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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
23. Ordinarily
being so close in the delegate contest would make her nearly a mandatory choice. ALL things aside and looking at the basic rules in wise Veep selection, she is not a good match. She competes with Obama and is not going to be a compatible team player. More importantly, she harms the ticket among independents and crossover Republicans. Arkansas is not much to attract "balance". Dems already attract the women's vote. Hillary could try to undo the damage she has done there without being the VP nominee, but in the campaign it is not too clear what kind of help she(and Bill) will be in taking orders from the Obama camp and not being the willing or unwilling focus of extremely manipulative MSM attention. Automatic harm will be done in playing HRC off against Obama or distracting and enlisting GOP enthusiasm against the ticket. That alone is solid guarantee. Her "experience" touting has already taken major hits or derailing.

Obama is strong in his own right but really cannot afford to carry a continuing rival into the cheat machine and then to the WH where traditionally Veeps are buried alive, but in this case the MSM will likely continue to ferret out dissent and division and distraction. As for Latinos, this would be better served with the experienced Richardson who would not be particularly perceived as mainly a "historic" first. The woman issue, only with the help of Hillary disabusing her loyal base, could be served by Karen
Sebelius, but in any case the VP selection should be 100% compatible with Obama and be seen as a solid possible replacement and complement to the work needed to be done. With ALL the work to be done we need each cabinet member to be strong for the concepts and the team. The certainties of harm outweigh the maybes of benefit and the rivalries will be cemented in place instead of real healing beneath the show of unity.

