| 57. Astrology is hokum - I much prefer divination from wild goose eggs |
| -Obama's astrological chart |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 11:53 AM |
#0 |
-
So THIS is why he was so reluctant to make his birth certificate public... |
Bicoastal |
Jun-12-08 12:01 PM |
#1 |
 -
:( |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 12:03 PM |
#2 |
-
I've been wary of astrology ever since I was 21... |
Bicoastal |
Jun-12-08 12:06 PM |
#4 |
-
Okay. |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 12:07 PM |
#5 |
-
I'm sorry to hear that..most unfortunate.. |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:16 PM |
#12 |
 -
it's a form of religion, and some of us like to keep that stuff out of politics |
foo_bar |
Jun-12-08 12:54 PM |
#47 |
  -
Well-- that's all of philosophy too. |
LanternWaste |
Jun-12-08 01:41 PM |
#65 |
   -
I think you mean "Wittgenstein", if you're confusing philosophers with theologians |
foo_bar |
Jun-12-08 02:06 PM |
#73 |
  -
I was under the impression that |
LanternWaste |
Jun-12-08 02:14 PM |
#75 |
  -
my main beef isn't with intractable belief systems, it's proselytism |
foo_bar |
Jun-12-08 02:26 PM |
#76 |
  -
I think the OP answered to that very point |
LanternWaste |
Jun-12-08 02:37 PM |
#79 |
  -
the OP consists of a "star chart" |
foo_bar |
Jun-12-08 02:59 PM |
#83 |
  -
Astrology is, in many ways, a totalitarian thought-form. |
Nabeshin |
Jun-12-08 05:56 PM |
#111 |
  -
nah |
marions ghost |
Jun-13-08 10:15 AM |
#184 |
 -
I don't see praying as a prerequisite for religion |
foo_bar |
Jun-13-08 10:40 AM |
#186 |
 -
I had an astrologer tell me that my girlfriend and I were going to break up |
Indenturedebtor |
Jun-12-08 12:54 PM |
#48 |
-
That Day to Day Stuff |
otohara |
Jun-12-08 04:41 PM |
#100 |
-
did the person tell you when? Because it could happen one day. |
dorktv |
Jun-13-08 12:05 AM |
#159 |
-
LOL, so you'd have plenty of time to have a crappy life? n/t |
gkhouston |
Jun-12-08 01:01 PM |
#52 |
-
Hmmm.... |
Dr_eldritch |
Jun-12-08 08:29 PM |
#130 |
-
I've got a bucket of chicken guts that proves this chart wrong. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Jun-12-08 12:04 PM |
#3 |
 -
I've got some breading & a can of Crisco. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? |
Bucky |
Jun-12-08 12:28 PM |
#20 |
-
Is the breading made from corn flakes? |
janesez |
Jun-12-08 01:22 PM |
#59 |
-
Even with the link to the thread, I have absolutely no idea what that means. |
terrya |
Jun-12-08 12:08 PM |
#6 |
 -
It means this: |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Jun-12-08 12:15 PM |
#9 |
-
I know what that is |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 12:16 PM |
#11 |
-
I didn't know what that was, |
Bill McBlueState |
Jun-12-08 12:22 PM |
#15 |
-
Well, that clears things up! Thanks! |
terrya |
Jun-12-08 12:35 PM |
#26 |
-
I don't get it |
uberllama42 |
Jun-12-08 01:23 PM |
#60 |
-
What noise does a theremin make? n/t |
moggie |
Jun-12-08 02:30 PM |
#78 |
-
Ah. |
uberllama42 |
Jun-12-08 03:18 PM |
#92 |
-
Hehehe... very good. |
Dr_eldritch |
Jun-12-08 08:31 PM |
#131 |
-
It looks like Pluto and Chiron "count"? |
Bill McBlueState |
Jun-12-08 12:09 PM |
#7 |
 -
well, it's Plutoid *now* |
CreekDog |
Jun-12-08 05:15 PM |
#106 |
 -
Astrology doesn't care about the arbitrary definition of a planet. |
BalancedGoat |
Jun-12-08 07:40 PM |
#121 |
-
Chiron, from what I've been told.... |
moriah |
Jun-12-08 11:16 PM |
#152 |
-
Believe me; if you find out more about it, it'll be even easier to dismiss as a crazy superstition |
Orrex |
Jun-13-08 12:07 AM |
#162 |
