Reply #177: Grover Cleveland [View All]

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theredpen (1000+ posts)

Thu Mar-13-08 12:40 AM
Response to Original message

177. Grover Cleveland

Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 12:42 AM by theredpen

Grover Cleveland had less than a year as Mayor of Buffalo and two years as Governor of New York.

He was a straight-talking populist who was unwilling to kowtow to the entrenched and corrupt elements of the Democratic status quo. He won an electoral landslide because the country was eager for reform.

Cleveland ran against a Republican who had 5 terms in Congress — three as Speaker of the House, four years in the Senate and a stint as Secretary of State. He was an aggressive politician and a formidable debater. Nevertheless, he lost to the plain-speaking populist newcomer.

I suppose that Cleveland isn't "modern" enough to meet your arbitrary criteria, but there's a story here — a story that could very well repeat this year.

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Name one.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:05 PM	#0
Bill Clinton. nt	thecatburgler	Mar-12-08 08:07 PM	#1
Try again.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:13 PM	#10
No need to try again, because, in relative terms, it's about equal.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 08:19 PM	#21
You've got to be kidding. At least I hope so.	usrbs	Mar-13-08 07:44 AM	#185
I can name one that has less that is running against him......	ThatBozGuy	Mar-13-08 07:57 AM	#191
I count all experience, not just elective	usrbs	Mar-13-08 08:28 AM	#192
Tiny state. Tiny budget. Went from 49th to 47th in education.	thevoiceofreason	Mar-12-08 09:11 PM	#113
Arkansas?	RazBerryBeret	Mar-12-08 09:20 PM	#130
How about George Bush? He's not only lacking in experience,	roguevalley	Mar-12-08 09:23 PM	#138
Gov of Arkansas is a weeee bit more experience	wlucinda	Mar-12-08 08:13 PM	#11
On the domestic front, sure, not internationally, however.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 08:19 PM	#22
Obama's international cred is heading a committee with no meetings.	wlucinda	Mar-12-08 08:21 PM	#26
And what was Bill's in 1992?	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 08:22 PM	#27
He didnt have any. But he'd run a state. Big difference.	wlucinda	Mar-12-08 08:24 PM	#31
But yet Hillary's primary focus for her "experience" argument is in international relations	Occam Bandage	Mar-12-08 08:25 PM	#36
No actuallly it isn't. She talking about her entire adult lifetime spent in politics.	wlucinda	Mar-12-08 08:44 PM	#62
Her 3AM ad would beg to differ. She talks about her "lifetime of change," but when she's	Occam Bandage	Mar-12-08 08:48 PM	#68
are you saying something nice about the Big Dawg?	sueragingroz	Mar-12-08 08:49 PM	#71
He was generally a good President.	Occam Bandage	Mar-12-08 08:50 PM	#74
She's making the case why SHE is the better candidate. She's not	wlucinda	Mar-12-08 08:52 PM	#79
Er, yes. She isn't comparing Obama's to Bill's. She's saying that Obama is	Occam Bandage	Mar-12-08 08:57 PM	#89
I agree, there is a big difference, but it doesn't make him more experienced.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 08:26 PM	#38
Of course being Governor made Clinton more experienced than Obama is	wlucinda	Mar-12-08 08:39 PM	#56
You're right, I think you are flat wrong.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 08:51 PM	#77
I sort of figured that out already.	wlucinda	Mar-12-08 08:53 PM	#82
Agree. Executive experience is essential	karmicglee	Mar-12-08 09:08 PM	#109
International affairs are "slightly" more important post-9/11 than the year after the USSR dissolved	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:09 PM	#112
Obama has no political experience internationally n/t	BooScout	Mar-12-08 08:56 PM	#87
Longest serving governor in the country at the time, too.	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:20 PM	#23
Yup. Compared with the state senate, which is	wlucinda	Mar-12-08 08:22 PM	#29
Arkansas vs Illinois	Goblinmonger	Mar-12-08 11:51 PM	#173
Obama Supporters Are ALL About Smack, And Don't Give a BLEEP About Truth, Decency or Reason!!!!	anonymeme	Mar-12-08 08:58 PM	#92
Wow, what are you? A masochist?	cbayer	Mar-12-08 09:12 PM	#115
BINGO!	Exilednight	Mar-12-08 10:16 PM	#156
Jimmy Carter	skooooo	Mar-12-08 08:07 PM	#2
Wrong.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:17 PM	#19
It appears you're wrong.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 08:21 PM	#25
you are kidding right?	sueragingroz	Mar-12-08 08:51 PM	#75
Are you?	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 08:52 PM	#78
How many senators have made it to the big office?	sueragingroz	Mar-12-08 09:09 PM	#111
