You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #16: Proper primaries are better for Obama in the long run [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread		 This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Proper primaries are better for Obama in the long run
I reject any use of the vote totals from the banned primaries. That's the rules.

And I don't like penalties because that flies in the face of democracy... a person in Michigan should count as a person, not half a person. This mess is not the voters fault, after all.

(One penalty is self-enforcing: that FL and MI spent millions and millions of dollars running bogus primaries that count for nothing.)

But Dean says the DNC is fine with the states holding legitimate contests now, if both candidates agree. And both candidates should favor it.

Clinton should favor it because she needs the help.

Obama should favor it because it is essential that the legitimacy of his eventual nomination be universally accepted.

And another upside of holding legit primaries is that Obama could introduce himself to the people of FL and MI.

MI is a must-have state and FL would clinch the election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -What some folks are missing about Florida and Michigan... Kurt_and_Hunter  Mar-12-08 05:23 PM   #0 
  - Well guess what, Florida, at this point is pretty much stuck  MadHound   Mar-12-08 05:25 PM   #1 
  - Does Hillary have any actual influence over the decisions concerning  Arkansas Granny   Mar-12-08 05:28 PM   #6 
  - Yeah I've seen that too, even in the media  spoony   Mar-12-08 05:31 PM   #8 
  - No, actually both candidates have been consulted on possible solutions to this campaign  MadHound   Mar-12-08 05:33 PM   #9 
  - I had not heard this. Do you have a link?  Arkansas Granny   Mar-12-08 05:42 PM   #14 
     - No, I don't, sorry.  MadHound   Mar-12-08 05:47 PM   #17 
  - Of course she does!  ALiberalSailor   Mar-12-08 06:46 PM   #56 
  - It is the DLC that has the influence.  truedelphi   Mar-13-08 03:12 PM   #111 
  - I suggest removing half of the delegates. same as the repugs did. That would make the impact minimal  Johnny__Motown   Mar-12-08 06:11 PM   #37 
  - What's half of zero?  RUMMYisFROSTED   Mar-13-08 11:28 AM   #102 
  - Get your damn facts straight, its Obama that is rejecting a solution  Seeker30   Mar-12-08 06:34 PM   #47 
     - See post #79 for update  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 09:13 PM   #80 
     - .  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 09:59 PM   #82 
     - actually....  lmbradford   Mar-13-08 12:17 AM   #92 
  - Yeah, that's why the states have different numbers of delegates, and electoral votes--  wienerdoggie   Mar-12-08 05:26 PM   #2 
  - There are a number of cities in both Michigan and Florida that are bigger than Wyoming  LisaM   Mar-12-08 05:26 PM   #3 
  - That's an excellent summary of the problem  spoony   Mar-12-08 05:34 PM   #11 
  - Well, and as it turns out, Michigan's problems are now everyone's  LisaM   Mar-12-08 05:45 PM   #15 
  - I don't know if you live in Michigan, but its miserable here.  last1standing   Mar-12-08 05:51 PM   #21 
     - Well, I'm from there, and most of my family is there.  LisaM   Mar-12-08 06:45 PM   # 
  - Spoony, that's just not true.  last1standing   Mar-12-08 05:49 PM   #18 
     - Not everything is about friggin' Hillary or friggin' Obama  spoony   Mar-12-08 06:04 PM   #31 
        - And as much as I like Levin, he was wrong on this.  last1standing   Mar-12-08 06:21 PM   #41 
           - lol  Two Americas   Mar-13-08 01:05 AM   #97 
  - Unilaterally voting to ignore the national party...  anigbrowl   Mar-12-08 05:51 PM   #20 
  - Interesting  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 05:26 PM   #4 
  - The Party can't give the delegates from FL and MI to Hillary.  yardwork   Mar-12-08 05:26 PM   #5 
  - Upon what...  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 05:29 PM   #7 
  - How does holding a new primary disenfranchise anyone?  anigbrowl   Mar-12-08 05:53 PM   #22 
  - I've already voted.  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 06:02 PM   #27 
     - bullshit.  Labors of Hercules   Mar-12-08 06:52 PM   #58 
     - You're spinning.  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 07:23 PM   #62 
        - in an unfair election, the only thing you can do is redo the election.  Labors of Hercules   Mar-14-08 10:31 AM   #120 
     - ...in an illegitimate election. Try again.  Zhade   Mar-13-08 02:51 PM   #107 
  - that isn't even close to what yardwork argued. Quit throwing up strawmen.  DeadElephant_ORG   Mar-12-08 05:56 PM   #23 
  - I quoted him directly, FFS!!  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 06:07 PM   #33 