-
ooo now he can be like Reagan |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 12:14 PM |
#8 |
 -
Nothing wrong with astrology. |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:22 PM |
#17 |
-
Astrology is not knowledge. Astrology is the antithesis of knowledge. {EOM} |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 12:24 PM |
#18 |
 -
That's your opinion..thanks for |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:34 PM |
#24 |
-
Do you find my lack of faith disturbing? |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 12:37 PM |
#29 |
 -
Well goodie for you! |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 12:38 PM |
#30 |
 -
No but Mars is in Uranus. |
48percenter |
Jun-12-08 12:41 PM |
#32 |
 -
I think you can think what you want.. |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:48 PM |
#38 |
-
I think |
Gilligan |
Jun-13-08 11:57 AM |
#189 |
-
actually there's a lot wrong with astrology |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 12:41 PM |
#31 |
 -
Can't you naysayers just view this for entertainment purposes only and if you don't find it |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 12:43 PM |
# |
  -
note that I didn't reply to this post in the astrology forum |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 12:48 PM |
#37 |
   -
Touche |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 12:49 PM |
#39 |
   -
I was in the astrology forum and a discussion on politics broke out. n/t |
greguganus |
Jun-13-08 12:09 PM |
#196 |
  -
Entertainment is wondering whether Superman and Batman will appear together in a movie. |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Jun-12-08 05:54 PM |
#110 |
   -
Fucking genius! |
Gilligan |
Jun-13-08 12:20 PM |
#199 |
  -
"Entertainment purposes only"? Put it in the damn lounge, then. nt |
greyl |
Jun-12-08 06:32 PM |
#117 |
   -
Don't get your feathers in a bunch. There are many threads that are entertaining in GD:P besides |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 06:54 PM |
#118 |
  -
This isn't the only thread that's fucking stupid, but that doesn't make it right. nt |
greyl |
Jun-12-08 07:35 PM |
#119 |
  -
Then why do you bother? I mean really? |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 10:53 PM |
#146 |
  -
You do not get to |
Gilligan |
Jun-13-08 12:07 PM |
#193 |
  -
Just say nay. n/t |
greguganus |
Jun-13-08 12:08 PM |
#194 |
 -
Carl Sagan kicks ass! {EOM} |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 12:43 PM |
#34 |
  -
But could Batman kick Superman's ass? n/t |
greguganus |
Jun-13-08 12:11 PM |
#197 |
 -
No way |
Gilligan |
Jun-13-08 12:35 PM |
#209 |
 -
There's always at least two school's of thought on practically |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:46 PM |
#36 |
-
right: the reality-based community's school of thought |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 12:49 PM |
#41 |
-
If that makes you feel better to |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:51 PM |
#42 |
-
thanks for your permission |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 12:53 PM |
#45 |
-
I'm having flashbacks of "The Meeting Room" |
Bleachers7 |
Jun-12-08 11:14 PM |
#151 |
-
There is a lot wrong with astrology - its epistimologically bankrupt |
grantcart |
Jun-13-08 09:46 AM |
#181 |
-
Venus in Cancer: |
ribofunk |
Jun-12-08 12:15 PM |
#10 |
 -
LOL! |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 12:30 PM |
#21 |
 -
There's so much interest in Obama's birth certificate.... |
noel711 |
Jun-12-08 12:35 PM |
#25 |
-
I'll be posting a phrenology report later. |
