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can true believers please convince me? I was a Kucinich supporter. [View All]

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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 07:07 PM
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can true believers please convince me? I was a Kucinich supporter.
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Then I reluctantly became an Edwards supporter.

Now I'm looking at the two remaining candidates. Both are preferable to ANY repuke, but I sincerely believe both of them put corporate interests ahead of anything remotely similar to a progressive agenda or even a populist middle-class-centered agenda.

Clinton is a skillful politician, but I think she continues to lie about her complicity in the invasion of Iraq and the perpetuation of the occupation. I also think she is completely in the pockets of corporations. I think she is a divisive candidate and would motivate strong wingnut opposition in the GE.

Obama, on the other hand, strikes me as less than sincere. Plus, his positions seem fairly ill defined, so I'm not quite sure what he would do if elected. He does, however, possess a formidable oratorical ability to inspire audiences, using high-minded and inclusive rhetoric. But he never really talks turkey about how he will accomplish his promised "change." I believe he might well be as great a unifier as, say, either of the lamented Kennedy brothers. But then again, he might just be all talk and no action. Maybe a few inspirational speeches is the best we can ask for in the inexorable spiral down into a corporate oligopoly.

So, I'm leaning slightly toward Obama because:

a. my most liberal friends seem to support him


b. even though I don't really expect him to deliver any meaningful change, he at least might rekindle some sense of unity in this country.

WITHOUT IDIOTIC FLAMES, can anyone convince me if I'm right or wrong?

