You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Caucus Drives Latest Ruckus: Clinton Campaign Says System Is Undemocratic [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 01:06 PM
Original message
Caucus Drives Latest Ruckus: Clinton Campaign Says System Is Undemocratic
Advertisements [?]
WSJ: March 6, 2008
Caucus Drives Latest Ruckus: Clinton Campaign Says System Is Undemocratic; Obama Camp Disagrees
By JUNE KRONHOLZ, BEN CASSELMAN and T.W. FARNAM
March 6, 2008; Page A7

Presidential nominating caucuses are older, cheaper and more citizen-driven than primaries. But Sen. Hillary Clinton is charging that they also are less fair, after her loss to Sen. Barack Obama Tuesday in the Texas caucuses despite winning the state's primary earlier in the day. The Clinton complaints against the Obama campaign almost assure that the caucus system will be part of the fight between the two Democrats before the August nominating convention -- and just as surely will become part of a Democratic Party review of the nominating system after the November elections.

Among other things, the Clinton campaign is charging that Obama supporters edged out Clinton supporters in the Texas caucuses by arriving early and either locking the doors or taking charge of the packets explaining how the caucuses were to proceed....

***

Caucuses work to the advantage of a campaign that can turn out voters for a designated hour or two, usually on a weekday evening. A candidate's supporters meet at a central location, where only those who are present can cast ballots. Supporters divide into groups according to candidate. That system has benefited Sen. Obama, whose strongest support is among young voters, students and white-collar workers who have flexibility at work and aren't intimidated by the face-to-face nature of caucus politics. Clinton supporters, on the other hand, are generally older, less educated and working class, with less control over their work schedules -- a practical problem that Sen. Clinton has spoken of in recent rallies.

The rules can be confusing. In Dallas Tuesday evening, Clinton supporter Irene Alexander talked to Obama headquarters after her precinct voted 95% for Sen. Obama. "I'm trying to determine if Clinton gets any delegates out of this precinct," she said as other volunteers consulted the party rulebook. "I'm a schoolteacher. I don't know how I got up here, involved in all of this." Other Clinton supporters complained of boos and laughter when they identified themselves at caucuses in precincts where Sen. Obama is popular, or said the system discouraged elderly voters by requiring them to stand in long lines to state their preferences.

Sen. Clinton is likely to use those claims with Democratic superdelegates, whose shift to Sen. Obama before the Texas and Ohio votes had been seen as dooming her hopes of winning the nomination....By arguing that she has won in the big primary states -- California, Ohio, Texas and her homestate of New York among them -- Sen. Clinton could claim that she is better able to beat Arizona Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee, than could Sen. Obama. In her victory speech in Ohio Tuesday night, Sen. Clinton pointedly reminded Democrats that the party needs an Ohio win in November, a key swing state, if it hopes to take the White House.

Party leaders have long defended the caucus system by saying it relies on the candidates' organizational skills and grass-roots support, both of which become vital in the November elections. But the national party often has little control over the states' nominating processes and little interest in getting involved in changing them....