Blue-Jay |
Jun-12-08 12:18 PM |
#13 |
-
If I read this chart correctly... |
Jeff In Milwaukee |
Jun-12-08 12:19 PM |
# |
 -
Correct readings of astrological charts have the same value as incorrect readings... |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 12:22 PM |
#16 |
  -
You know I'm kidding, right? |
Jeff In Milwaukee |
Jun-12-08 12:31 PM |
#22 |
 -
LOl, Nice! |
ChimpersMcSmirkers |
Jun-12-08 10:08 PM |
#143 |
-
Superstitious nonsense. {EOM} |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 12:19 PM |
#14 |
 -
ooo, I'm sure that was convincing |
Abacus |
Jun-12-08 12:46 PM |
#35 |
-
I never understood, either.. |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:49 PM |
#40 |
 -
Criticizing astrology is unhealthy? That takes the cake. {EOM} |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 12:52 PM |
#44 |
-
No, driving it into the |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:58 PM |
#51 |
-
I don't think that anyone implied that criticism in and of itself is wrong |
LanternWaste |
Jun-12-08 01:52 PM |
#68 |
-
What is wrong about ridiculing astrology? |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 02:50 PM |
#82 |
-
That people still need to be convinced that astrology is nonsense is precisely the problem. {EOM} |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 12:51 PM |
#43 |
-
How true. The problem is a bunch of people who read their horoscopes. |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 12:53 PM |
#46 |
 -
Correct. The surrender of reason is precisely the problem. {EOM} |
The Night Owl |
Jun-13-08 09:25 AM |
#180 |
-
Be careful. Some astrologers have voodoo friends and they may make a doll in your image. n/t |
greguganus |
Jun-13-08 12:14 PM |
#198 |
-
Who are you to tell people what they believe is wrong? |
easttexaslefty |
Jun-13-08 08:11 AM |
#174 |
-
People can dismiss what I have to say about astrology, but what they should not dismiss... |
The Night Owl |
Jun-13-08 09:11 AM |
#179 |
-
good luck |
marions ghost |
Jun-13-08 11:04 AM |
#187 |
-
"Live and let live, when it's not hurting anybody." |
The Night Owl |
Jun-13-08 12:26 PM |
#201 |
-
Double post. Ignore. {EOM} |
The Night Owl |
Jun-13-08 12:26 PM |
#202 |
-
Thanks for posting this, helderheid.. |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:25 PM |
#19 |
 -
Thank YOU! I just have to... |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 12:32 PM |
#23 |
  -
I'm going to read it later.. |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:36 PM |
#28 |
 -
That's a common defense of astrology |
Bill McBlueState |
Jun-12-08 12:54 PM |
#49 |
-
I taught myself and there's nothing wrong |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 01:08 PM |
#54 |
 -
Once again, you decline to make the merest case for astrology |
uberllama42 |
Jun-12-08 02:01 PM |
#72 |
  -
Either you believe, or you don't. |
lildreamer316 |
Jun-12-08 11:26 PM |
#153 |
 -
True |
uberllama42 |
Jun-13-08 01:30 AM |
#163 |
 -
Astrology is a tingly symptom of a greater, graver ill. nt |
greyl |
Jun-13-08 01:49 AM |
#166 |
 -
or maybe we understand all too well |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 03:01 PM |
#86 |
-
Pretty general statement about astrologers there |
moonlady0623 |
Jun-12-08 03:00 PM |
#85 |
-
I believe in astrology to some extent... |
kentuck |
Jun-12-08 12:36 PM |
#27 |
 -
Since I've been appying |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 12:42 PM |
#33 |
-
Let's hope he lives up to his Mars in Virgo. |
RadiationTherapy |
Jun-12-08 12:57 PM |
#50 |
-
What does John McCain's look like? |
whistle |
Jun-12-08 01:07 PM |
#53 |
 -
That would be interesting! I need to find out when and what time and where he was born |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 01:09 PM |
#55 |
  -
Good luck we can't even get a birth certificate from McCain |
whistle |
Jun-12-08 01:29 PM |
#61 |
 -
Kind of difficult to drag a cave wall into a press conference... |
Prag |
Jun-12-08 03:17 PM |
#91 |
 -
like this |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 01:09 PM |
#56 |
 -
here you go! |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 01:20 PM |
#58 |
-
Astrology is hokum - I much prefer divination from wild goose eggs |
EstimatedProphet |
Jun-12-08 01:12 PM |
#57 |
 -
or readings from chicken entrails |
whistle |
Jun-12-08 01:32 PM |
#62 |
 -
Poppycock, I say! Reading goat entrails is the only way to know the future! |
TexasObserver |
Jun-13-08 02:22 AM |
#167 |
-
How does astrology work, exactly? |
uberllama42 |
Jun-12-08 01:36 PM |
#63 |
 -
See post 66. |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 01:43 PM |
#67 |
  -
Post #66 doesn't address any of my questions |
uberllama42 |
Jun-12-08 01:55 PM |
#69 |
 -
I'm no expert. Maybe an astrologer can answer your question. |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 03:09 PM |
#89 |
 -
It works because planets are pinholes in the sackcloth that surrounds Earth |
EstimatedProphet |
Jun-12-08 02:37 PM |
#80 |
  -
Heresy! |
Prag |
Jun-12-08 03:13 PM |
#90 |
  -
I asked you |
Gilligan |
Jun-13-08 12:30 PM |
#205 |
 -
I'll answer as best I can. |
BalancedGoat |
Jun-12-08 08:19 PM |
#124 |
 -
i'll bite... |
druidity33 |
Jun-12-08 09:42 PM |
#140 |
-
LOL |
Bornaginhooligan |
Jun-13-08 12:05 PM |
#191 |
-
You really should have posted this in the Astrology, Spirituality & Alternative Healing forum... |
DRoseDARs |
Jun-12-08 01:38 PM |
#64 |
 -
I did. I posted this here knowing that some who would find it interesting may not |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 01:42 PM |
#66 |
-
Ce la vie. |
DRoseDARs |
Jun-12-08 04:55 PM |
#103 |
-
that is a very healthy attitude |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 05:09 PM |
#105 |
-
Oh no! Obama hangs to the RIGHT! |
PelosiFan |
Jun-12-08 01:58 PM |
#70 |
 -
! |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 01:59 PM |
#71 |
-
I don't have a strong opinion about astrology. But I think this is a fun read. |
SalviaBlue |
Jun-12-08 02:12 PM |
#74 |
-
But what's his Meyers-Briggs type? |
FloridaJudy |
Jun-12-08 02:26 PM |
#77 |
-
Is that a sun in Leo in the 7th house (nearly) conjunct mercury? |
Generator |
Jun-12-08 02:42 PM |
#81 |
-
For those of us who have no idea what these charts mean |
rox63 |
Jun-12-08 02:59 PM |
#84 |
 -
To summarize, the charts say... |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 03:04 PM |
#87 |
  -
.. |
WritingIsMyReligion |
Jun-12-08 04:24 PM |
#97 |
 -
I wish I could! My sister can read them - I can't. If you click the link though there is a detailed |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 03:05 PM |
#88 |
-
I had a Spirograph when I was a kid, too! |
asthmaticeog |
Jun-12-08 04:01 PM |
#93 |
 -
Combine that with a Lite Brite and you TOO can be a Nostradumbass. |
Blue-Jay |
Jun-12-08 04:22 PM |
#95 |
  -
I made a Lego Carlos Casteneda when I was a kid. |
asthmaticeog |
Jun-12-08 06:27 PM |
#116 |
 -
ROTFLMAO |
Joanie Baloney |
Jun-13-08 12:26 PM |
#203 |
 -
Fool !!! Everyone knows you have to have a SUPER spirograph!! n/t |
greguganus |
Jun-13-08 12:22 PM |
#200 |
-
The most interesting thing about astrology I ever read ... |
Straight Shooter |