     - "legally and in good faith?" No campaigning was permitted for God's sake.  DeadElephant_ORG   Mar-12-08 06:21 PM   #40 
     - My candidate came in third...with 14% of the vote  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 06:41 PM   #53 
     - Then there's the fact that Clinton actually DID campaign in FL, but called it a "fund raiser".  Zhade   Mar-13-08 02:53 PM   #108 
     - Funny you should mention good Ol' Mitch  truedelphi   Mar-13-08 03:23 PM   #112 
     - Who is this "him" of whom you speak?  yardwork   Mar-12-08 07:01 PM   #60 
        - A thousand apologies.  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 07:25 PM   #63 
           - That's a line from Toy Story. Sorry. My profile says I'm female, etc.  yardwork   Mar-12-08 07:49 PM   #66 
              - I understand.  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 07:52 PM   #68 
                 - LOL! Absolutely - that's our DU!  yardwork   Mar-12-08 07:55 PM   #70 
  - There's plenty of evidence. Obama's supporters are more likely to be  yardwork   Mar-12-08 06:58 PM   #59 
     - So your "evidence" is your assumptions...  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 07:22 PM   #61 
        - I'm fine with the mail-in or some sort of do-over in FL.  yardwork   Mar-12-08 07:51 PM   #67 
           - Well, how about this?  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 08:34 PM   #76 
              - Seems fine to me. Now that we agree, who do we tell?  yardwork   Mar-12-08 10:13 PM   #85 
              - Well, I'm sure the DNC reads this board...  Birthmark   Mar-13-08 06:08 AM   #99 
                 - Howard, you've got my ok too - run with it, baby!  yardwork   Mar-13-08 10:20 AM   #100 
                 - I think you mean "idear"  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 02:45 PM   #106 
              - That's intriguing... though probably unworkable.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 11:06 PM   #86 
              - It's simple enough.  Birthmark   Mar-13-08 06:07 AM   #98 
                 - I agree that a penalty is important, but I cannot see my way to  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 12:41 PM   #104 
              - How about you add 20% to Obama that he picks up campaigning  foxer   Mar-13-08 12:23 AM   #95 
  - The illegal primaries will not count.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 05:34 PM   #10 
  - The primary was not "illegal."  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 07:28 PM   #64 
  - Sounds good to me.  Cant trust em   Mar-12-08 05:36 PM   #12 
  - Better to just say it wasn't a valid contest  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 04:08 PM   #116 
  - This Obama supporter agrees with you.......  FlyingSquirrel   Mar-12-08 05:38 PM   #13 
  - Proper primaries are better for Obama in the long run  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 05:45 PM   #16 
  - not the voters fault ?  WilyWondr   Mar-12-08 06:39 PM   #52 
     - By all means, throw the bums out. But the point of the OP remains.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 06:50 PM   #57 
        - Actually if proper primaries are NOT held he'll lose 56 delegates  FlyingSquirrel   Mar-12-08 10:02 PM   #83 
           - John Edwards has a strong claim to some of those uncommitted votes  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 11:31 AM   #103 
  - I agree with you on the situation with Michigan too  goodgd_yall   Mar-12-08 06:21 PM   #42 
  - They should strip ALL the super delegates in FL and MI  TheDoorbellRang   Mar-12-08 06:26 PM   #44 
  - The DNC does have a right to make it's own rules  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 07:37 PM   #65 
  - The illegitimate primary did not count.  kokono   Mar-12-08 05:50 PM   #19 
  - If she is blocking the road it makes no sense.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 05:59 PM   #26 
  - She's open to a revote.  goodgd_yall   Mar-12-08 06:37 PM   #49 
  - How is she blocking the road?  goodgd_yall   Mar-12-08 06:30 PM   #45 
     - it's too easy for old ladies to vote by mail  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 06:34 PM   #46 
     - God, no!  goodgd_yall   Mar-12-08 06:38 PM   #51 
        - !  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-14-08 01:12 PM   #121 
     - Ok, I thought it was only Hillary, everyone needs to agree on a solution  kokono   Mar-12-08 09:04 PM   #78 
     - Agreed.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 09:34 PM   #81 
     - I'll say it again....  lmbradford   Mar-13-08 12:23 AM   #94 