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB1204770083...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -Caucus Drives Latest Ruckus: Clinton Campaign Says System Is Undemocratic DeepModem Mom  Mar-06-08 01:06 PM   #0 
  - Caucuses reek of Castro's Cuba  billbuckhead   Mar-06-08 01:08 PM   #1 
  - yeah, Castro lets citizens hold caucuses...  NorthernSpy   Mar-06-08 01:13 PM   #6 
  - don't be utterly ridiculous. There is nothing inherently undemocratic  cali   Mar-06-08 01:14 PM   #9 
  - You think a fixed window of time that prohibits some from voting is democratic?  wlucinda   Mar-06-08 01:22 PM   #14 
     - You are clueless as to how caucuses work in my state. -eom  Justitia   Mar-06-08 01:27 PM   #18 
     - So those people who can't caucus can still be counted?  wlucinda   Mar-06-08 01:30 PM   #23 
        - Yup - absolutely. We have early voting for a full 10 days.  Justitia   Mar-06-08 01:37 PM   #27 
        - So the votes of people who can't go to the caucus don't count the same as those who do both?  wlucinda   Mar-06-08 01:40 PM   #30 
           - No, 2/3 of all delegates come from ballot, 1/3 from caucus. It's a percentage of the same vote.  Justitia   Mar-06-08 01:47 PM   #38 
              - Isn't the 1/3 vote still biased against those who cannot caucus?  wlucinda   Mar-06-08 01:53 PM   #42 
                 - No, it's not "biased", the 1/3 is representative of Democratic activism.  Justitia   Mar-06-08 01:59 PM   #51 
                    - And doesn't reward those who have to work or are not physically able to caucus.  wlucinda   Mar-06-08 02:03 PM   #53 
        - Maybe in Texas but not in all states...  democrat_nanny   Mar-06-08 01:53 PM   #43 
           - I like the idea of a caucus a lot, but each person should have the same say  wlucinda   Mar-06-08 01:59 PM   #49 
              - Maine has absentee caucusing for any reason whatsoever  eridani   Mar-07-08 05:19 AM   #58 
     - I think caucuses are very democratic  cali   Mar-06-08 01:29 PM   #21 
        - I LOVE the idea of a caucus. It's direct and raw and very romantic, but  wlucinda   Mar-06-08 01:38 PM   #28 
        - They're only undemocratic because Hilly loses them.  Window   Mar-06-08 02:01 PM   #52 
  - Really?  Inuca   Mar-06-08 01:24 PM   #15 
  - Open primaries  tabatha   Mar-06-08 01:08 PM   #2 
  - All this familiarity with politics, and now she complains?  Starbucks Anarchist   Mar-06-08 01:09 PM   #3 
  - She loved it in 1992  WolverineDG   Mar-06-08 01:13 PM   #5 
     - It's funny how it's only undemocratic when you lose. Gimme a break!  InAbLuEsTaTe   Mar-06-08 01:14 PM   #7 
  - Oh yeah  WolverineDG   Mar-06-08 01:12 PM   #4 
  - I was the election judge. We locked the doors at 7:00 to keep the Caucasus goers out until the  Vincardog   Mar-06-08 01:45 PM   #35 
     - Our election judge kept us out until after the last person voted  WolverineDG   Mar-06-08 04:28 PM   #55 
  - It looked like democracy to me!  ClayZ   Mar-06-08 01:14 PM   #8 
  - She didn't have a problem with the Texas caucus in 92/96 when her husband ran  MagickMuffin   Mar-06-08 01:14 PM   #10 
  - So, the caucus are not democratic because some people got heckled  snooper2   Mar-06-08 01:16 PM   #11 
  - Desperation is a stinky cologne  anigbrowl   Mar-06-08 01:20 PM   #12 
  - her own training materials call for excluding Obama supporters from serving as caucus officials...  NorthernSpy   Mar-06-08 01:21 PM   #13 
  - The Clintons essentially ran the DNC for 12 years  theboss   Mar-06-08 01:25 PM   #16 
  - States Rights....  democrat_nanny   Mar-06-08 01:54 PM   #45 
  - Indeed. Why weren't caucuses undemocratic in 1992 and 1996?  eridani   Mar-07-08 05:19 AM   #59 
  - At least the "voters are sheeple" meme will die an overdue death now. It is inspiring  pampango   Mar-06-08 01:27 PM   #17 
  - Hillary's supporters just aren't as dedicated, that's all.  JackORoses   Mar-06-08 01:28 PM   #19 
  - When Clinton loses, she threatens to sue state Dem parties & throws them under the bus.  Justitia   Mar-06-08 01:28 PM   #20 
  - Whine hilary Whine...'cause that's all your  zidzi   Mar-06-08 01:29 PM   #22 
  - It is becoming increasingly clear that BO is no friend to democracy.  MyPetRock   Mar-06-08 01:30 PM   #24 
  - of course, she's losing  blocker   Mar-06-08 01:32 PM   #25 
  - Then run for President of Paraguay or something Hillary  shadowknows69   Mar-06-08 01:35 PM   #26 
  - We've had the same rules in Texas since 1972. Why the outrage now?  sparosnare   Mar-06-08 01:40 PM   #29 
  - Because the rules are biased and make Hillary sad.  AtomicKitten   Mar-06-08 01:41 PM   #32 
  - trite  paulk   Mar-06-08 01:56 PM   #46 
     - What is trite is her sniveling about the rules in the middle of the game just because she's losing.  AtomicKitten   Mar-06-08 02:26 PM   #54 
  - Because unlike when her husband won here in '92, she's losing. -eom  Justitia   Mar-06-08 01:41 PM   #33 
  - Whereas anonymous voting into hack-able machines owned by RWers is the epitome of democracy.  thecatburgler   Mar-06-08 01:40 PM   #31 
  - Bet I know what she'd be saying if she'd WON...  AZBlue   Mar-06-08 01:43 PM   #34 
  - Voting should be made as easy as possible for everyone to participate. I have a hard time  wlucinda   Mar-06-08 01:45 PM   #36 
  - Why doesn't Hillaryworld like democracy?  zulchzulu   Mar-06-08 01:46 PM   #37 
  - yeah...welll.....  lmbradford   Mar-06-08 01:48 PM   #39 
  - Of course they arent fair, but these rules have been in place for a long time, and she knew about it  hnmnf   Mar-06-08 01:50 PM   #40 
  - The caucus process is undemocratic...  democrat_nanny   Mar-06-08 01:51 PM   #41 
  - The caucus process is only "undemocratic" when your candidate gets their ass kicked  zulchzulu   Mar-06-08 01:59 PM   #50 
  - If you really want to participate  WolverineDG   Mar-06-08 04:33 PM   #57 
  - But simultaneously, HRC wants to net 616k votes and 100 delegates from Michigan's  ProgressiveEconomist   Mar-06-08 01:54 PM   #44 
  - Yes, they're obviously undemocratic, Clinton lost.  billyoc   Mar-06-08 01:57 PM   #47 
  - Pack it up Hill, your finished. n/t  ExFreeper4Obama   Mar-06-08 01:58 PM   #48 
  - They are undemocratic  sniffa   Mar-06-08 04:29 PM   #56 
  - Those are her failing tactics.  votesomemore   Mar-07-08 05:39 AM   #60 
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC