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Reply #78: Yes that makes you sound really 'grown up.' Do you also criticize people for 'demonizing' GWB? [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. Yes that makes you sound really 'grown up.' Do you also criticize people for 'demonizing' GWB?
If I mentioned, say Pol Pot, do you have a knee-jerk reaction? Do all leaders represent "complex sets of decisions and policies that in retrospect deserve both criticism and praise?"

1) A poll is not an argument. It's a set of questions.
2) Defend the foreign policy of Ronald Reagan in... say... Nicaragua. Having lived there, I'd love to hear your balanced, 'rational' opinion. Not interested in defending Iran-Contra, how about our support of right-wing paramilitary in Guatemala?

Sorry to offend your sensibilities with polemics, but you can justify anything via rational argument and you can postpone any moral judgment with claims of 'infinite complexity'.
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  -For Obama supporters who say that Obama is 'antiwar'. readmoreoften  Mar-30-08 06:17 PM   #0 
  - that one sentence by itself is a little out of context  JoeIsOneOfUs   Mar-30-08 06:20 PM   #1 
  - It's not out of context. It's a direct quote.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:25 PM   #11 
  - I didn't say you misquoted. I said the surrounding context was missing. nt  JoeIsOneOfUs   Mar-30-08 06:30 PM   #16 
  - maybe you should read more often...  progdonkey   Mar-30-08 06:36 PM   #26 
  - I read plenty. Thanks for your concern. It's a direct quote from your hero who I take at his word.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:52 PM   #38 
     - now you're misquoting (changing words)  JoeIsOneOfUs   Mar-30-08 06:59 PM   #44 
     - Point out the Barack Obama in this post.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:04 PM   #48 
     - he's not my "hero"...  progdonkey   Mar-30-08 07:25 PM   #57 
        - I'm criticizing the fact that he even called Reagan and Bush 41's policies realistic.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:39 PM   #63 
           - Hear hear. Unfortunately we have lost the historical argument on this.  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:15 PM   #91 
  - You understand that something can be a direct quote and still out of context, right?  stevenleser   Mar-30-08 06:46 PM   #36 
  - Let's give this a try. Fictitious candidate from the future.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:58 PM   #42 
  - LOLOLOL! I'm gonna quote you on that - and out of context even....  BlooInBloo   Mar-30-08 07:23 PM   #55 
  - DUers hate Gravel. They tolerate Kucinich only because he's considered an eccentric oddball  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:19 PM   #92 
  - Gulf War I left us Stronger????????????  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:11 PM   #88 
  - Kick for more votes please.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:20 PM   #2 
  - Has ANY president been anti-war?  anonymous171   Mar-30-08 06:21 PM   #3 
  - Didn't Obama say he was against "stupid wars"? nt  JoeIsOneOfUs   Mar-30-08 06:22 PM   #6 
  - Yeah. I took that to mean that he was against neoconservative foreign policy.  anonymous171   Mar-30-08 06:23 PM   #9 
     - Obviously he's not. He endorses permanent bases in Iraq -- which Kerry campaigned AGAINST  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:23 PM   #94 
  - he wasn't antiwar.  zonmoy   Mar-30-08 06:24 PM   #10 
     - I know that. But he is also considered the greatest Democrat. Ever.  anonymous171   Mar-30-08 06:25 PM   #12 
        - that doesn't mean that he was a saint.  zonmoy   Mar-30-08 06:37 PM   #27 
        - Yeah. I get it.  anonymous171   Mar-30-08 06:59 PM   #46 
           - none that I have ever heard of.  zonmoy   Mar-30-08 09:13 PM   #89 
        - I thought Jefferson was the greatest Democrat ever.  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:25 PM   #95 
  - Other: I cannot vote in this poll or any like it until "in some ways" has been clearly defined.  Swamp Rat   Mar-30-08 06:21 PM   #4 
  - He says 'in some ways' like Reagan but he does not say 'in some ways' like GHWB.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:27 PM   #15 
     - Until Obama defines what he meant by "in some ways," it's all speculation.  Swamp Rat   Mar-30-08 06:32 PM   #22 
        - That is true in the case of Reagan, but what about George Bush 1?  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:36 PM   #25 
           - I see what you mean.  Swamp Rat   Mar-30-08 07:28 PM   #59 
              - Thanks Swamp Rat.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:48 PM   #68 
                 - Estoy de acuerdo.  Swamp Rat   Mar-30-08 07:57 PM   #74 
                    - I lived in Bluefields.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 08:19 PM   #81 
  - Obama is NOT anti-war. I can understand why some of his supporters think he is, but he's not.  Skip Intro   Mar-30-08 06:22 PM   #5 
  - Obama specifically said he's not against all wars, just stupid wars  maximusveritas   Mar-30-08 06:23 PM   #7 
  - So Iraq I, Panama, Faukland Islands were not 'stupid wars'?  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:32 PM   #21 
     - Iraq I was not a stupid war. Al Gore, among others, supported it.  nsd   Mar-30-08 06:39 PM   #29 
        - Iraq I was a stupid war, but it was a well handled stupid war. Panama was for personal bush family  John Q. Citizen   Mar-30-08 06:58 PM   #41 
           - Agreed. These stupid wars were all handled much better than Iraq II.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:24 PM   #56 
  - It's the height of foolishness, egotism and partisanship  nomad1776   Mar-30-08 06:23 PM   #8 
  - It shames you to see "Republicans" act like a horses ass when Obama mentions a Republican?  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:30 PM   #17 
     - Ahh and there is one of the fools I am referring to  nomad1776   Mar-30-08 06:46 PM   #34 
        - And that's called an ad hominem attack. It's what people use when they have no argument.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:08 PM   #50 
  - Are you voting for McKinney?  sandnsea   Mar-30-08 06:26 PM   #13 
  - Other, that was not how Obama meant this  stevenleser   Mar-30-08 06:27 PM   #14 
  - .  baldguy   Mar-30-08 06:30 PM   #18 
  - LOL! nt  JoeIsOneOfUs   Mar-30-08 06:32 PM   #20 
  - No. Every time someone asks an Obama thug a question it's not a strawman you moron.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 06:34 PM   #23 
     - Ascribing a position to Obama which he does not hold  baldguy   Mar-30-08 06:59 PM   #45 
        - Really. Then refute it instead of calling me names. That's what I asked you to do.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:20 PM   #53 
           - Hillary Clinton eats puppies & kittens.  baldguy   Mar-30-08 07:22 PM   #54 
              - Exactly what I thought.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:26 PM   #58 
                 - At least my argument isn't a straw man.  baldguy   Mar-30-08 07:46 PM   #66 
                    - I didn't know there was a hierarchy of rhetorical sleaze.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:52 PM   #70 
                       - Obama is not "anti-war".  baldguy   Mar-30-08 08:52 PM   #84 
  - I chose...  Mooney   Mar-30-08 06:31 PM   #19 
  - Limited engagement...... not occupation  Johnny__Motown   Mar-30-08 06:36 PM   #24 
  - I trust him much more with war decisions than I do McCain and Clinton  Truth Hurts A Lot   Mar-30-08 06:38 PM   #28 
  - None of the above. I trust Obama to keep us out of war. n/t  invictus   Mar-30-08 06:42 PM   #30 
  - You may disagree with them, but Bush 41 and Reagan didn't get us into any quagmires.  TheWraith   Mar-30-08 06:44 PM   #31 
  - hey - no context allowed - (see above)  JoeIsOneOfUs   Mar-30-08 06:56 PM   #40 
  - Fair enough. He'll only pick fights we can win. Acceptable reading of his position.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:02 PM   #47 
  - They got us into the MidEast quagmire by placing troops in SA and funding Al Qaeda in Afghanisrtan  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:31 PM   #96 
  - The anti war acndidate was DK of who is left Barack is th next best thing.  cooolandrew   Mar-30-08 06:44 PM   #32 
  - The anti war cnadidate was DK of who is left Barack is the next best thing.  cooolandrew   Mar-30-08 06:44 PM   #33 
  - I feel confident that Obama will not take the country into war  Skidmore   Mar-30-08 06:46 PM   #35 
  - BO is a political chameleon, he'll "change" his position to whatever seems appropriate at the moment  jody   Mar-30-08 06:52 PM   #37 
  - Only to people who refuse to READ the full content  JayFredMuggs   Mar-30-08 06:56 PM   #39 
     - As someone who just joined DU I think you should watch who you call a Republican.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:29 PM   #60 
  - I won't vote for someone who will not fight in some circumstances  dmordue   Mar-30-08 06:58 PM   #43 
  - Then Obama's your candidate.  baldguy   Mar-30-08 07:07 PM   #49 
  - everyone but perhaps kucinich fits  dmordue   Mar-30-08 07:17 PM   #52 
  - Neither will I. But were Bush 41 and Reagan's circumstances acceptable is the question.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:11 PM   #51 
     - I read an article about the fusion of Moralists and Militarists that created our current mess.  anonymous171   Mar-30-08 07:30 PM   #61 
        - Our mess is quite a mess indeed.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:41 PM   #64 
           - No problem.  anonymous171   Mar-30-08 07:50 PM   #69 
           - That's hitting the nail on the head. /nt  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:54 PM   #71 
           - Sad indeed  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:41 PM   #97 
  - Crafty poll  Orwellian_Ghost   Mar-30-08 07:33 PM   #62 
  - I read that speech. It's part of what frightens me.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:43 PM   #65 
     - The evil of two lessers = "You won't get a better deal from my opponent, trust me."  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:46 PM   #98 
  - None of the 3 candidates have the courage to be anti-war.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Mar-30-08 07:48 PM   #67 
  - Well, I think that there are just struggles but then again I'm not a pacifist.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 07:56 PM   #73 
     - I agree with the EZLN's struggle.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Mar-30-08 08:17 PM   #80 
        - I don't think that they would've gotten anywhere without pushing into the cities of Chiapas.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 08:29 PM   #82 
  - You forgot "People who don't demonize GHWB, Reagan, and JFK are evil".  boppers   Mar-30-08 07:55 PM   #72 
  - Yes that makes you sound really 'grown up.' Do you also criticize people for 'demonizing' GWB?  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 08:08 PM   #78 
     - Oh, I get your style of invective.  boppers   Mar-30-08 09:23 PM   #93 
        - Wow... OK  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:52 PM   #100 
           - Trying to reduce a few hundred thousand incidents into a few paragraphs is never easy.  boppers   Mar-30-08 10:57 PM   #105 
  - JFK tried to ratchet down Vietnam, GHWB pulled out of Iraq, Reagan ended the cold war.  dailykoff   Mar-30-08 08:00 PM   #75 
  - At last, a "realistic" defense of Obama's remarks  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:55 PM   #101 
  - Response:  Political Heretic   Mar-30-08 08:03 PM   #76 
  - Here' s how I read it...  stillcool47   Mar-30-08 08:08 PM   #77 
  - I agree with some of his statements, but others give me pause.  readmoreoften   Mar-30-08 08:14 PM   #79 
     - I believe all wars in the middle-east ..  stillcool47   Mar-30-08 09:05 PM   #86 
        - And that is realist. By siding with Reagan/Bush on realism, hes saying he doesnt mind resource wars  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:50 PM   #99 
           - I don't know that there has ..  stillcool47   Mar-30-08 10:50 PM   #104 
  - hes anti dumb war. not war in general. - nt  goletian   Mar-30-08 08:44 PM   #83 
  - This poll breakdown saddens me. DU is "showing their ass" as my grandma would say  Leopolds Ghost   Mar-30-08 09:05 PM   #85 
  - Other:  LWolf   Mar-30-08 09:10 PM   #87 
  - Here's how Tom Hayden, an Obama supporter, puts it:  dailykoff   Mar-30-08 09:13 PM   #90 
  - at least old tom has`t lost his reasoning  madrchsod   Mar-30-08 10:09 PM   #102 
  - Obama's not antiwar. He's anti-stupid-war.  Occam Bandage   Mar-30-08 10:12 PM   #103 
 

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