WitchWay
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Fri Mar-26-04 05:19 AM
Response to Original message |
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Chomsky is ignorant about the mass of people and their motivations. His rant is so bourgeouis and demeaning. Chomsky talks about the "mass of people" like they are some all-the-same homogenous group of victimhood and low expectations. What the hell does he know of the masses?
When you grow up poor, or in a bad situation -- the "slightly better" risks like he describes are slightly nothing. He gives health care as an example of that "slightly better" -- but the democrats won't give a shit about you if you're poor either. Hell, I couldn't get any fucking health insurance under DEMOCRATIC rule. Chomsky's mass of people are upper and middle middle class!
If you grow up when things are bad -- things suck so bad, that it doesn't really matter if some upper middle class people have some extra perks in their life, when you don't get ANYTHING.
You learn its better to take serious gambles and risks in life, than to live half-assed. And if you are smart enough to not be so "sensible" (like Chomsky thinks that folks OUGHT to be) -- you can act like a fool and talk back, speak out, make loud and serious demands, show foolish courage and determination -- instead of cowering and begging for crumbs your whole life. Then, you're getting somewhere...(and at least then if you are getting screwed, at least you are not being USED on top).
Chomsky wants to fantasize that the "mass of the people" can be some hapless little pawn-victims to be manipulated on some chessboard of systemic hopelessness. Chomsky is a firm believer in systemic hopelessness and perpetual powerless victims of circumstance. And whats laughable is that chomsky's view of the mass of people IS an "abstract discussions suitable to some seminar."
Chomsky is really just bought into the mainstream media and should get a grasp on how they manipulate language in order to determine public opinion and imagination for their own corporate/imperialist ends. Chomsky's real world is real middle/upper class intellectual ivy league world of pedantism, NOT any real world I've lived in. In "REAL"ITY -- people aren't so HOPELESSLY beholden to the prisons of chomsky's worldview of: language, media, thought, politics.
But, I guess Chomsky likes to look down on people.
Chomsky knows full well that demands can still be made, that the "mass of people" are powerful (not small and weak)...he is disingenous in the extreme to call for Unity when it's precisely premature Unity which will stifle progress. People are full of courage and intelligence -- people aren't so stupid to take the not at all acceptable "slightly better" bait only to wind up caught in the same trap in the end.
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| -Check out Chomsky's blog for his position re: this election |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 01:06 AM |
#0 |
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I guess now some people will say Chomsky is a tool of Corporate America |
bluestateguy |
Mar-26-04 01:11 AM |
#1 |
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Actually |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 01:19 AM |
#2 |
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I didn't get that at all. |
JDStutts |
Mar-26-04 01:34 AM |
#3 |
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Yes that's what he said |
Feanorcurufinwe |
Mar-26-04 01:44 AM |
#4 |
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I just love the words "seems to be saying" |
sangh0 |
Mar-26-04 09:04 AM |
#15 |
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Isn't everyone tired of "march in lockstep" by now? |
RandomKoolzip |
Mar-26-04 09:36 AM |
#19 |
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Yep |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 02:02 AM |
#5 |
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did he really, or is that merely your projection? |
kodi |
Mar-26-04 02:06 AM |
#6 |
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Put it on pause |
zulchzulu |
Mar-26-04 02:15 AM |
#7 |
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Maybe I'm thinking of another vote. |
JDStutts |
Mar-26-04 02:22 AM |
#8 |
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"gave B*sh all the cover he needed to invade Iraq "???? |
sangh0 |
Mar-26-04 09:07 AM |
#16 |
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? |
ulysses |
Mar-26-04 05:31 AM |
#10 |
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I think he just said hold your nose and vote against bush, actually |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 09:40 AM |
#20 |
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Sorry my friend, I think the point is FAR more salient and is |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 10:13 AM |
#30 |
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I think his blog proves Chomsky is sane. |
saywhat |
Mar-26-04 11:11 AM |
#57 |
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Chomsky is ignorant |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 05:19 AM |
#9 |
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No, Chomsky knows where its at |
Vladimir |
Mar-26-04 06:07 AM |
#12 |
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Chomsky Knows How to Discourage the Left |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 08:47 AM |
#14 |
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discourage the left?? |
ZombyWoof |
Mar-26-04 10:01 AM |
#25 |
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Discourage the Left |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 10:44 AM |
#39 |
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I disagree entirely |
Vladimir |
Mar-26-04 10:39 AM |
#36 |
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Just more thoughts... |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 12:28 PM |
#77 |
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Fair enough |
Vladimir |
Mar-26-04 12:38 PM |
#78 |
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Fair Enough |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 12:55 PM |
#80 |
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Best. Post. Ever. |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 10:28 AM |
#34 |
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Interesting how some will quote Chomsky on the need to vote... |
Zhade |
Mar-26-04 09:53 PM |
#108 |
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Wish I'd said that! I'm a DK Democrat who is befuddled by |
blondeatlast |
Mar-26-04 07:58 AM |
#13 |
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You're the one being unaware -- see my post #17, below. (nt) |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 09:22 AM |
#18 |
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Unawareness? |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 09:59 AM |
#24 |
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I guess we learn something every day. |
Kerryfan |
Mar-26-04 10:15 AM |
#31 |
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: ) Politics is at least 3D |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 12:58 PM |
#81 |
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Thought is 3 dimensional. |
info being |
Mar-26-04 04:08 PM |
#101 |
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Yikes! Check out |
charlie |
Mar-26-04 05:43 AM |
#11 |
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I had to WADE through the thread to get to this..YIKES is right |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 04:45 PM |
#104 |
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Those railing against Kerry are betraying the "margins of society" |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 09:21 AM |
#17 |
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"I mean, it's almost Orwellian!" |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 09:45 AM |
#21 |
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redqueen, I think you're missing a vital piece of Chomsky's argument |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 10:05 AM |
#26 |
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Grassroots |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 10:45 AM |
#40 |
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In the words of Ronnie Raygun, "There you go again..." |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 10:51 AM |
#46 |
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Issues, of course |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 10:58 AM |
#52 |
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Party politicos at fundraisers have nothing to do with issues! |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:06 AM |
#54 |
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*sigh* |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:14 AM |
#59 |
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sigh, yourself |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:22 AM |
#62 |
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I'm not saying *I* dont' see the need to evict the usurper |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:30 AM |
#64 |
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But what you are doing right now is *gambling*, redqueen |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:36 AM |
#67 |
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Am I? |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:52 AM |
#71 |
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Yes you are, and that denial was very disingenous |
sangh0 |
Mar-26-04 04:29 PM |
#103 |
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Yes, yes and yes again |
Vladimir |
Mar-26-04 10:45 AM |
#42 |
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"We as activists" |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:01 AM |
#53 |
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Then get out there and do something for the nominee!!! |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:08 AM |
#55 |
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I'm in Texas, IC |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:16 AM |
#60 |
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Do you at least find openings on issues down there? |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:47 AM |
#69 |
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Yes, and I do that |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:54 AM |
#72 |
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I'm not trying to convert |
Vladimir |
Mar-26-04 11:43 AM |
#68 |
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What anti-leftist rhetoric? |
Feanorcurufinwe |
Mar-26-04 10:08 AM |
#27 |
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Nothing to see here. Move along. |
blondeatlast |
Mar-26-04 09:50 AM |
#22 |
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The Margins of Society? |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 09:56 AM |
#23 |
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he DID support DK |
ZombyWoof |
Mar-26-04 10:08 AM |
#28 |
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What I am concerned about is Unity without Representation |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 11:33 AM |
#65 |
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Your background on this subject is duly noted |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 10:09 AM |
#29 |
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About tactics |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 11:55 AM |
#73 |
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Actually Chris, there are CERTAIN segments on the far left |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 10:20 AM |
#32 |
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I'm not sure I'm seeing your point on the housing issue, Teena |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 10:27 AM |
#33 |
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The point is that THIS form of socialized housing |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 10:42 AM |
#37 |
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OK, now I see your point |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 10:46 AM |
#43 |
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NOT quite the point I was making |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 10:50 AM |
#45 |
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OK, NOW I see where you are going with this |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 10:53 AM |
#47 |
