leftofthedial
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Mon Feb-04-08 07:07 PM
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| can true believers please convince me? I was a Kucinich supporter. |
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Then I reluctantly became an Edwards supporter.
Now I'm looking at the two remaining candidates. Both are preferable to ANY repuke, but I sincerely believe both of them put corporate interests ahead of anything remotely similar to a progressive agenda or even a populist middle-class-centered agenda.
Clinton is a skillful politician, but I think she continues to lie about her complicity in the invasion of Iraq and the perpetuation of the occupation. I also think she is completely in the pockets of corporations. I think she is a divisive candidate and would motivate strong wingnut opposition in the GE.
Obama, on the other hand, strikes me as less than sincere. Plus, his positions seem fairly ill defined, so I'm not quite sure what he would do if elected. He does, however, possess a formidable oratorical ability to inspire audiences, using high-minded and inclusive rhetoric. But he never really talks turkey about how he will accomplish his promised "change." I believe he might well be as great a unifier as, say, either of the lamented Kennedy brothers. But then again, he might just be all talk and no action. Maybe a few inspirational speeches is the best we can ask for in the inexorable spiral down into a corporate oligopoly.
So, I'm leaning slightly toward Obama because:
a. my most liberal friends seem to support him
and
b. even though I don't really expect him to deliver any meaningful change, he at least might rekindle some sense of unity in this country.
WITHOUT IDIOTIC FLAMES, can anyone convince me if I'm right or wrong?
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| -can true believers please convince me? I was a Kucinich supporter. |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:07 PM |
#0 |
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Go for Obama. He's like a roulette wheel. |
BuyingThyme |
Feb-04-08 07:10 PM |
#1 |
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I do not see any substantive difference between them, policy-wise |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:14 PM |
#4 |
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I'm already tired of the way he speaks. He's quickly heading for a Kerryesque stereotype. |
BuyingThyme |
Feb-04-08 07:18 PM |
#14 |
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American Presidential Idol! |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 09:05 PM |
#66 |
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WATCH THIS, It is cool |
REDFISHBLUEFISH |
Feb-04-08 09:49 PM |
#73 |
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always bet on black |
rucky |
Feb-04-08 08:49 PM |
#62 |
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Cluster bombs |
riverwalker |
Feb-04-08 07:13 PM |
#2 |
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there are a few little nuggets of difference in their voting records |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:16 PM |
#7 |
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you supported JE after supporting Kucinich |
cali |
Feb-04-08 07:18 PM |
#17 |
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but he was at least honest in admitting past mistakes |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:21 PM |
#21 |
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Thank you, I wasn't aware of that |
MH1 |
Feb-04-08 07:16 PM |
#8 |
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Obama's list of endorsers span the spectrum |
FLDem5 |
Feb-04-08 07:14 PM |
#3 |
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leap forward to what? |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:16 PM |
#11 |
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the future, an new age of politics |
FLDem5 |
Feb-04-08 07:20 PM |
#19 |
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if I heard any good ideas, I could go for that |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:28 PM |
#32 |
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there is a great Q&A at boston.com that addresses a lot of that |
FLDem5 |
Feb-04-08 07:30 PM |
#36 |
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this is good: |
FLDem5 |
Feb-04-08 07:36 PM |
#43 |
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I agree that Obama is marginally more progressive than Clinton |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 08:44 PM |
#60 |
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Not just the political spectrum, but leading lights in many important progressive fields |
MH1 |
Feb-04-08 07:18 PM |
#15 |
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Several major progressives in my world (the music industry) have been Obamists |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:22 PM |
#24 |
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I think I know why, Obama is very vocal on this issue (music) and mentions it in stump speeches: |
FLDem5 |
Feb-04-08 07:33 PM |
#39 |
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another edge to Obama |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 08:30 PM |
#57 |
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The process of government |
MH1 |
Feb-04-08 07:35 PM |
#41 |
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personally, I think Clinton would actively OPPOSE real open government |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 08:31 PM |
#58 |
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Well |
MH1 |
Feb-04-08 08:59 PM |
#63 |
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I just don't think Obama really wants to change anything |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 09:27 PM |
#70 |
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Some reasons I support Obama |
MH1 |
Feb-04-08 07:14 PM |
#5 |
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thanks. I'll read tonight during work breaks |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:18 PM |
#16 |
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You're welcome, and thanks for reading |
MH1 |
Feb-04-08 07:20 PM |