I can compare and I just did compare.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 09:13 PM	#117
Kerry was a decorated officer in a war, and lead a movement.	usrbs	Mar-13-08 07:53 AM	#189
This will be the first time that a sitting US Senator makes it to the Oval Office since JFK.	Exilednight	Mar-12-08 10:18 PM	#158
A State like Georgia?	BooScout	Mar-12-08 09:01 PM	#95
Georgia was a far different state than it is today.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 09:06 PM	#106
You're comparing voting present part-time to running a big state like Georgia?	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:11 PM	#114
Georgia in the 1970's was not that big. Atlanta was not the city it is today.	Exilednight	Mar-12-08 10:21 PM	#161
*	Skidmore	Mar-12-08 08:08 PM	#3
Dukakis	SoonerPride	Mar-12-08 08:09 PM	#4
Nope.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:22 PM	#28
Abraham Lincoln	NJSecularist	Mar-12-08 08:09 PM	#5
He wasn't a Democrat.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:23 PM	#30
Party lines from close to 200 years ago are irrelevant	NJSecularist	Mar-12-08 08:25 PM	#35
In the OP it said modern times.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:50 PM	#73
Defined as? How about William Jennings Bryan? He was nominated repeatedly, and yet had	Occam Bandage	Mar-12-08 08:51 PM	#76
That's a very good one. Congrats! (I've compared Obama to Bryant may times, but forgot him)	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:54 PM	#84
And Byran's masterful oratory, "inspiring" words netted him an 0-3 record as a prez candidate	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:12 PM	#116
Modern times?	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 09:05 PM	#104
Plus Lincoln's lack of experience made him an ineffective President.	SOS	Mar-12-08 10:37 PM	#167
Here's Honest Abe's Resume...	noel711	Mar-12-08 09:28 PM	#141
Watcha gettin' at?	tekisui	Mar-12-08 08:10 PM	#6
Gettin at that Obama's got more experience than Clinton	SoonerPride	Mar-12-08 08:11 PM	#8
Nope.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:24 PM	#33
Show me all the elected experience Clinton has	SoonerPride	Mar-12-08 09:05 PM	#103
Hillary Clinton was elected to the U.S. Senate in 2000, re-elected in 2006.	Elrond Hubbard	Mar-12-08 08:10 PM	#7
Jeee that was too easy	Armstead	Mar-12-08 08:30 PM	#47
My next door neighbor has more "legislative experience" than either of them	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:57 PM	#88
It's still legislative experience. Sure, it ain't the US Senate...but still...	Elrond Hubbard	Mar-12-08 09:13 PM	#119
Hey, guys. She clearly asked for ONE person. There you go again, spinning like crazy listing	EmilyAnne	Mar-12-08 08:11 PM	#9
When will they learn that it is over?	SoonerPride	Mar-12-08 08:14 PM	#12
BAAAHAAAAAA.....LOL	NDambi	Mar-12-08 08:14 PM	#14
Obama is lacking in experience as compared to the others.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:26 PM	#37
OMG..........	Hepburn	Mar-12-08 08:32 PM	#50
Damn, if he only had two more years he'd have 14 years like JFK nt	Sir Jeffrey	Mar-12-08 08:14 PM	#13
Campaigning Since 2003, For Senate And POTUS	Dinger	Mar-12-08 08:14 PM	#15
Can't argue with that	goodgd_yall	Mar-12-08 08:17 PM	#18
John F. Kennedy.	yardwork	Mar-12-08 08:14 PM	#16
That's absurd.	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:26 PM	#39
Maybe so. I should have stuck with "Hillary has no more experience than Obama."	yardwork	Mar-12-08 08:40 PM	#57
Suggest you read the OP again.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:27 PM	#40
Oh, please!	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 09:00 PM	#93
That sounds very similar to Senator Obama's record.	yardwork	Mar-13-08 11:22 AM	#194
JFK had as much experience as Nixon. This is a key Obamite myth	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:14 PM	#120
My mom says he is - and she's a 73 year old white woman.	yardwork	Mar-13-08 11:22 AM	#195
I can't name you one, but I can name you eight who had more and lost the election	Magic Rat	Mar-12-08 08:16 PM	#17
you lose.	rodeodance	Mar-12-08 08:43 PM	#59
Woodrow Wilson.	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 08:17 PM	#20
HELLO... ????	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 08:30 PM	#45
Any large state governor is more experienced for the Presidency	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:43 PM	#60
The OP asked people to "name one" and I named "one".	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 08:52 PM	#80
I'm giving you grudging props. Wilson and Bryant are both good answers.	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:58 PM	#91
Understood	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 09:06 PM	#105
Read the book on the 1912 election. He went into the convention with LESS	dorktv	Mar-13-08 12:54 AM	#178
The OP said a modern president. Wilson was elected 96 years ago	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:16 PM	#125
What is defined as "modern"?	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 09:20 PM	#133
And he did a lot of good for the nation...	skater314159	Mar-12-08 09:08 PM	#108
Let's hope so since that very war had a very segregated army	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 09:27 PM	#140
Yep, it's about integrity and doing what is right...	skater314159	Mar-12-08 10:04 PM	#152
I thought Truman desegregated the army, or are you referring to something else (or am I wrong?)	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 10:23 PM	#163
Nope. Truman and the military hemmed and hawed about it for years.	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 10:57 PM	#168
That's right... Charlie Rangel was in a colored unit in Korea, wasn't he?	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-13-08 12:56 AM	#179
Um...Truman deseged the armed forces.	dorktv	Mar-13-08 01:00 AM	#180
Obama really needs a time machine	Paint It Black	Mar-13-08 07:33 AM	#182
Yep.	skater314159	Mar-12-08 09:04 PM	#100
Woodrow Wilson. 1912...he was a key state gov. and president of Princeton Univ.	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:15 PM	#124
Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Eisenhower	Paint It Black	Mar-12-08 08:21 PM	#24
LOL. You are just being weird	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:31 PM	#48
And Woodrow Wilson? Oh, and by the way,	Occam Bandage	Mar-12-08 08:34 PM	#52
Of course it is. And he's 45 and has led a fairly unexceptional life.	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:38 PM	#55
"a fairly unexceptional life?" Your bias is showing. Anyway, what about Wilson?	Occam Bandage	Mar-12-08 08:45 PM	#64
Large state governor, albeit not for long. And a distinguished academic career	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:53 PM	#81
Wilson was a real constitutional and governmental scholar- not a part time prof	depakid	Mar-12-08 08:55 PM	#85
this is interesting:	FLDem5	Mar-12-08 08:35 PM	#54
Eisenhower was a Republican.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:54 PM	#83
Actually, Eisenhower was courted by Democrats first in 1948 n/t	TexasBushwhacker	Mar-12-08 10:17 PM	#157
Since Hillary is making "experience" about national security, I would say Bill Clinton.	Occam Bandage	Mar-12-08 08:24 PM	#32
George Bush had PLENTY of experience - did you vote for him in '88?	Paint It Black	Mar-12-08 08:25 PM	#34
Suggest you read the OP again.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:28 PM	#42
WOODROW WILSON	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 08:32 PM	#51
In 1912 and Wilson's qualifications have been addressed upthread	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:20 PM	#131
That is nonsensical propaganda	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 09:30 PM	#142
Yes, and compare that to Woodrow Wilson...	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:35 PM	#145
Obama was President of the Harvard Law Review	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 09:56 PM	#150
Yes, and how does that qualify you to be president?	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:59 PM	#151
Wilson ran a "big state"? When since was New Jersey a "big state"?	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 10:12 PM	#153
Yes, how did that compare to the other states?	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 11:16 PM	#170
Wow... Your arguments have now jumped the shark.	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 11:50 PM	#172
I read the OP, it doesn't mean JACK SHIT	Paint It Black	Mar-13-08 07:37 AM	#183
So did Dukakis	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:19 PM	#129
none. Now please respond with the same courtesy on this question	grantcart	Mar-12-08 08:27 PM	#41
Has nothing to do with the OP.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 09:02 PM	#96
Your point goes down in flames when you realize experience doesn't mean much.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 08:28 PM	#43
this is test. you lose	rodeodance	Mar-12-08 08:44 PM	#61
George W. Bush is a perfect example of the need for experience...	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:20 PM	#132
sheeit, that is so wrong. he has had 7 years experience as PRES and still fuckin up	seabeyond	Mar-13-08 12:14 AM	#175
George W. Bush HAD experience - governor of Texas for 5 years	Paint It Black	Mar-13-08 07:49 AM	#187
why the qualifiers "in modern times" and "Democratic" nomination?	FLDem5	Mar-12-08 08:29 PM	#44
No, but we produce nominees like clock-work.	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:45 PM	#65