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It is one area where I do tend to lean tinfoilish |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 10:57 AM |
#51 |
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Believe me, Teena -- I can tinfoil with the best of em! |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:11 AM |
#58 |
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Then what do you think about? |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 12:13 PM |
#75 |
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Oh please...no I have no problem with this...if they got solar power in |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 06:44 PM |
#105 |
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I think you're overstating the case, at least in your subject line. |
RichM |
Mar-26-04 10:29 AM |
#35 |
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No, Rich -- I think it's you who doesn't have a case in this instance |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 10:42 AM |
#38 |
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"...the issues I believe in, and that DK championed. " |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 10:54 AM |
#49 |
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Yeah, he's still championing them -- to the already converted |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:09 AM |
#56 |
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Yer killin' me! |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:19 AM |
#61 |
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Percentage vs. turnout |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:24 AM |
#63 |
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I hate guessing games, so I checked |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:35 AM |
#66 |
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The way I see this... |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 11:51 AM |
#70 |
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But you still think he was just preaching to the choir? |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 11:57 AM |
#74 |
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Not totally, no. But I still think there's a danger you're ignoring. |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 12:21 PM |
#76 |
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Last week I'd have thought they'd follow DK's lead and vote Dem |
redqueen |
Mar-26-04 12:42 PM |
#79 |
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Oh I think he made that point here |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 10:45 AM |
#41 |
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Good post |
ACK |
Mar-26-04 10:47 AM |
#44 |
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Thanks it isn't so much running into as running over |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 10:56 AM |
#50 |
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Right! People talk like Kerry is some DLC puppet conservative |
ACK |
Mar-26-04 01:07 PM |
#83 |
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Well, this struck me... |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 01:21 PM |
#85 |
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You won't be satisfied regardless.... |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Mar-26-04 01:43 PM |
#86 |
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I'll be satisfied if the this Imperialist Crap Stops |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 02:13 PM |
#90 |
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So, basically what you're saying is... |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 02:17 PM |
#92 |
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We should have Authority over the Government |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 02:36 PM |
#95 |
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I don't think you're dictatorial for opposing war |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 02:47 PM |
#96 |
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I apologize for My inflexibility |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 03:40 PM |
#99 |
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single issue voter. |
ACK |
Mar-26-04 01:57 PM |
#87 |
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No, not quite. |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 02:03 PM |
#89 |
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yeah - there are alot of things I don't like about Kerry |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 02:22 PM |
#93 |
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OK, so what's your plan then |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 02:33 PM |
#94 |
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To answer some of your inquiries. |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 02:57 PM |
#97 |
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You're not telling me anything I don't already know |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 03:06 PM |
#98 |
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I've heard it all before.... |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 04:17 PM |
#102 |
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Wow. He's EXACTLY RIGHT! |
mzmolly |
Mar-26-04 10:54 AM |
#48 |
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But you have to realize |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 01:02 PM |
#82 |
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But what you're raising is the question of "ignored by whom?" |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 01:15 PM |
#84 |
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The Grassroots of the Party? |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 02:02 PM |
#88 |
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Who are the grassroots you're referring to here? |
IrateCitizen |
Mar-26-04 02:14 PM |
#91 |
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Grassroots? |
WitchWay |
Mar-26-04 04:05 PM |
#100 |
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Grassroots efforts could empower politicians |
union_maid |
Mar-26-04 09:20 PM |
#106 |
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Good for Chomsky! |
Darranar |
Mar-26-04 09:32 PM |
#107 |