Jun-12-08 04:17 PM |
#94 |
-
I never understand how anybody believes that large pieces of gas and rock in space can influence |
WritingIsMyReligion |
Jun-12-08 04:23 PM |
#96 |
 -
"Also pretty vague, but also pretty different" |
uberllama42 |
Jun-12-08 04:28 PM |
#98 |
-
I adore his voice. |
WritingIsMyReligion |
Jun-12-08 05:57 PM |
#112 |
-
Ever see the YouTube clip where they take Sagan's voice |
uberllama42 |
Jun-12-08 06:03 PM |
#114 |
-
Nancy??? |
BigDDem |
Jun-12-08 04:32 PM |
#99 |
-
My astrologer told me last week that they had a new birth time on Senator Obama |
riskpeace |
Jun-12-08 04:47 PM |
#101 |
 -
Aquarius Rising |
otohara |
Jun-12-08 04:56 PM |
#104 |
  -
I'm Leo with Scorpio Rising. |
riskpeace |
Jun-12-08 08:23 PM |
#128 |
  -
LOL - I'm a Scorpio rising. Don't believe in it, but don't worry. We are normal. :) |
krabigirl |
Jun-13-08 10:33 AM |
#185 |
 -
Yes, he's Aquarius rising - I finally managed to read it. Fascinating! |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 06:26 PM |
#115 |
-
It is fascinating. |
riskpeace |
Jun-12-08 08:22 PM |
#125 |
-
Thanks For Posting This |
otohara |
Jun-12-08 04:48 PM |
#102 |
 -
The world awaits your prognostications. Godspeed. |
The Night Owl |
Jun-12-08 05:21 PM |
#107 |
-
Insulting Me |
otohara |
Jun-12-08 05:25 PM |
#108 |
-
Does it make you feel superior |
easttexaslefty |
Jun-13-08 08:20 AM |
#175 |
-
Yes. I consider the science way of thinking to be superior to... |
The Night Owl |
Jun-13-08 09:05 AM |
#177 |
-
Thank you very much. |
Major Hogwash |
Jun-12-08 05:52 PM |
#109 |
-
I wear tin foil hats exactly for this reason. |
stratomagi |
Jun-12-08 05:59 PM |
#113 |
 -
Magic 8 Ball Anyone? |
ninja8590 |
Jun-12-08 08:13 PM |
#122 |
-
I'm not sure whether I should be embarrassed by this Liberal foolishness or... |
Orrex |
Jun-12-08 07:38 PM |
#120 |
-
Astrology is bullshit. That's about all. |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-12-08 08:14 PM |
#123 |
 -
That's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. |
Raster |
Jun-12-08 08:23 PM |
#127 |
  -
It's not a matter of opinion. You don't get to declare your own facts. |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-12-08 08:27 PM |
#129 |
 -
Very few astrologers believe in a causative relationship. nt |
BalancedGoat |
Jun-12-08 08:41 PM |
#133 |
 -
Yep. Correlation does NOT equal causation. |
moriah |
Jun-12-08 10:33 PM |
#144 |
 -
Nor does correlation exist between astrology and real life. |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-13-08 12:02 AM |
#156 |
 -
Considering that many astrological interpretations are rather vague.... |
moriah |
Jun-13-08 04:12 AM |
#170 |
 -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jun-12-08 10:51 PM |
#145 |
  -
wow |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 11:56 PM |
#155 |
  -
If you like. Most of those don't make claims which are absolutely false, |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-13-08 12:03 AM |
#158 |
 -
Am I? I POSTED A FUCKING ASTROLOGICAL CHART. I am flabbergasted at some of the reactions. |
helderheid |
Jun-13-08 09:04 AM |
#176 |
 -
He is referring to your deleted post, not the OP. nt |
greyl |
Jun-13-08 12:01 PM |
#190 |
 -
Mods, if you're going to delete my response to this, then this message |
helderheid |
Jun-13-08 09:07 AM |
#178 |
-
It isn't a matter of belief systems. |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-13-08 09:51 AM |
#182 |
-
Your hypocriticism is showing. |
helderheid |
Jun-13-08 11:49 AM |
#188 |
 -
I believe you mean, |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-13-08 12:29 PM |
