ruggerson
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Sat Mar-08-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #107 |
| 109. the math works comparing RI to OH as well |
|
the system is screwed up because small state voters have far more disproportional influence on the nominating process than large state voters do. It needs to be fixed for 2012.
I'm glad you backed off your mistake.
|
| -2,100,000 people voted in the Ohio Dem Primary - 8000 voted in Wyoming Dem Caucus |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 09:51 PM |
#0 |
 -
Waaa! Waaa! |
ossman |
Mar-08-08 09:52 PM |
#1 |
  -
Is that supposed to have some kind of relevance? |
Bluebear |
Mar-08-08 10:26 PM |
#70 |
| -
Exactly. And proportionally every 25,000 voters in TX get 1 delegate. |
zlt234 |
Mar-08-08 09:53 PM |
#2 |
| -
the system is totally fucked up |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 09:54 PM |
#4 |
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Wow -- that's really screwed up |
theHandpuppet |
Mar-08-08 09:55 PM |
#8 |
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Damn. Obama should be getting 50 times as many delegates out of Texas as he's getting now! |
JVS |
Mar-08-08 10:20 PM |
#64 |
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Wow. Big numbers. Juicy turnout for the blue team. |
Old Crusoe |
Mar-08-08 09:53 PM |
#3 |
| -
who gives a shit |
FARAFIELD |
Mar-08-08 09:54 PM |
#5 |
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I agree. The system was designed to attempt to give each state equal representation. |
anonymous171 |
Mar-08-08 09:57 PM |
#19 |
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How is giving some small states 25 times more proportional representation |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:11 PM |
#54 |
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I do agree with you, ruggerson |
TheDoorbellRang |
Mar-08-08 10:51 PM |
#86 |
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Disparity between small states and large states is encoded into the very Constitution itself. |
Selatius |
Mar-09-08 01:51 AM |
#132 |
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exactly |
Bill McBlueState |
Mar-09-08 11:34 AM |
#167 |
| -
We are a nation of states. |
tekisui |
Mar-09-08 07:51 AM |
# |
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Inherently undemocratic |
JoFerret |
Mar-09-08 07:52 AM |
#144 |
| -
The country isn't a democracy, it's a republic |
Slagathor |
Mar-09-08 09:35 AM |
#160 |
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keep insulting democrats in red/purple states. Their super delegates will NEVER support Hillary |
cryingshame |
Mar-08-08 09:54 PM |
#6 |
| -
so you think small state voters deserve MORE proportional representation than big state voters? |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 09:56 PM |
#15 |
| -
Ever hear of the US Senate? |
dbonds |
Mar-08-08 10:06 PM |
#46 |
| -
ever hear of the US house? |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:12 PM |
#55 |
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That my point, you were supposed to connect the dots. |
dbonds |
Mar-08-08 10:17 PM |
#63 |
| -
yeah, they read DU all the time |
Omega3 |
Mar-08-08 09:57 PM |
#21 |
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We sure as hell do. |
Major Hogwash |
Mar-08-08 10:08 PM |
#52 |
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No one said you should have no impact |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:13 PM |
#56 |
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I think Howard Dean is a fucking genius for bringing the 50 state strategy back to the Dem party. |
Major Hogwash |
Mar-08-08 10:38 PM |
#76 |
| -
Kudos |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:55 PM |
#87 |
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Was there a caucus or a primary that Hillary lost today, ruggerson? |
Major Hogwash |
Mar-08-08 11:03 PM |
#92 |
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Read the disclaimer in the OP |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:20 PM |
#103 |
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Where were you in 2005 when the system was last revamped? |
Major Hogwash |
Mar-09-08 01:29 AM |
#128 |
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I personally campaigned for election reform in 2000. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 07:49 AM |
#141 |
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I understand |
ruggerson |
Mar-09-08 09:47 AM |
#163 |
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You're suggesting that Ohio should have 3300 delegates? |
NCevilDUer |
Mar-09-08 12:02 AM |
#120 |
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I'm suggesting the entire process be revamped for next time |
ruggerson |
Mar-09-08 12:09 AM |
#122 |
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Do YOU think it right that all of Wyoming should have only one |
NCevilDUer |
Mar-09-08 01:08 AM |
#125 |
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nobody wants to answer ruggerson's question |
Bill McBlueState |
Mar-09-08 11:37 AM |
#168 |
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I'm glad you noticed that |
ruggerson |
Mar-09-08 11:54 AM |
#171 |
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Don't make stupid assumptions |
Andromeda |
Mar-09-08 04:45 AM |
#135 |
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We need to work on this. Thanks for posting it! |
wlucinda |
Mar-08-08 09:55 PM |
#7 |
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What would you suggest they do different in 2012? |
hnmnf |
Mar-08-08 09:55 PM |
#9 |
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bus in more people? Maybe from Ohio? |
TheDonkey |
Mar-08-08 09:56 PM |
#18 |
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What I've been suggesting since 2000. Direct runoff democracy. Winner take all. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 09:59 PM |
#26 |
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exactly! |
ElsewheresDaughter |
Mar-08-08 10:00 PM |
#31 |
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Look in the earliest DU posts that have survived from back then, this was all that was discussed. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:03 PM |
#40 |
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Proportional representation is more truly democratic, though. |
Spider Jerusalem |
Mar-08-08 10:07 PM |
#49 |
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Runoff voting solves that issue. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:09 PM |
#53 |
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Think of the headaches this could save people! |
spoony |
Mar-09-08 09:12 AM |
#155 |
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If all candidates have the same amount of money, I'm all for it |
Hippo_Tron |
Mar-08-08 10:41 PM |
#79 |
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You don't need the same amount of money with runoff, but I am for publicly only funded... |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 07:38 AM |
#136 |
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Make it truly proportional |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:00 PM |
#33 |
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Booohoooo. |
Kittycat |
Mar-08-08 09:55 PM |
#10 |
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My, but you've become a nasty poster. When did this happen? |
Bluebear |
Mar-08-08 10:27 PM |
#71 |
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I'm drinking :) |
Kittycat |
Mar-08-08 10:47 PM |
#83 |
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LOLOL |
Bluebear |
Mar-08-08 11:55 PM |
#118 |
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Play by the rules. |
rwheeler31 |
Mar-08-08 09:56 PM |
#11 |
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Which rules? The ones saying that the superdelegates decide on a variety of criteria? |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 09:56 PM |
#17 |
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I agree. Where have I said anything to the contrary? |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 09:57 PM |
#22 |
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People say this "supports the grassroots." I say runoff voting would do that much better. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 09:56 PM |
#12 |
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I see your point. Wyoming is clearly Satan. |
TheDonkey |
Mar-08-08 09:56 PM |
#13 |
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Please stop with the snarky drivel. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 09:57 PM |
#20 |
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But "the antelope" lobby is very strong in WY |
Botany |
Mar-08-08 09:56 PM |
#14 |
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WY voters came out 90% in 2004 for their state primary, they only came out 10% this time. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 09:57 PM |
#23 |
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I noticed that they only came out 10% this time - |
DURHAM D |
Mar-09-08 01:19 AM |
#126 |
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It tells us caucuses aren't representative, that's all. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 07:38 AM |
#137 |
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In 2004, a mere 675 people statewide took part in the caucuses. |
MaineDem |
Mar-09-08 08:16 AM |
#152 |
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er... states aren't represented in congress based purely on their voter turnouts either |
enki23 |
Mar-08-08 09:56 PM |
#16 |
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Silly argument |
Gore1FL |
Mar-08-08 09:58 PM |
#24 |
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No it doesn't. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:00 PM |
#29 |