Gee, this thread did not work out to well did it Tennessee Gal	krawhitham	Mar-12-08 08:30 PM	#46
Zero, unless you consider the OP a typing test.	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 08:34 PM	#53
you lose	rodeodance	Mar-12-08 08:45 PM	#63
None that passed the test.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:57 PM	#90
I guess you got one of my friends on ignore	HawkeyeX	Mar-12-08 09:23 PM	#136
Kinda hard to pass a test when you rig the rules in your favor	Paint It Black	Mar-13-08 07:51 AM	#188
McCain's not a Democrat but he's got a shitload of experience.	thecatburgler	Mar-12-08 08:31 PM	#49
None.	Rockholm	Mar-12-08 08:40 PM	#58
WOODROW WILSON	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 08:47 PM	#67
See my #85 post above	depakid	Mar-12-08 09:00 PM	#94
What the hell are you talking about?	BumRushDaShow	Mar-12-08 09:13 PM	#118
Just goes to show how shallow and juvenile some people are	depakid	Mar-12-08 11:46 PM	#171
Goal post changes...	BumRushDaShow	Mar-13-08 12:12 AM	#174
Oh. looky - someone can read a wiki! And make a sports metaphor	depakid	Mar-13-08 01:20 AM	#181
still waiting for your answer to reply # 41 or do you lack the courage to do so?	grantcart	Mar-12-08 08:46 PM	#66
You won't get an answer.	Bright Eyes	Mar-12-08 08:49 PM	#72
You lose. I answered.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 09:03 PM	#97
Would you like a medal?	Bright Eyes	Mar-12-08 09:05 PM	#102
Lincoln.	Bright Eyes	Mar-12-08 08:48 PM	#69
Lincoln was a Republican. Not modern times.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 08:56 PM	#86
delete.	Bright Eyes	Mar-12-08 09:03 PM	#99
Obama has been in politics for 12 years.	Bright Eyes	Mar-12-08 09:14 PM	#121
Hillary	not_too_L8	Mar-12-08 08:49 PM	#70
Hillary Clinton	lynyrd_skynyrd	Mar-12-08 09:03 PM	#98
Hillary has not won the nomination. Read the OP again.	Tennessee Gal	Mar-12-08 09:04 PM	#101
Obama bests Clinton in experience, unless you count brunches eaten in DC	SoonerPride	Mar-12-08 09:07 PM	#107
None and definitely no Democratic president ever had anywhere near as little experience	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:08 PM	#110
What about Hillary Clinton herself? What is this vaunted experience she claims to have?	Elrond Hubbard	Mar-12-08 09:14 PM	#122
7 years in the senate alone is enough historically	jackson_dem	Mar-12-08 09:24 PM	#139
Hillary Clinton. n/t	Mooney	Mar-12-08 09:15 PM	#123
go watch KO, he named lots of them and explained Nixon had lots of experience	Johnny__Motown	Mar-12-08 09:16 PM	#126
Exactly.	Bright Eyes	Mar-12-08 09:18 PM	#128
it's in the details	bcoylepa	Mar-12-08 09:17 PM	#127
Hillary Clinton, if you have your way	dmesg	Mar-12-08 09:21 PM	#134
So? This just proves how exceptional Obama is.	ContinentalOp	Mar-12-08 09:21 PM	#135
People forget Kerry was the most experienced candidate the last time around.	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 09:33 PM	#144
Great post	ContinentalOp	Mar-12-08 10:20 PM	#160
D'oh, I totally did not mean that pun!	Drunken Irishman	Mar-12-08 10:22 PM	#162
All the experience in the world doesn't mean squat if you don't have courage	tabasco	Mar-12-08 09:23 PM	#137
Franklin D. Roosevelt	canadian_is_cold	Mar-12-08 09:31 PM	#143
7 years	canadian_is_cold	Mar-12-08 09:37 PM	#147
And I believe he was secretary of the navy in WWI	Kurt_and_Hunter	Mar-12-08 10:26 PM	#164
That was an appointed position	canadian_is_cold	Mar-14-08 12:15 AM	#196
okay, so your opinion is that O isn't qualified to be POTUS, i take it.	knixphan	Mar-12-08 09:36 PM	#146
There is no job training to be President of the United States	dave29	Mar-12-08 09:45 PM	#148
Adlai Stevenson	canadian_is_cold	Mar-12-08 09:45 PM	#149
Dick Cheney has lots of experience - vote for him.	against all enemies	Mar-12-08 10:13 PM	#154
I'd rather have brains than experience--and that seems to be the choice.	DuaneBidoux	Mar-12-08 10:13 PM	#155
How about	DadOf2LittleAngels	Mar-12-08 10:20 PM	#159
A barely three year Senator for President is freaking bizarre	DemGa	Mar-12-08 10:27 PM	#165
Hillary Clinton: 1 term in the senate, 2 if you count the one she's serving now.	anonymous171	Mar-12-08 10:29 PM	#166
Jimmy Carter	McCamy Taylor	Mar-12-08 10:57 PM	#169
Woodrow Wilson, FDR, JFK, Jimmy Carter......	scheming daemons	Mar-13-08 12:16 AM	#176
Grover Cleveland	theredpen	Mar-13-08 12:40 AM	#177
Hillary Clinton has less experience in elected office than him	JVS	Mar-13-08 07:38 AM	#184
I'm not sure what you mean about modern times, or why you put	cali	Mar-13-08 07:49 AM	#186
I can name one that has less that is running against him......	ThatBozGuy	Mar-13-08 07:55 AM	#190
Andrew Jackson and others - here's a list	Fighting Irish	Mar-13-08 10:12 AM	#193

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