dolstein
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Thu Jul-08-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
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Edited on Thu Jul-08-04 03:42 PM by dolstein
Sorry, but your argument that Gore failed to seal the deal among liberal voters doesn't fly. Liberals voted for Gore in overwhelming numbers. Indeed, Gore's support among registered Democrats was even greater than Clinton's level of support in 1996. And turnout was particularly strong among core Democratic constituencies like African Americans and union households. The reason why Gore did so well in Florida in the first place was because the base turned out in such large numbers.
The fact is, no Democrat EVER gets 100% of the Democratic vote in a presidential election, just as no Republican gets 100% of the Republican vote. The 85%+ support Gore received from Democrats is unusually high by historical standards. Nader is surely smart enough to realize this, even if his ego won't allow him to admit it publicly.
While you are correct that Clinton's personal behavior cost Gore support, this was almost entirely among independents. And Gore did about all he could to minimize the electoral damage. Indeed, Clinton's toxic affect among swing voters like blue collar women and suburban moderates was the main reason cited by campaign staff for why Clinton wasn't allowed to campaign for Gore.
If you want to argue that Clinton cost Gore the election as much as Nader, you won't get any argument from me. But the fact is, the Lewinsky scandal happened long before Nader decided to get into the race and make things even more difficult for Gore than they already were. And it certainly doesn't justify Nader's decisino to go around the country lying to voters about how Gore and Bush were essentially the same (a lie Nader continues to repeat to this day). Nor does is justify his decision to spend a disproportionate amount of time campaigning in battle ground states after having told supporters early on that he wouldn't do that. It is quite obvious that Nader structured his campaign with an eye towards inflicting maximum damage on the Gore campaign. Indeed, Nader made no secret of this. So it really is disingenuous of Nader to blame other people for costing Gore the election when Nader himself actively set out to do precisely that.
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| -Talk about chutzpah: Nader blames Gore's loss on conservative Democrats |
dolstein |
Jul-08-04 02:56 PM |
#0 |
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But he is right. His point is that there is no reason to blame the Greens |
GreenPartyVoter |
Jul-08-04 02:58 PM |
#1 |
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And exactly why was that? |
trotsky |
Jul-08-04 03:07 PM |
#4 |
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No, in the case of Florida it had to do with this.. |
GreenPartyVoter |
Jul-08-04 03:12 PM |
#7 |
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Truly, that's pathetic. |
trotsky |
Jul-08-04 03:23 PM |
#9 |
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Well, cross-party voting does happen. A lot of my fellow Greens |
GreenPartyVoter |
Jul-08-04 03:28 PM |
#11 |
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Big kudos to you, GPV. |
trotsky |
Jul-08-04 03:33 PM |
#12 |
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True enough, I would think they would vote for Nader |
GreenPartyVoter |
Jul-08-04 03:36 PM |
#13 |
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Et tu, trotsky? |
no name no slogan |
Jul-08-04 06:05 PM |
#28 |
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"the REAL work starts November 3." I am with you right there! |
GreenPartyVoter |
Jul-08-04 08:02 PM |
#31 |
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Wishful thinking |
dolstein |
Jul-08-04 03:41 PM |
#14 |
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But what is odd about all of this is that people worry about |
GreenPartyVoter |
Jul-08-04 04:10 PM |
#21 |
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Let me point out our fundamental disagreement |
dolstein |
Jul-08-04 06:06 PM |
#29 |
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how voting for a man with as little personal integrity as Nader has |
Cheswick |
Jul-08-04 11:55 PM |
#53 |
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30,000 FL Dems voted for Bush, while only 3,000 FL Dems voted for Nader |
no name no slogan |
Jul-09-04 10:07 AM |
#67 |
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The Gore campaign died from a thousand cuts |
dolstein |
Jul-09-04 12:31 PM |
#71 |
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No, he's not right |
dolstein |
Jul-08-04 03:10 PM |
#6 |
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If Nader hadn't been on the ballot, I would have voted for |
GreenPartyVoter |
Jul-08-04 03:17 PM |
#8 |
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Well, that's you. |
library_max |
Jul-08-04 03:41 PM |
#15 |
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NONE OF THE VOTES WERE COUNTED |
Forkboy |
Jul-08-04 03:53 PM |
#18 |
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Yep. It is. I wish people would get more upset over election theft than |
GreenPartyVoter |
Jul-08-04 04:12 PM |
#22 |
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Honest is the key word. Nader was not honest. |
demwing2 |
Jul-08-04 05:38 PM |
#27 |
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Nader is an ass |
Forkboy |
Jul-08-04 08:58 PM |
#37 |
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I agree. Never forget the theft of the Whitehouse in 2000. |
demwing2 |
Jul-08-04 10:01 PM |
#45 |
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Are you voting for me this time? |
LoZoccolo |
Jul-08-04 04:02 PM |
#20 |
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That's still up in the air |
Forkboy |
Jul-08-04 08:59 PM |
#38 |
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you are one person |
Cheswick |
Jul-08-04 11:57 PM |
#54 |
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irrational argument |
Cheswick |
Jul-08-04 11:51 PM |
#52 |
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Ralph has been all over the map on this issue |
WI_DEM |
Jul-08-04 02:58 PM |
#2 |
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You almost nailed it, dolstein, |
maine_raptor |
Jul-08-04 03:05 PM |
#3 |
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It's not about politics or strategy |
BareKnuckledLiberal |
Jul-08-04 03:07 PM |
#5 |
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If he keeps this up for three more years |
Forkboy |
Jul-08-04 03:25 PM |
#10 |
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He's to blame for Florida. Facts is facts. /nt |
library_max |
Jul-08-04 03:43 PM |
#16 |
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Yes,let's look at some facts,shall we? |
Forkboy |
Jul-08-04 03:52 PM |
#17 |
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Nader got a ton of votes by lying - FACT |
LoZoccolo |
Jul-08-04 04:00 PM |
#19 |
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Yep,those are facts,I agree |
Forkboy |
Jul-08-04 04:33 PM |
#24 |
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if he hadn't done what he did...which you agree is fact |
Cheswick |
Jul-09-04 12:00 AM |
#55 |
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And if all the votes were counted |
Forkboy |
Jul-09-04 12:08 AM |
#58 |
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not quite |
GreenArrow |
Jul-08-04 08:19 PM |
#33 |
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Nader said Gore would have started the Iraq war. |
LoZoccolo |
Jul-08-04 11:35 PM |
#51 |
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we'll never know will we? |
GreenArrow |
Jul-09-04 07:16 AM |
#61 |
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We don't know if Nader'll go crazy and push the button and nuke the world. |
LoZoccolo |
Jul-09-04 11:38 AM |
#69 |
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It is illegal for Democrats to vote Republican? |
dsc |
Jul-08-04 05:21 PM |
#25 |
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My bad.You're right,but that's not how I meant that. |
Forkboy |
Jul-08-04 09:00 PM |
#39 |
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The votes were counted mechanically. |
library_max |
Jul-09-04 10:32 AM |
#68 |
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He's grasping at straws. Trying to dig his way out of condemnation. |
TexasSissy |
Jul-08-04 04:16 PM |
#23 |
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Good point...just demonstrates how egotistic and contradictory he is |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Jul-08-04 05:36 PM |
#26 |
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He's a manipulative fuck who is attractive to psychotic freaks |
Bombtrack |
Jul-08-04 06:16 PM |
#30 |
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wow. |
ulysses |
Jul-08-04 08:08 PM |
#32 |
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give it up, uly |
KG |
Jul-08-04 08:22 PM |
#34 |
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I know. |
ulysses |
Jul-08-04 08:30 PM |
#35 |
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some of us liberal democrats |
Cheswick |
Jul-09-04 12:02 AM |
#56 |
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Isnt that what Kerry said to do? |
tinanator |
Jul-09-04 08:13 AM |
#65 |
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I'm sure you would feel more comfortable with Republicans |
CWebster |
Jul-09-04 07:28 AM |
#62 |
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It would KILL him to join arms with DEMS, just once. |
Dr Fate |
Jul-08-04 08:36 PM |
#36 |
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now thats not true |
tinanator |
Jul-08-04 09:24 PM |
#40 |
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"Pretty much endorsing" Kerry,-AND running against him? |
Dr Fate |
Jul-08-04 09:28 PM |
#42 |
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Well if you feel he is a threat in this election |
tinanator |
Jul-08-04 09:37 PM |
#43 |
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How can he be a threat?- you say Nader "endorses" Kerry. |
Dr Fate |
Jul-08-04 09:44 PM |
#44 |
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Its all up to you |
tinanator |
Jul-08-04 10:12 PM |
#46 |
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It's simple- Nader can stand up with DEMS, OR... |
Dr Fate |
Jul-08-04 10:17 PM |
#48 |
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I think Nader should be free to stand anywhere he wants |
tinanator |
Jul-08-04 10:24 PM |
#49 |
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I dont blame Nader for 2000. I blame myself. |
Dr Fate |
Jul-08-04 10:28 PM |
#50 |
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nice side lateral arabesque |
Cheswick |
Jul-09-04 12:14 AM |
#59 |
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he can't because he can't be king shit in the democratic party |
Cheswick |
Jul-09-04 12:05 AM |
#57 |
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Thankfully, we're all beginning to agree that Nader and his minions |
John_H |
Jul-08-04 09:27 PM |
#41 |
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how deluded must you be to speak for all of us? |
tinanator |
Jul-08-04 10:15 PM |
#47 |
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Dems to Nader: You're either with us or you're against us. |
zoeyfong |
Jul-09-04 02:49 AM |
#60 |
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Damn purist! |
CWebster |
Jul-09-04 07:38 AM |
#63 |
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A "huge void" which attracts 3% of the popular vote. |
library_max |
Jul-09-04 01:20 PM |
#72 |
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DLC apologists still blame the left. |
bandera |
Jul-09-04 08:08 AM |
#64 |
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Nice pre-emptive whitewash. |
library_max |
Jul-09-04 01:22 PM |
#73 |
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Nice DLC whitewash. |
bandera |
Jul-09-04 01:52 PM |
#74 |
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Supposing Gore really did move "to the right," |
library_max |
Jul-12-04 10:54 AM |
#75 |
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That's the tired old argument |
fujiyama |
Jul-09-04 09:50 AM |
#66 |
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Exactamundo! |
JHBowden |
Jul-09-04 11:40 AM |
#70 |