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  -can true believers please convince me? I was a Kucinich supporter. leftofthedial  Feb-04-08 07:07 PM   #0 
  - Go for Obama. He's like a roulette wheel.  BuyingThyme   Feb-04-08 07:10 PM   #1 
  - I do not see any substantive difference between them, policy-wise  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:14 PM   #4 
  - I'm already tired of the way he speaks. He's quickly heading for a Kerryesque stereotype.  BuyingThyme   Feb-04-08 07:18 PM   #14 
     - American Presidential Idol!  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 09:05 PM   #66 
        - WATCH THIS, It is cool  REDFISHBLUEFISH   Feb-04-08 09:49 PM   #73 
  - always bet on black  rucky   Feb-04-08 08:49 PM   #62 
  - Cluster bombs  riverwalker   Feb-04-08 07:13 PM   #2 
  - there are a few little nuggets of difference in their voting records  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:16 PM   #7 
  - you supported JE after supporting Kucinich  cali   Feb-04-08 07:18 PM   #17 
     - but he was at least honest in admitting past mistakes  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:21 PM   #21 
  - Thank you, I wasn't aware of that  MH1   Feb-04-08 07:16 PM   #8 
  - Obama's list of endorsers span the spectrum  FLDem5   Feb-04-08 07:14 PM   #3 
  - leap forward to what?  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:16 PM   #11 
  - the future, an new age of politics  FLDem5   Feb-04-08 07:20 PM   #19 
     - if I heard any good ideas, I could go for that  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:28 PM   #32 
        - there is a great Q&A at that addresses a lot of that  FLDem5   Feb-04-08 07:30 PM   #36 
        - this is good:  FLDem5   Feb-04-08 07:36 PM   #43 
           - I agree that Obama is marginally more progressive than Clinton  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 08:44 PM   #60 
  - Not just the political spectrum, but leading lights in many important progressive fields  MH1   Feb-04-08 07:18 PM   #15 
     - Several major progressives in my world (the music industry) have been Obamists  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:22 PM   #24 
        - I think I know why, Obama is very vocal on this issue (music) and mentions it in stump speeches:  FLDem5   Feb-04-08 07:33 PM   #39 
        - another edge to Obama  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 08:30 PM   #57 
        - The process of government  MH1   Feb-04-08 07:35 PM   #41 
           - personally, I think Clinton would actively OPPOSE real open government  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 08:31 PM   #58 
              - Well  MH1   Feb-04-08 08:59 PM   #63 
                 - I just don't think Obama really wants to change anything  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 09:27 PM   #70 
  - Some reasons I support Obama  MH1   Feb-04-08 07:14 PM   #5 
  - thanks. I'll read tonight during work breaks  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:18 PM   #16 
  - You're welcome, and thanks for reading  MH1   Feb-04-08 07:20 PM   #20 
  - Curious that McKibben doesn't mention Obama's environmental  ozone_man   Feb-04-08 07:29 PM   #34 
     - Obama lifetime score: 96 (League of Conservation Voters)  MH1   Feb-04-08 07:42 PM   #53 
        - given that Bill would probably rate about a 10 from LCV,  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 08:27 PM   #56 
  - SEND A MESSAGE: Vote Uncommitted  no name no slogan   Feb-04-08 07:15 PM   #6 
  - that's the boat I'm in  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:24 PM   #28 
  - I'm with you on this  CONN   Feb-04-08 09:08 PM   #68 
  - Clinton, she's a work horse. Can't avoid important issues, like Obama has once you're President.  goldcanyonaz   Feb-04-08 07:16 PM   #9 
  - they both have skipped plenty of big votes  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:25 PM   #29 
     - Not true, his record is MUCH worse than hers is.  goldcanyonaz   Feb-04-08 07:26 PM   #31 
        - well, she DID show up for the IWR  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:34 PM   #40 
  - Go check both websites, Hillary and Obama hawks just going to try to convert you.  REDFISHBLUEFISH   Feb-04-08 07:16 PM   #10 
  - there's the rub  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:26 PM   #30 
  - Here's my post explaining why I decided on Obama:  NC_Nurse   Feb-04-08 07:17 PM   #12 
  - thanks.  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:28 PM   #33 
  - You've got some things right.  ErnestoG   Feb-04-08 07:17 PM   #13 
  - Oh Really? Take a look at THIS:  neutron   Feb-04-08 07:19 PM   #18 
     - clinton is clearly more of a hawk  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:32 PM   #38 
        - I'll take nuclear power over nuclear weapons any day  MH1   Feb-04-08 07:37 PM   #46 
  - We are from the same place and at the same place.  sellitman   Feb-04-08 07:22 PM   #22 
  - of course, you could also go for Obama because the white people  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:35 PM   #42 
     - I wonder  sellitman   Feb-04-08 07:41 PM   #51 
        - they are ecstatic  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 09:04 PM   #64 
  - Watch the townhall with Hillary  Jim4Wes   Feb-04-08 07:22 PM   #23 
  - thanks  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:36 PM   #45 
  - I followed the exact same path you did. Strong Kucinich supporter, leaning  John Q. Citizen   Feb-04-08 07:22 PM   #25 
  - Vote for CHANGE!  Stephanie   Feb-04-08 07:24 PM   #26 
  - Taking points won't win my vote.  sellitman   Feb-04-08 07:31 PM   #37 
     - Clinton's self-serving IWR vote is not a talking point  Stephanie   Feb-04-08 07:39 PM   #48 
  - You could vote for Gravel... he might still be on the ballot somewhere (nt)  cgrindley   Feb-04-08 07:24 PM   #27 
  - hell, I could just write my own name in . . .  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:41 PM   #49 
  - go for the non-hawk  bambino   Feb-04-08 07:29 PM   #35 
  - I don't think either of them is a non-hawk  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:41 PM   #52 
  - I too, am torn  tigereye   Feb-04-08 07:36 PM   #44 
  - great and thoughtful response  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 07:43 PM   #54 
     - thanks - I think there are lot of complex issues here  tigereye   Feb-04-08 08:05 PM   #55 
        - it is a frustrating time  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 08:40 PM   #59 
  - Go to both their websites  FlyingSquirrel   Feb-04-08 07:37 PM   #47 
  - I've been to both websites  leftofthedial   Feb-04-08 08:48 PM   #61 
     - If it's substantial you want..  FlyingSquirrel   Feb-04-08 09:48 PM   #72 
  - Maybe this will help!  Zorra   Feb-04-08 07:41 PM   #50 
  - Barack has passed the largest ethics reorms in congress history drawn up by himself, this define him  cooolandrew   Feb-04-08 09:04 PM   #65 
  - I don't seek to convince you. I support Clinton. I encourage you to vote as you see fit.  mondo joe   Feb-04-08 09:06 PM   #67 
  - I am a DK fan.  ZombieHorde   Feb-04-08 09:24 PM   #69 
  - Do whatever you want. Think for yourself.  kurth   Feb-04-08 09:28 PM   #71 

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