#204 |
-
This is like replying to |
Gilligan |
Jun-13-08 12:33 PM |
#207 |
-
Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga. |
bleever |
Jun-12-08 08:23 PM |
#126 |
-
I wish the people posting this stuff were all trolls, |
antfarm |
Jun-12-08 08:35 PM |
#132 |
 -
Wait! Are Saying Jesus Didn't Ride Dinosaurs????? |
Beetwasher |
Jun-12-08 08:46 PM |
#134 |
-
Thanks for the links |
blogslut |
Jun-12-08 08:49 PM |
#135 |
-
Thanks helderheid! |
Duder |
Jun-12-08 08:56 PM |
#136 |
-
Thank you for posting this - very interesting. (C'mon, surely one more DUer can give this a 5th rec) |
scarletwoman |
Jun-12-08 09:04 PM |
#137 |
-
Interesting. I do like astrology. |
moriah |
Jun-12-08 09:10 PM |
#138 |
-
Kick -- I already rec'd -- just to piss off the materialists. |
scarletwoman |
Jun-12-08 09:32 PM |
#139 |
 -
not materialists -- realists. |
eShirl |
Jun-12-08 09:46 PM |
#141 |
  -
Well, MY "reality" happens to include more than just the physical dimension. |
scarletwoman |
Jun-12-08 09:55 PM |
#142 |
   -
We have empirically documented reality; you have some far-out wishful thinking |
Orrex |
Jun-13-08 12:03 AM |
#157 |
   -
There is no "before" the big bang. |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-13-08 12:05 AM |
#160 |
   -
You mean what happened before time came into existence? |
SanchoPanza |
Jun-13-08 04:41 AM |
#172 |
   -
Your reality includes imagination? |
Bornaginhooligan |
Jun-13-08 12:06 PM |
#192 |
  -
post 145 |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 10:55 PM |
#147 |
 -
Hey, non-materialist! |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 10:57 PM |
#148 |
-
Funny how threatening this is compared to LOLcats! |
helderheid |
Jun-12-08 11:01 PM |
#149 |
 -
I was thinking about it |
zidzi |
Jun-12-08 11:04 PM |
#150 |
 -
LOLcats do not make verifiably false claims, nor do they |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-13-08 12:06 AM |
#161 |
-
What on earth are they spending the money on? |
moriah |
Jun-13-08 04:09 AM |
#169 |
-
"Unless you're lazy as well as gullible." |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-13-08 09:52 AM |
#183 |
-
Hey! It certainly is a hoot. |
scarletwoman |
Jun-13-08 06:43 AM |
#173 |
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"Astrology’s predictions always fail, and it has been falsified repeatedly." |
greyl |
Jun-12-08 11:54 PM |
#154 |
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Yes, we know you believe every bad thing |
zidzi |
Jun-13-08 01:34 AM |
#164 |
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Yes, we know your post is misdirection. nt |
greyl |
Jun-13-08 01:46 AM |
#165 |
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I believe astro theology was the basis for Egyptian and Mesopotamian religions, circa 1000-2500 BCE |
TexasObserver |
Jun-13-08 02:29 AM |
#168 |
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Star gazing was important for early civilizations. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Jun-13-08 12:09 PM |
#195 |
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I've also heard you can learn a lot about a person by |
antfarm |
Jun-13-08 04:23 AM |
#171 |
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Now that even the freepers are making fun of this thread... |
Greyskye |
Jun-13-08 12:31 PM |
#206 |
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Whether the subhumans are laughing at our woo-woos or not, |
Occam Bandage |
Jun-13-08 12:33 PM |
#208 |
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Locking |
CabalPowered |
Jun-13-08 01:10 PM |
#210 |