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You signline numbers are invalid |
Gore1FL |
Mar-08-08 10:02 PM |
#38 |
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The numbers are probably worse than that. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:04 PM |
#43 |
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You don't see or refuse to see? |
Gore1FL |
Mar-08-08 10:23 PM |
#67 |
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No, I don't see a difference. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 07:40 AM |
#138 |
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Caucuses are hard to attend |
Gore1FL |
Mar-09-08 07:53 AM |
#145 |
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your sig sucks. Hillary lost by the rules as they stand. |
JackORoses |
Mar-09-08 12:07 AM |
#121 |
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Hmmm. Who was head of the DNC when the rules were created? |
Mystery2Me |
Mar-08-08 09:58 PM |
#25 |
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I think these proportional rules predated him |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 09:59 PM |
#27 |
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Last census has Wyoming population at 515,004 |
dbonds |
Mar-08-08 09:59 PM |
#28 |
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Yeah, it's about 12-13%, but what's telling is they had 90% turnout in 2004... |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:01 PM |
#36 |
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Yes, and each state gets 2 Senators...... |
FrenchieCat |
Mar-08-08 10:00 PM |
#30 |
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What does that have to do with my post? |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:04 PM |
#41 |
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Gee you accidently, I am sure, left out |
dsc |
Mar-09-08 09:02 AM |
#153 |
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Unfortunately this is how all seats are allocated |
fujiyama |
Mar-08-08 10:00 PM |
#32 |
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it surprised me that the House of Representatives is that bad |
Bill McBlueState |
Mar-09-08 11:42 AM |
#169 |
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Ohio Democrats are cheap and common. Wyoming Democrats |
wienerdoggie |
Mar-08-08 10:00 PM |
#34 |
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Obama is leading in popular vote nationwide, so I don't think it makes a difference. |
John Q. Citizen |
Mar-08-08 10:01 PM |
#35 |
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Wait until the primaries hit again. His wins in NJ, MO, and GA helped him a lot. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:01 PM |
#37 |
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Obama is leading in the total popular votes for the big states |
ProSense |
Mar-08-08 10:05 PM |
#45 |
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Ahh, I forgot Illinois. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:07 PM |
#50 |
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A caucus is not a primary. States choose the method by which they select convention delegates. |
Spider Jerusalem |
Mar-08-08 10:03 PM |
#39 |
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Yes you would, and Obama would probably be getting attacked the most here, but people like me... |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:06 PM |
#47 |
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Perhaps if you posted some of your threads from 2004 it would lend credibility to your |
John Q. Citizen |
Mar-08-08 10:50 PM |
#84 |
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I did post about how Dean got owned in '04 because of the fucking caucusing system. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 07:51 AM |
#143 |
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I didn't think you could put up. |
John Q. Citizen |
Mar-09-08 03:11 PM |
#177 |
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Do the math it works the same with Rhode Island and Vermont |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:08 PM |
#51 |
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Except that the delegate totals are based on Congressional districts and overall state population. |
Spider Jerusalem |
Mar-08-08 10:13 PM |
#57 |
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I'm arguing the current system is fucked up |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:14 PM |
#58 |
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That actually lends more credence to the argument. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:14 PM |
#59 |
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I can hear hillary now. 666 means that Obama's voters were EVIL! the face |
antifaschits |
Mar-08-08 10:04 PM |
#42 |
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Wyoming has 500K people in the whole state...& more of 'em are R's |
SoCalDem |
Mar-08-08 10:05 PM |
#44 |