#20 |
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Curious that McKibben doesn't mention Obama's environmental |
ozone_man |
Feb-04-08 07:29 PM |
#34 |
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Obama lifetime score: 96 (League of Conservation Voters) |
MH1 |
Feb-04-08 07:42 PM |
#53 |
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given that Bill would probably rate about a 10 from LCV, |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 08:27 PM |
#56 |
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SEND A MESSAGE: Vote Uncommitted |
no name no slogan |
Feb-04-08 07:15 PM |
#6 |
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that's the boat I'm in |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:24 PM |
#28 |
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I'm with you on this |
CONN |
Feb-04-08 09:08 PM |
#68 |
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Clinton, she's a work horse. Can't avoid important issues, like Obama has once you're President. |
goldcanyonaz |
Feb-04-08 07:16 PM |
#9 |
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they both have skipped plenty of big votes |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:25 PM |
#29 |
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Not true, his record is MUCH worse than hers is. |
goldcanyonaz |
Feb-04-08 07:26 PM |
#31 |
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well, she DID show up for the IWR |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:34 PM |
#40 |
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Go check both websites, Hillary and Obama hawks just going to try to convert you. |
REDFISHBLUEFISH |
Feb-04-08 07:16 PM |
#10 |
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there's the rub |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:26 PM |
#30 |
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Here's my post explaining why I decided on Obama: |
NC_Nurse |
Feb-04-08 07:17 PM |
#12 |
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thanks. |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:28 PM |
#33 |
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You've got some things right. |
ErnestoG |
Feb-04-08 07:17 PM |
#13 |
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Oh Really? Take a look at THIS: |
neutron |
Feb-04-08 07:19 PM |
#18 |
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clinton is clearly more of a hawk |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:32 PM |
#38 |
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I'll take nuclear power over nuclear weapons any day |
MH1 |
Feb-04-08 07:37 PM |
#46 |
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We are from the same place and at the same place. |
sellitman |
Feb-04-08 07:22 PM |
#22 |
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of course, you could also go for Obama because the white people |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:35 PM |
#42 |
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I wonder |
sellitman |
Feb-04-08 07:41 PM |
#51 |
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they are ecstatic |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 09:04 PM |
#64 |
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Watch the townhall with Hillary |
Jim4Wes |
Feb-04-08 07:22 PM |
#23 |
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thanks |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:36 PM |
#45 |
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I followed the exact same path you did. Strong Kucinich supporter, leaning |
John Q. Citizen |
Feb-04-08 07:22 PM |
#25 |
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Vote for CHANGE! |
Stephanie |
Feb-04-08 07:24 PM |
#26 |
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Taking points won't win my vote. |
sellitman |
Feb-04-08 07:31 PM |
#37 |
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Clinton's self-serving IWR vote is not a talking point |
Stephanie |
Feb-04-08 07:39 PM |
#48 |
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You could vote for Gravel... he might still be on the ballot somewhere (nt) |
cgrindley |
Feb-04-08 07:24 PM |
#27 |
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hell, I could just write my own name in . . . |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:41 PM |
#49 |
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go for the non-hawk |
bambino |
Feb-04-08 07:29 PM |
#35 |
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I don't think either of them is a non-hawk |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:41 PM |
#52 |
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I too, am torn |
tigereye |
Feb-04-08 07:36 PM |
#44 |
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great and thoughtful response |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 07:43 PM |
#54 |
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thanks - I think there are lot of complex issues here |
tigereye |
Feb-04-08 08:05 PM |
#55 |
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it is a frustrating time |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 08:40 PM |
#59 |
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Go to both their websites |
FlyingSquirrel |
Feb-04-08 07:37 PM |
#47 |
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I've been to both websites |
leftofthedial |
Feb-04-08 08:48 PM |
#61 |
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If it's substantial you want.. |
FlyingSquirrel |
Feb-04-08 09:48 PM |
#72 |
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Maybe this will help! |
Zorra |
Feb-04-08 07:41 PM |
#50 |
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Barack has passed the largest ethics reorms in congress history drawn up by himself, this define him |
cooolandrew |
Feb-04-08 09:04 PM |
#65 |
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I don't seek to convince you. I support Clinton. I encourage you to vote as you see fit. |
mondo joe |
Feb-04-08 09:06 PM |
#67 |
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I am a DK fan. |
ZombieHorde |
Feb-04-08 09:24 PM |
#69 |
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Do whatever you want. Think for yourself. |
kurth |
Feb-04-08 09:28 PM |
#71 |