGBiv   Jun-29-08 09:32 AM   #66 
   Show me one place where it give "blanket" immunity. You can't, and I'm not saying the Bill is good.  berni_mccoy   Jun-29-08 10:23 PM   #84 
      oh  Two Americas   Jun-30-08 01:24 AM   #86 
         I don't see what Obama has to do with this either. You brought him up.  berni_mccoy   Jun-30-08 10:47 AM   #90 
   So, you're pretending that we've been talking about some other blanket?  BuyingThyme   Jun-30-08 02:33 AM   #88 
   You need to go back to (1) and realize that it has always  merh   Jun-30-08 08:51 AM   #89 
      The illegal spying was not done  BuyingThyme   Jun-30-08 11:14 AM   #92 
         Then there is no blankety immunity  merh   Jun-30-08 12:41 PM   #93 
            There is blanket immunity and it is absolute.  BuyingThyme   Jun-30-08 01:42 PM   #97 
               There is no blanket immunity - you can claim there is all you want  merh   Jun-30-08 01:51 PM   #98 
                  No matter how many times you say "God help us,"  BuyingThyme   Jun-30-08 02:02 PM   #101 
                     The 4th amendment is not moot and never will be.  merh   Jun-30-08 08:13 PM   #107 
   The federal district court will toss lawsuits...  Eric J in MN   Jun-30-08 11:11 AM   #91 
   Here you go - this is the catch that you all seem to miss  merh   Jun-30-08 01:02 PM   #94 
      "written request...indicating that the activity was...determined to be lawful"  Eric J in MN   Jun-30-08 01:29 PM   #95 
         Wrong - the certifications can be reviewed and are subject  merh   Jun-30-08 01:38 PM   #96 
         The AG determines the legality, the court and congress check the certificates.  dailykoff   Jun-30-08 01:58 PM   #99 
         You are wrong  merh   Jun-30-08 02:15 PM   #104 
         I don't believe you are correct.  merh   Jun-30-08 08:11 PM   #106 
            I know, you believe the 4th amendment would never permit such a travesty.  dailykoff   Jun-30-08 09:48 PM   #110 
               You have YET to provide me any provision of this bill that  merh   Jun-30-08 09:57 PM   #111 
                  The immunity section is 802 and it's been provided repeatedly.  dailykoff   Jun-30-08 10:05 PM   #114 
                     AND the immunity provision allows for judicial review  merh   Jun-30-08 10:14 PM   #118 
                        Only if certifcation is denied which it won't be.  dailykoff   Jun-30-08 10:15 PM   #119 
                           You need to eat your pudding instead of playing in it.  merh   Jun-30-08 10:29 PM   #121 
         Not explicitly, but implicitly it does by killing all the cases now in the  harun   Jun-30-08 02:12 PM   #103 
            Where does it say the court's cannot rule on that?  merh   Jun-30-08 08:00 PM   #105 
         Keep reading  merh   Jun-30-08 08:18 PM   #108 
            The court gets involved only if the AG denies certification. Otherwise,  dailykoff   Jun-30-08 10:00 PM   #113 
               And the certification means nothing without the court order  merh   Jun-30-08 10:07 PM   #115 
                  Wrong, the AG issues the certificates, and the court adjudicates denials.  dailykoff   Jun-30-08 10:11 PM   #116 
                     Wrong again  merh   Jun-30-08 10:17 PM   #120 
                        People are easily deceived when they want to be. (n/t)  dailykoff   Jun-30-08 10:46 PM   #122 
                           You prove that with every post.  merh   Jun-30-08 10:51 PM   #123 
   Bullshit. We never needed a new FISA bill in the first place...  Juniperx   Jun-30-08 02:02 PM   #102 
 

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