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10% went. 90% went to the polls in 2004. |
joshcryer |
Mar-08-08 10:06 PM |
#48 |
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Democracy is about eliminating barriers to participating |
Cant trust em |
Mar-08-08 10:20 PM |
#65 |
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Hard to do when your caucus is at a certain time though, and you have other obligations. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 07:47 AM |
#140 |
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That's why I like the idea of saturday caucuses |
Cant trust em |
Mar-09-08 11:25 AM |
#165 |
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That's called a primary. Very similar to how some firehouse primaries are. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 01:26 PM |
#174 |
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If you're not politically aware, you will be by the time you leave |
Cant trust em |
Mar-09-08 02:26 PM |
#176 |
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It's not up to ME.. it's up to Wyoming |
SoCalDem |
Mar-08-08 10:22 PM |
#66 |
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Caucuses are akin to superdelegates as far as I'm concerned. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 07:46 AM |
#139 |
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Delegates are chosen from party loyalists.. People who work their asses off for the party |
SoCalDem |
Mar-09-08 07:58 AM |
#146 |
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WY proves that not everyone can participate in a caucus. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 08:07 AM |
#149 |
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It all comes down to choice.. some people didn't care enough to show up |
SoCalDem |
Mar-09-08 08:10 AM |
#150 |
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No, it was physically impossible. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 09:28 AM |
#157 |
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I just think everyone's vote counts equally. |
AZBlue |
Mar-08-08 10:16 PM |
#60 |
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Not the way the current system is set up they don't |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:17 PM |
#62 |
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Not in the GE either. |
AZBlue |
Mar-08-08 10:25 PM |
#68 |
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It's the same for the electoral system. Ohioans still get A LOT more attention |
Levgreee |
Mar-08-08 10:16 PM |
#61 |
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Yeah? Obama has 600,000 more votes than Hillary. How convenient you overlooked that. |
David Zephyr |
Mar-08-08 10:26 PM |
#69 |
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This isn't about Obama vs Clinton |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:37 PM |
#75 |
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Again, the one man one vote example is clear: Obama has 600,000 more votes. |
David Zephyr |
Mar-08-08 11:02 PM |
#91 |
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Are you just pretending to be obtuse? |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:07 PM |
#94 |
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You are comparing apples and oranges. A caucus is a bigger time commitment, so less people will vote |
milkyway |
Mar-08-08 10:35 PM |
#72 |
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The math is equally ridiculous with small primary states |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:41 PM |
#80 |
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too bad people can't read your disclaimer |
frogcycle |
Mar-08-08 10:35 PM |
#73 |
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Most people see |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:39 PM |
#77 |
| -
Technically, the electoral college process works the same way too. |
Jamastiene |
Mar-08-08 10:37 PM |
#74 |
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I'm pretty sure 8000 is the number of convention delegates, more than 8000 people caucused |
Hippo_Tron |
Mar-08-08 10:40 PM |
#78 |
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no, you're incorrect |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 10:43 PM |
#81 |
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No you are incorrect! |
ProSense |
Mar-08-08 11:04 PM |
#93 |
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No you have it wrong |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:11 PM |
#97 |
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No, they caucused as part of the overall process, they will select 319. |
ProSense |
Mar-08-08 11:17 PM |
#100 |
| -
That's not any different from what I said |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:24 PM |
#104 |
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You can't compare a caucus to a primary! That's like comparing Nevada to NY. |
ProSense |
Mar-08-08 11:32 PM |
#107 |
| -