Hillary's dilemma, which she did not want or plan for, is whether to continue a scorched earth pursuit of the number spot, now lost, seamlessly into the fight for number two- which has rarely ever been a fight at all and the choice of the presidential nominee. Such a fight will openly signal the beginning of a an "undream" ticket which will crumble all but her most fanatical support and worse in November.
She should waste no time herself in facing realities. She has little time or room to salvage anything from her efforts and the price she must pay upfront is the Veep selection AND enthusiastically undoing all the harm. Personally this is not much for her efforts, but much for the greater good of party and nation and world. In the end that would be to her greatest credit as well, something she has not seen all too clearly in the pursuit of the presidency.
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  -Regardless of how you feel about her, do you think Clinton is a good strategic choice for VP? Onlooker  May-16-08 09:18 AM   #0 
  - Being a former Republican is "impressive credentials"?  wienerdoggie   May-16-08 09:19 AM   #1 
  - Strategically speaking  Onlooker   May-16-08 09:22 AM   #6 
  - would not help Obama get elected and would contradict his no lobbyist policy  WillYourVoteBCounted   May-16-08 10:51 AM   #55 
  - Yes........  RichGirl   May-16-08 10:06 AM   #38 
  - No. We need independents to beat McCain. She will repel many  Old Crusoe   May-16-08 09:20 AM   #2 
  - Hillary as VP would make a mockery of everything Obama has accomplished  rocknation   May-16-08 09:20 AM   #3 
  - No. Someone w/ foreign policy-diplomatic experience would be better...  elehhhhna   May-16-08 09:21 AM   #4 
  - I can understand both perspectives  Sherman A1   May-16-08 09:21 AM   #5 
  - Democrats would like it, and I wouldn't object  eridani   May-16-08 10:02 AM   #35 
  - There certainly are some strengths to the choice, primarily  mmonk   May-16-08 09:22 AM   #7 
  - Possibly. Pros and cons to it.  PeterU   May-16-08 09:22 AM   #8 
  - This quote disturbs me  Zodiak Ironfist   May-16-08 09:50 AM   #28 
  - You are right.  RichGirl   May-16-08 10:14 AM   #41 
  - NO, NO, NO, NO... AND NADA!  ChiciB1   May-16-08 09:24 AM   # 
  - No, absolutely not.  Hepburn   May-16-08 09:24 AM   #9 
  - No.  harun   May-16-08 09:25 AM   # 
  - I don't. Many of the reasons have been stated by others here. To go over  NC_Nurse   May-16-08 09:25 AM   #10 
  - He needs Foreign/Military experience on the ticket to counter McCain  NotThisTime   May-16-08 09:29 AM   #13 
     - Exactly. She and Bill could have some official or unofficial positions with the  NC_Nurse   May-16-08 09:32 AM   #17 
  - No.  lojasmo   May-16-08 09:26 AM   #11 
  - No. Unless you want eight more years of Clinton obsession by the media.  DemItAllAnyway   May-16-08 09:29 AM   #12 
  - The best strategy would be for her to just go back to the Senate.  Gidney N Cloyd   May-16-08 09:30 AM   #14 
  - She could really make a difference in the Senate  goclark   May-16-08 10:36 AM   #44 
  - NO!  redqueen   May-16-08 09:30 AM   #15 
  - It is not a good strategy to tie an anchor to one's waist while swimming.  Tierra_y_Libertad   May-16-08 09:30 AM   #16 
  - NO  havocmom   May-16-08 09:32 AM   #18 
  - Fuck no!  backscatter712   May-16-08 09:33 AM   #19 
  - A down-ticket chainsaw massacre. nt  billyoc   May-16-08 09:33 AM   #20 
  - Not a good strategic choice at all for two practical reasons  newmajority   May-16-08 09:35 AM   #21 
  - No. It undercuts the "change" message with an eye to the past  SoonerPride   May-16-08 09:35 AM   #22 
  - Ordinarily  PATRICK   May-16-08 09:39 AM   #23 
  - Yes  MonkeyFunk   May-16-08 09:41 AM   #24 
  - Can you elaborate as to why you think that?  Lucky 13   May-16-08 09:46 AM   #26 
     - First and most obvious -  MonkeyFunk   May-16-08 09:54 AM   #30 
  - Honestly, objectively, the answer is NO.  Lucky 13   May-16-08 09:45 AM   #25 
  - Agree with your reasons, but think we need a woman governor.  sfam   May-16-08 10:03 AM   #36 
     - I respect and agree with your argument, but think that impact will be small.  Lucky 13   May-16-08 11:06 AM   #56 
  - If you want the General Election to be all about ....  earthside   May-16-08 09:50 AM   #27 
  - No, it would reinforce the everybody is a winner nobody loses, ie we can't make tough decisions. n/t  CK_John   May-16-08 09:57 AM   #33 
  - No, there are better options..need to go west..  tokenlib   May-16-08 09:51 AM   #29 
  - ## DON'T DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##  DU GrovelBot   May-16-08 09:54 AM   #31 
  - Are you kidding? Clinton = Albatross.  Kitsune   May-16-08 09:55 AM   #32 
  - No. The right wing whackjobs will come out to vote against her in droves  eridani   May-16-08 10:01 AM   #34 
  - Sure, if you want to see the heads of Obama supporters explode.  WinkyDink   May-16-08 10:04 AM   #37 
  - absolutely Not!!!!!!!!!! You end up with the package deal - Bill (and Monica) come along as  NRaleighLiberal   May-16-08 10:06 AM   #39 
  - No  Liberal Gramma   May-16-08 10:07 AM   #40 
  - Im on the wall on this one  BigD_95   May-16-08 10:21 AM   #42 
  - Hillary brought corrupt union chiefs . ..  BearSquirrel2   May-16-08 10:44 AM   #52 
  - Strategic? Better to maintain "strategic majority" in the US Senate.  suston96   May-16-08 10:32 AM   #43 
  - No, she is not ...  BearSquirrel2   May-16-08 10:36 AM   #45 
  - Not looking at personal like or dislike  marlakay   May-16-08 10:39 AM   #46 
  - No, just the opposite  pbca   May-16-08 10:39 AM   #47 
  - I did at one time.  graywarrior   May-16-08 10:40 AM   #48 
  - absolutely NOT--he wants someone to attract voters, not drive them away  ima_sinnic   May-16-08 10:42 AM   #49 
  - No because 1) she has already said Obama isn't ready to be commander in chief  book_worm   May-16-08 10:43 AM   #50 
  - NO NO NO NO NO  cliffordu   May-16-08 10:43 AM   #51 
  - No x 1000000.00  olkaz   May-16-08 10:47 AM   #53 
  - RE: VP  cjsmom44   May-16-08 10:48 AM   #54 
  - Hell Noooooooooooooooooooooo eom  spokane   May-16-08 11:07 AM   #57 
  - I think her posiitves are canceled out for the most part by her negatives.  Lisa0825   May-16-08 11:08 AM   #58 
  - She would completely doom the ticket.  BlooInBloo   May-16-08 11:09 AM   #59 
  - no no no no no no no...  dkf   May-16-08 11:10 AM   #60 
  - Nyet...  Clear Blue Sky   May-16-08 11:10 AM   #61 
  - Honestly, no.  Terran   May-16-08 11:16 AM   #62 
  - Of Course She Is. It's The Best Scenario Out There For Us. Those Saying Otherwise Use Foolish  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   May-16-08 11:16 AM   #63 
  - No - a VP doesn't typically have that much impact  karynnj   May-16-08 11:23 AM   #64 
  - Are you freakin' nuts! Obama will lose a lot of votes if he takes Hillary as VP. . .  InAbLuEsTaTe   May-16-08 11:24 AM   #65 
 

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