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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
debsianben Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 12:10 AM
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42. Not just IWR

It's not just Kerry's vote for the IWR(and support for keeping the troops in Iraq because "now that we're there, we can't just leave"), it's also his vote for NAFTA(and lifelong support for free trade), it's also his vote for the Patriot Act, it's also his vote for the union-busting Homeland Security Bill, it's also his vote for "No Child Left Behind," etc. All of these votes make it very hard to convince any one who might be considering voting third-party that a Kerry administration would mean any kind of sharp break from continued empire-building abroad, the continuing erosion of civil liberties at home and the continued consolidation of corporate power and worshipping at the altar of "the free market."

The fact is that there's no getting around the fact that if the Democratic Party had wanted to get the votes of the Greens and their supporters, they had their chance--it was called the primaries. They blew it, and picked the single candidate (other than Liebermann and maybe one or two others) out of the 10 options who was LEAST likely to attract those votes.

A lot of people are trying to revise history now and pretend that Kerry is some great progressive populist in the Nader/Kucinich mold, but I doubt any one is buying other than those so desperate to make themselves feeel better about holding their nose and voting for him in November that they can convince themselves of it. The fact is that, when if you're trying to woo the votes of the 3 million Americans who voted for Nader in 2000 or the millions of Americans who voted for Green candidates in the mid-term elections in 2002, picking a pro-war, pro-"free trade," anti-civil liberties candidate ain't gonna get the job done.
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  -What are the chances of getting the Green Party endorsement for Kerry? eeyore  Mar-09-04 05:43 PM   #0 
  - 0%  Doomsayer13   Mar-09-04 05:48 PM   #1 
  - And watch Nader disappear in a puff of irrelevance?  FlashHarry   Mar-09-04 05:49 PM   #2 
  - -1%  Wabbajack   Mar-09-04 05:49 PM   #3 
  - Slim and none  no name no slogan   Mar-09-04 05:51 PM   #4 
  - You can read the Green Party's website, generally their positions trend  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-09-04 05:53 PM   #5 
  - Would the Greens ever endorse a Dem for the greater good?  eeyore   Mar-09-04 06:05 PM   #6 
  - They'd have endorsed Dennis Kucinich. (nt)  rbnyc   Mar-09-04 06:23 PM   #9 
  - I'll answer with pictures  Exgeneral   Mar-09-04 06:08 PM   #7 
  - Love it!  eeyore   Mar-09-04 06:10 PM   #8 
  - And Pickens just left the building.  RUMMYisFROSTED   Mar-09-04 07:25 PM   #12 
  - Not in a million years  WitchWay   Mar-09-04 07:15 PM   #10 
  - is being vegan  paulk   Mar-09-04 10:05 PM   #22 
     - No  WitchWay   Mar-10-04 05:06 AM   #83 
  - About the same as Kerry getting the Republican Party nomination  dolstein   Mar-09-04 07:22 PM   #11 
  - But we need to to beat Bush and save the world. I know the Green  genius   Mar-09-04 07:42 PM   #14 
     - Actually, Sir  The Magistrate   Mar-09-04 08:05 PM   #16 
     - We have asked  GreenInNC   Mar-09-04 08:07 PM   #17 
        - Show That You Are Useful, Sir  The Magistrate   Mar-09-04 08:18 PM   #18 
        - define useful n/t  GreenInNC   Mar-09-04 08:21 PM   #19 
           - help Dems get elected  Forkboy   Mar-09-04 08:24 PM   #21 
              - Not Quite, My Friend  The Magistrate   Mar-10-04 12:34 PM   #86 
        - Answer: Don't Ask the DNC  mobuto   Mar-09-04 11:18 PM   #28 
  - I've been talking to the Greens and it won't happen  genius   Mar-09-04 07:39 PM   #13 
  - Plenty of SF Greens endorsed Kucinich & voted for him in the primary.  RichM   Mar-09-04 08:23 PM   #20 
  - We can't do it.  GreenInNC   Mar-09-04 08:01 PM   #15 
  - My God. What a disaster that would be.  John_H   Mar-09-04 10:43 PM   #23 
  - ha they are for decentralization of wealth AND power and grassroots  corporatewhore   Mar-09-04 11:04 PM   #26 
     - The biggest Green haters  Forkboy   Mar-09-04 11:08 PM   #27 
     - and are just two sites that interested people  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-09-04 11:23 PM   #29 
        - here's another one  mobuto   Mar-09-04 11:26 PM   #30 
           - I like DF's links better  Forkboy   Mar-09-04 11:27 PM   #31 
           - Yes, but one is realistic  mobuto   Mar-09-04 11:31 PM   #33 
              - I like fantasies  Forkboy   Mar-09-04 11:49 PM   #36 
                 - We already knew that if you are considering voting third party for Prez  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:00 AM   #38 
                 - Butterflies  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:13 AM   #45 
                    - And repeating that word reveals what about your skill at debate?  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:16 AM   #46 
                       - Butterflies  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:17 AM   #47 
                          - No, I don't 'get' what you think is clever about repeating 'butterflies'.  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:20 AM   #50 
                             - nah  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:21 AM   #51 
                             - Perhaps you don't see anything clever about it either? nah,didn't think so  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:26 AM   #54 
                                - It just gets better!  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:30 AM   #56 
                                   - How so?  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:34 AM   #61 
                                      - I can't say  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:37 AM   #64 
                                         - It's like trying to describe the artistry of a blank canvas.  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:58 AM   #75 
                                         - that would be a ghost in a snowstorm  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 01:00 AM   #76 
                             - There are few more arrogant  mobuto   Mar-10-04 12:25 AM   #53 
                                - Awww butterflies  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:31 AM   #57 
                                - But how would you know if you were?  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:34 AM   #62 
                                   - Secret cool guy decoder ring  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:38 AM   #65 
                                      - What's your point?  mobuto   Mar-10-04 12:40 AM   #67 
                                      - None of the above!  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:43 AM   #70 
                                      - We're not saying we don't want to hear your ideas - we're saying we do  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:55 AM   #73 
                                      - you seem perturbed  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 01:01 AM   #78 
                                      - The word is bored,  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 01:04 AM   #79 
                                      - can't be too bored  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 01:11 AM   #81 
                                      - And that's what tells you you're better than other people?  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 12:51 AM   #72 
                                         - That and the butterflies  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:56 AM   #74 
                                         - Come on, try at least to come up with something.  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-10-04 01:00 AM   #77 
                                         - oh ok  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 01:05 AM   #80 
                                - dunno, those who seek the destruction of the Dem party come close  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-10-04 12:31 AM   #58 
                                - That would be you?  mobuto   Mar-10-04 12:36 AM   #63 
                                   - bush has professionals to smear Kerry with the progressive label  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-10-04 12:40 AM   #68 
                                - See post #17  redqueen   Mar-10-04 12:52 PM   #87 
                                - I am a Green  GreenInNC   Mar-10-04 06:24 PM   #90 
                 - So because Democrats have no spine  mobuto   Mar-10-04 12:02 AM   #39 
                    - Kerry does not need the votes of those who oppose the status quo  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-10-04 12:05 AM   #41 
                    - John Kerry wants everybody's vote  mobuto   Mar-10-04 12:11 AM   #43 
                       - I will leave it to his fans to defend the insult to him  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-10-04 12:17 AM   #48 
                          - If it weren't so sad it would be funny.  mobuto   Mar-10-04 12:32 AM   #59 
                             - There are cosmetic and vocabulary differences, which are apparently  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-10-04 12:43 AM   #69 
                    - Hey,I'm voting for ham sandwich  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:12 AM   #44 
                    - Fine  mobuto   Mar-10-04 12:22 AM   #52 
                       - Didn't I just say I'm voting for ham sandwich?  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:33 AM   #60 
                          - 20 years? Maybe you're not really "better than some"  mobuto   Mar-10-04 12:39 AM   #66 
                             - er...ham sandwich would be Kerry  Forkboy   Mar-10-04 12:46 AM   #71 
                    - Ideas like election reform?  redqueen   Mar-10-04 12:55 PM   #88 
                       - When have Democrats fought against election reform?  mobuto   Mar-11-04 11:24 AM   #93 
           - you can whois the sites and demand that the webhosts take them down  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-09-04 11:30 PM   #32 
              - ???  mobuto   Mar-09-04 11:36 PM   #34 
                 - then why feel so threatened by the idea that people might go to the sites?  DuctapeFatwa   Mar-09-04 11:41 PM   #35 
                    - why do you feel it necessary to misrepresent mobuto's position?  Feanorcurufinwe   Mar-09-04 11:58 PM   #37 
     - He he he. They're at least as athoritarian as any right wing nut.  John_H   Mar-11-04 11:21 AM   #92 
  - When Kerry takes leftist and not just simple "liberal"stances  messiah   Mar-09-04 10:50 PM   #24 
  - I will begin at freetrade and go on from there on why kerry isnt Green  corporatewhore   Mar-09-04 10:59 PM   #25 
  - The Green Party is so chaotic, who knows what they might do.  w4rma   Mar-10-04 12:03 AM   #40 
  - Not just IWR  debsianben   Mar-10-04 12:10 AM   #42 
  - If they were cool they would but they are irrelevant so it doesn't matter  zulchzulu   Mar-10-04 12:18 AM   #49 
  - you may have voted green (which i doubt)  rdfi-defi   Mar-10-04 12:27 AM   #55 
  - eeyore, there is no chance whatsoever.  Iverson   Mar-10-04 04:23 AM   #82 
  - Zero  CWebster   Mar-10-04 05:58 AM   #84 
  - Whoa!  eeyore   Mar-10-04 09:56 AM   #85 
  - ZERO  WI_DEM   Mar-10-04 01:09 PM   #89 
  - About the same chance as getting  Citizen Kang   Mar-10-04 11:57 PM   #91 

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