the math works comparing RI to OH as well |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:34 PM |
#109 |
| -
"I'm glad you backed off your mistake." Huh? Your desperation is |
ProSense |
Mar-08-08 11:39 PM |
#113 |
| -
I realize that being wrong |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:47 PM |
#117 |
| -
Sigh. |
Maddy McCall |
Mar-08-08 11:34 PM |
#108 |
| -
notice how he switched the subject when he realized he was wrong |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:36 PM |
#111 |
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What are you talking about? You are wrong, face it. The 8000 were caucus goers not |
ProSense |
Mar-08-08 11:38 PM |
#112 |
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they are 8000 people who voted in Wyoming. Period. |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:42 PM |
#114 |
| -
"translate ultimately into 12 delegates to the national convention." Yes, Hillary on the short end. |
ProSense |
Mar-08-08 11:43 PM |
#116 |
| -
"You can't talk sensibly with senseless people" Obviously you're |
ProSense |
Mar-08-08 11:42 PM |
#115 |
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Gheez - you are so damn wrong and so don't fucking get it. eom |
DURHAM D |
Mar-09-08 01:28 AM |
#127 |
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No, you're in denial and "so don't fucking get it." Moronic! n/t |
ProSense |
Mar-09-08 11:05 AM |
#164 |
| -
The populations is way lower in that state though just under 500,000 compared to 11 million in Ohio. |
cooolandrew |
Mar-08-08 10:46 PM |
# |
| -
... |
cooolandrew |
Mar-08-08 10:46 PM |
#82 |
| -
A win is a win though. That's fine with me, however you dissect it. |
cooolandrew |
Mar-08-08 10:50 PM |
#85 |
| -
Poor hillary little hillary....ahhhh |
bowens43 |
Mar-08-08 10:57 PM |
#88 |
| -
bite me |
frogcycle |
Mar-08-08 11:00 PM |
#90 |
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I swear the posts on here are getting more ignorant by the minute. |
IsItJustMe |
Mar-08-08 10:59 PM |
#89 |
| -
You are wrong. |
DURHAM D |
Mar-09-08 01:32 AM |
#129 |
| -
in order to form a more perfect union.... |
mythyc |
Mar-08-08 11:08 PM |
#95 |
| -
Well, NY awards 232 delegates, and half a million fewer people voted there than OH |
frazzled |
Mar-08-08 11:11 PM |
#96 |
| -
I agree - the system is totally screwed up |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:14 PM |
#99 |
| -
funny, i've never seen a post from you griping about representiational disparity in the senate |
mythyc |
Mar-08-08 11:20 PM |
#102 |
| -
apples and oranges |
ruggerson |
Mar-08-08 11:30 PM |
#106 |
| -
you're right on the apples and oranges, though check this out: |
mythyc |
Mar-09-08 12:43 AM |
#124 |
| -
Amazing. Wow have you been patient. |
DURHAM D |
Mar-09-08 01:38 AM |
#131 |
| -
Why do you hate democracy? |
Jim Sagle |
Mar-08-08 11:12 PM |
#98 |
| -
small states |
mbergen |
Mar-08-08 11:18 PM |
#101 |
| -
this is just the system we have |
johnnydrama |
Mar-08-08 11:29 PM |
#105 |
| -
Hillary? is that you? |
meow mix |
Mar-08-08 11:36 PM |
#110 |
| -
666! |
NCevilDUer |
Mar-08-08 11:55 PM |
#119 |
| -
An eminently reasonable question. |
krkaufman |
Mar-09-08 12:26 AM |
#123 |
| -
For fuck's sake already |
NMMatt |
Mar-09-08 01:35 AM |
#130 |
| -
Well if we're sticking to that precedent |
spoony |
Mar-09-08 09:20 AM |
#156 |
| -
Good point that I hadn't considered. |
avrdream |
Mar-09-08 03:39 AM |
#133 |
| -
Inequity is only bad when it harms Obama. Didn't you realize that? |
aquarius dawning |
Mar-09-08 04:27 AM |
#134 |
| -
Lke every state getting two senators |
JoFerret |
Mar-09-08 07:50 AM |
#142 |
| -
A lot like the electoral college. |
Sparkly |
Mar-09-08 08:03 AM |
#147 |
| -
FYI - In Ohio |
Vinca |
Mar-09-08 08:03 AM |
#148 |
| -
Except there was crossover R vote tampering, espeially in SW OH because Huck was already a goner |
rosebud57 |
Mar-09-08 09:40 AM |
#162 |
| -
Are you sure that's the total vote and not just state delegates? |
MaineDem |
Mar-09-08 08:13 AM |
#151 |
| -
Another state that voted Obama doesn't matter, gotcha... |
stevenleser |
Mar-09-08 09:05 AM |
#154 |
| -
Oh, it matters, but not as much to superdelegates as Obama supporters claim. |
joshcryer |
Mar-09-08 09:29 AM |
#158 |
| -
So you advocate getting rid of senate representation for RI and DE? |
Slagathor |
Mar-09-08 09:34 AM |
#159 |
| -
And the heavy GOP SW OH exurban counties voted Hill in an open primary |
rosebud57 |
Mar-09-08 09:37 AM |
#161 |
| -
interesting point |
Bill McBlueState |
Mar-09-08 11:32 AM |
#166 |
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They capped the number of representatives to 435 in 1911. We had to split them for all ever since |
Selatius |
Mar-09-08 01:16 PM |
#173 |
| -
REPUBLICAN CROSS-OVER VOTING IN OHIO (OH GOP ROOTS FOR HILLARY!) |
mod mom |
Mar-09-08 11:48 AM |
#170 |
| -
Thank you..... |
Me_Shell |
Mar-09-08 01:40 PM |
#175 |
| -
Right math, wrong question |
RichardRay |
Mar-09-08 12:27 PM |
#172 |
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