        - That law does not apply to something run by a political party  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 11:26 AM   #101 
  - Except she was the only one on the ballot in MI, so no one in MI could vote for any other Dem  rosebud57   Mar-12-08 05:59 PM   #24 
  - Of course the MI and FL "results" are meaningless.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 06:02 PM   #28 
  - My point is the fact Hillary wants to count MI shows she doesn't care about fair or voters  rosebud57   Mar-12-08 06:03 PM   #30 
     - Yes, but it's not about her.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 06:10 PM   #36 
  - Well, no, she wasn't, since I  spoony   Mar-12-08 06:07 PM   #32 
     - Yeah, I feel bad for Kucinich every time someone says she ran "unopposed"  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 06:23 PM   #43 
        - .  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 05:37 PM   #117 
  - Well the fact is 48 states could play by the rules  high density   Mar-12-08 05:59 PM   #25 
  - Real people vote in primaries, not states.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 06:03 PM   #29 
     - And what you have said means... absolutely nothing?  high density   Mar-12-08 06:35 PM   #48 
        - "The states only have themselves to blame."  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 06:38 PM   #50 
           - Umm, most states I know are made up of people  high density   Mar-12-08 06:45 PM   #54 
              - It seems by your reasoning that all the millions of people in those states willingly broke the rules  PseudoIntellect   Mar-12-08 10:04 PM   #84 
                 - Collective punishment. It worked so well in Iraq, let's try it in Michigan  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 11:50 PM   #87 
  - They're called "RULES" for a reason - they need to be followed.  InAbLuEsTaTe   Mar-12-08 06:08 PM   #34 
  - There is no rule against FL and MI holding proper primaries.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 06:13 PM   #38 
  - I'm so sick of this rigid "It's the rules" bs  goodgd_yall   Mar-12-08 06:14 PM   #39 
  - So...  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 07:57 PM   #71 
     - "Ach! Ah hate these rrrules!"  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 08:02 PM   #72 
        - "Willie hears ya. Willie don't care."  Birthmark   Mar-12-08 08:32 PM   #75 
  - I live in Michigan and I disagree,  Johnny__Motown   Mar-12-08 06:10 PM   #35 
  - One thing that keeps coming up in threads like this one...  hayu_lol   Mar-12-08 06:46 PM   #55 
     - I thought that they took their names off the ballot because the Party requested it?  yardwork   Mar-12-08 07:55 PM   #69 
  - Florida and Michigan broke the rules.  Blondiegrrl   Mar-12-08 08:16 PM   #73 
  - waaaaah! who cares if we lose the GE? just as long as O's the nominee.. nt  VotesForWomen   Mar-13-08 12:16 AM   #91 
  - Tell that to Howard Dean...he can't , or won't , understand that.  DemVet   Mar-12-08 08:23 PM   #74 
  - ARGH  exsoccermom   Mar-12-08 08:53 PM   #77 
     - Thanks for the insight...I didn't know the facts you stated. n/t  DemVet   Mar-13-08 05:40 PM   #118 
  - Obama Opposes Revote In Michigan (talk left)  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-12-08 09:12 PM   #79 
  - The problem for me is that I'm NOT missing the facts about FL and MI.  tofunut   Mar-13-08 12:10 AM   #88 
  - Good thoughtful post.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 12:22 AM   #93 
  - Didn't anyone ever tell you.....  lmbradford   Mar-13-08 12:11 AM   #89 
  - I'd agree if punishing them did not punish us all  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 12:30 AM   #96 
  - Who needs FL and MI? screw 'em. O's going to win with UT and WY!! nt  VotesForWomen   Mar-13-08 12:14 AM   #90 
  - What did all 28 million do and say before this happened to...  superkia   Mar-13-08 01:51 PM   #105 
  - Do you think lazy people deserve a vote? How about ignorant people?  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 03:10 PM   #109 
     - Again, what did they do or say? Are you telling me that those...  superkia   Mar-13-08 03:27 PM   #113 
        - You seem to be blaming the people for sitting back rather than burning up the phone-lines  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 03:44 PM   #115 
  - I see your point, and I'll raise you  hfojvt   Mar-13-08 03:10 PM   #110 
  - So you can add Mississppi and one more state to the list  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 03:31 PM   #114 
  - Kick because the first step is admitting you have a problem  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-13-08 09:21 PM   #119 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC