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Reply #105: But they weren't really IN his party [View All]

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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
105. But they weren't really IN his party
He was the Democratic wing of the party, remember? The rest of them weren't fit for the name.

Yes, the media was a major factor, but he also did himself in.

Please don't recount ethical lapses, because Dean lied deliberately and recklessly, and ducked responding when called to account. The Senators DID NOT VOTE FOR THE BUSH TAX CUTS. He knew this, and he kept saying it. He wasn't the only one to talk about race in front of white audiences, and when confronted, said that he couldn't be held responsible for knowing what everyone else had said. When the flag flap came up, he said that he'd said it before, and when asked, Edwards said that he hadn't heard of that statement or he would have commented on it. Dean spat back that he should be aware of everything he'd said. Recap: I can flatly state that I know what they say, yet don't have to really know, and they have to hang on my every word.

When the status of his campaign changed, he did not. He should have given up the harsh attacks on opponents; it's acceptable when you're the underdog, but it's bullying when you're the front-runner.

John Kerry is not a Republican. When he said that, he went from reckless and charmingly extemporaneous to unstable and resoundingly unethical.

I saw an interview of a kid who had rebounded and was working for another campaign; his line was: "the movement was better than the candidate." Well said.

Yeah, he got a raw deal, but he dealt VERY RAW HIMSELF, and some of that's karmic. You don't walk into the room calling everyone else an asshole cowardly turncoat and not expect to get hammered.

Times change, and candidates have to be able to stay true to their message while moderating tactics. If all he had said had been true, it would have been a different matter, but he was most foul most often. So don't blame all the evils of the media and machine politicians, when all's said and done, he did himself in.
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  -A plea to my fellow Deaniacs... Evil_Dewers  Feb-26-04 04:42 PM   #0 
  - Great post  quinnox   Feb-26-04 04:46 PM   #1 
  - thank you  exotrip   Feb-26-04 04:46 PM   #2 
  - I agree, the race would have been a lot different  liberalhistorian   Feb-26-04 04:57 PM   #13 
  - Well put  wryter2000   Feb-26-04 04:50 PM   #3 
  - After the primary?  RUMMYisFROSTED   Feb-26-04 05:46 PM   #63 
  - agreed  Mass_Liberal   Feb-26-04 04:50 PM   #4 
  - I could live with a loss -- I can't live with him being taken down  Eloriel   Feb-26-04 07:05 PM   #85 
     - Eloriel I am with you  Voltaire   Feb-26-04 09:19 PM   #96 
     - Me To!  Upfront   Feb-27-04 12:17 PM   #149 
     - But they weren't really IN his party  PurityOfEssence   Feb-26-04 10:26 PM   #105 
     - Eloriel I am with you 1000%.  dkf   Feb-27-04 03:39 AM   #118 
     - Me, too kids!  PassingFair   Feb-27-04 09:04 AM   #131 
     - Don't forget Kerry's investments in early primary states  CWebster   Feb-27-04 07:42 AM   #126 
     - This  liberalmike27   Feb-27-04 09:51 AM   #134 
     - Good post and I concur!!  INTELBYTES   Feb-27-04 10:29 AM   #138 
     - He was taken down by voters in every region of America.  John_H   Feb-27-04 01:03 PM   #154 
  - Oh yeah, this will go over just fine...  Baclava   Feb-26-04 04:51 PM   #5 
  - LOL!  liberalhistorian   Feb-26-04 04:59 PM   #16 
     - Yeah we all took lessons from gracious posts like the one I am responding  dsc   Feb-26-04 10:56 PM   #106 
  - Not until the primaries are over  JVS   Feb-26-04 04:51 PM   #6 
  - No true Dean supporter would say this:  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 04:52 PM   #7 
  - Maybe you could fill us in on the details?  molly   Feb-26-04 04:55 PM   #9 
  - I think if one does not tow the victimhood line  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:00 PM   #17 
     - Well I'm certainly not a victim. But my support for the movement  janx   Feb-26-04 05:04 PM   #22 
     - Oh, come on, Will, the victim thing is old now.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:05 PM   #23 
     - Apparently not  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:07 PM   #24 
        - Ah, just read my post below this one.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:12 PM   #28 
        - I never forget when I say accurate things  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:31 PM   #41 
           - How are they different?  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:34 PM   #43 
           - A regular martyr has a whole ass  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:35 PM   #46 
           - Ha Ha! He just asked who this guy is.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:39 PM   #52 
              - Tell everyone I said hi  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:41 PM   #55 
           - So am I--and I only know you from online correspondence!  janx   Feb-26-04 05:47 PM   #65 
              - Chuckle. One of daughters will get a wee bit upset, but will laugh.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:50 PM   #68 
                 - God I hope so--  janx   Feb-26-04 05:57 PM   #71 
                 - well don't let her get too upset  WI_DEM   Feb-27-04 09:51 AM   #135 
           - Same here...  JDWalley   Feb-26-04 11:58 PM   #113 
        - Remember  Nederland   Feb-26-04 05:25 PM   #39 
        - I saw it coming a mile away  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:31 PM   #40 
        - Gee, so are you saying that those of us new to politics are unwelcome?  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 05:36 PM   #47 
           - That's exactly what I am saying  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:39 PM   #54 
           - People don't pay that much attention to your words, Will.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:42 PM   #56 
           - Then you perpetuate the stereotype of women being...  jchild   Feb-27-04 04:52 PM   #174 
              - No, actually when Will calls people names a lot......  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 05:07 PM   #179 
              - Don't be sad for me.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 05:08 PM   #180 
           - Someone like ME?  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 05:43 PM   #57 
           - Let's talk pronouns  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:45 PM   #61 
           - thanks for the clarification, though your snide tone in this thread  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 05:52 PM   #69 
           - I love it when you talk grammer! But seriously,  littlejoe   Feb-26-04 07:13 PM   #87 
           - I wonder, Will, is it really difficult for you to buy hats lately?  Castilleja   Feb-27-04 01:51 AM   #116 
           - Yes, Lisa, he would discount us in a heartbeat.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:45 PM   #62 
           - for the same reason as the republicans  Expat Sue   Feb-26-04 08:40 PM   #94 
              - Welcome to DU, Expat Sue  mdmc   Feb-27-04 10:01 PM   #207 
           - *thunk-sound of Will's point whacking DS upside the head* Well now!!  diamondsoul   Feb-26-04 06:22 PM   #74 
           - You're gonna have a very long wait in some cases  Eloriel   Feb-26-04 07:55 PM   #93 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-26-04 10:24 PM   #103 
           - I sense more than a little victimhood in your own tone, Will.  edzontar   Feb-27-04 11:16 AM   #142 
           - Nice av! nt  WesDem   Feb-26-04 06:46 PM   #78 
        - Don't talk behind our backs please.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:36 PM   #49 
           - Not talking behind your backs  Nederland   Feb-26-04 05:49 PM   #66 
        - I guess Christ was the ultimate victim  CWebster   Feb-27-04 07:47 AM   #127 
        - I see no victims here...  PassingFair   Feb-27-04 09:08 AM   #132 
     - And another thing Mr. Pitt.......I feel something more from his campaign.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:11 PM   #27 
     - The hostility oozing from the pen of Pitt and the rest  edzontar   Feb-27-04 07:22 AM   #121 
     - Excuse me, Sir William  Sinistrous   Feb-26-04 05:37 PM   #50 
     - Disagree...I'm a PROUD DEAN DEMOCRAT for KERRY now  absyntheNsugar   Feb-26-04 07:08 PM   #86 
     - Why do you have a picture of a very crappy brand of absinthe...  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 08:08 AM   #128 
     - Dean Democrat -- what, for all of about 5 minutes?  Eloriel   Feb-27-04 04:58 PM   #177 
        - Dean Democrat -- what, for all of about 5 minutes  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:42 PM   #192 
     - Abusers and their enablers  Eloriel   Feb-26-04 07:21 PM   #90 
     - There's a difference between being a victim and playing one.  HopeLives   Feb-26-04 09:54 PM   #97 
     - I think if one isn't a vacuous sell out  Cheswick   Feb-26-04 10:10 PM   #99 
     - Wow  Ramsey   Feb-26-04 10:15 PM   #101 
     - yeah, I was surprised too.  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 11:00 PM   #107 
     - I love sweeping generalizations  dave29   Feb-26-04 11:19 PM   #109 
     - what does that mean?  Kira   Feb-27-04 07:14 AM   #120 
     - Will, did the prevailing winds blow you back to Kerry's camp after  Larkspur   Feb-27-04 07:40 AM   #125 
     - Maybe off topic, but still to a point of grammar  Walt Starr   Feb-27-04 03:20 PM   #159 
  - No, there wasn't.  liberalhistorian   Feb-26-04 05:01 PM   #19 
  - No, you are very wrong.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:14 PM   #29 
     - I can't wait to see  Anwen   Feb-26-04 05:17 PM   #30 
        - No, Anwen, they will blame Dean.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:19 PM   #32 
           - LOL!  Anwen   Feb-26-04 05:23 PM   #36 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-26-04 05:18 PM   #31 
  - I am a "haughty little prick"?  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:21 PM   #35 
  - Females can act like pricks...  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 08:17 AM   #129 
     - LOL ! You say you are NOT calling me the "C" word?  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 10:09 AM   #137 
        - madfloridian  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 11:10 AM   #141 
           - "jerks for dean?" "hope for assassinations?"  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 11:37 AM   #143 
              - I do not have a clue what is making you so angry...  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 12:08 PM   #147 
                 - Not humility, pride.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 12:16 PM   #148 
                    - Would you join me in saying that good behavior should be expected from all  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 12:39 PM   #150 
  - This  liberalmike27   Feb-27-04 10:08 AM   #136 
  - This #31post cements the fact that this person never supported Dean at all  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 10:30 AM   #139 
     - Ya know  indigo32   Feb-27-04 05:42 PM   #194 
        - indigo  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:49 PM   #197 
           - OK  indigo32   Feb-27-04 06:02 PM   #200 
  - Attention moderator...  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 03:23 PM   #160 
  - Hmmm  MAlibdem   Feb-26-04 06:30 PM   # 
  - This Dean supporter never called them that.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 06:39 PM   #76 
  - Hmmm  MAlibdem   Feb-26-04 06:30 PM   #75 
  - I think the original message summed up my feelings nicely.  littlejoe   Feb-26-04 07:03 PM   #83 
  - Dean was not a victim, I am not a victim  quaker bill   Feb-27-04 08:44 PM   #204 
  - You are one Deaniac that gets my vote!  molly   Feb-26-04 04:54 PM   #8 
  - Well Said, Mr. Dewers  The Magistrate   Feb-26-04 04:55 PM   #10 
  - I'm not giving up my vote yet. I still will vote for Dean in  lastknowngood   Feb-26-04 04:55 PM   #11 
  - Bye bye!  littlejoe   Feb-26-04 07:04 PM   #84 
  - Why don't we do one better than leave the party...  dkf   Feb-27-04 04:26 AM   #119 
  - I appreciate the sentiment--  janx   Feb-26-04 04:56 PM   #12 
  - INCOMING! n/t  progressiverealist   Feb-26-04 04:57 PM   #14 
  - as long as the sig line doesn't bash another candidate...  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 04:58 PM   #15 
  - I am so appreciative of this post, I can't begin to tell you.  WilliamPitt   Feb-26-04 05:01 PM   #18 
  - Bitter? Moi?  NoPasaran   Feb-26-04 05:03 PM   #20 
  - Obviously, you missed the entire message of the campaign.  EXE619K   Feb-26-04 05:04 PM   #21 
  - DFA is not, and was not about "beating Bush".  sangha   Feb-26-04 05:20 PM   #34 
  - You're right.  EXE619K   Feb-26-04 05:25 PM   #38 
     - Candidates who don't believe in winning elections,  sangha   Feb-26-04 05:35 PM   #45 
  - Actually, I have to disagree. It was very much about beating  janx   Feb-26-04 05:36 PM   #48 
  - Actually, you both have a point  sangha   Feb-26-04 05:39 PM   #53 
  - Was the Camapign about beating Bush only from the start?  Evil_Dewers   Feb-26-04 05:44 PM   #58 
  - Um...just wondering  Anwen   Feb-26-04 05:08 PM   #25 
  - Still wondering................  Anwen   Feb-26-04 06:00 PM   #72 
  - Good question.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 06:44 PM   #77 
     - Thanks, madfloridian  Anwen   Feb-26-04 06:54 PM   #81 
  - Thank you  mitchum   Feb-26-04 05:08 PM   #26 
  - Poop  RetroLounge   Feb-26-04 05:20 PM   #33 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-26-04 05:54 PM   #70 
     - well said  lojasmo   Feb-26-04 07:46 PM   #92 
  - You have no clue that most of us will join you, do you?  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:24 PM   #37 
  - well said, thank you.  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 05:32 PM   #42 
  - Right, and treating us with contempt is divisive.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:38 PM   #51 
  - When was it unified? The only unity that ever existed on DU  HopeLives   Feb-26-04 06:47 PM   #79 
     - that's what I meant... the unity of ABB... for a short while,  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 10:04 PM   #98 
  - The "prick"comment is about when Dean was on top.  mydawgmax   Feb-26-04 07:20 PM   #89 
  - They only bring discredit to themselves and defeat to their cause  edzontar   Feb-27-04 07:25 AM   #122 
  - Well said  Uzybone   Feb-26-04 05:34 PM   #44 
  - I changed my avatar...  Duder   Feb-26-04 05:45 PM   #59 
  - Hoot, Duder. Good one.  madfloridian   Feb-26-04 05:47 PM   #64 
     - I'm probably one of those haughty pricks.  Duder   Feb-26-04 05:49 PM   #67 
  - Ain't gonna happen. We are resolute! nt  BullGooseLoony   Feb-26-04 05:45 PM   #60 
  - Good for you. You're a grown up.  katieforeman   Feb-26-04 06:02 PM   #73 
  - Since I wont have the opportunity to vote for Dean in November I intend  mzmolly   Feb-26-04 06:51 PM   #80 
  - As a Kerry supporter I thank you!  littlejoe   Feb-26-04 07:01 PM   #82 
  - I didn't approve of some of the attacks  La_Serpiente   Feb-26-04 07:19 PM   #88 
  - How many posts  lojasmo   Feb-26-04 07:29 PM   #91 
  - 82 posts!!!  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 08:34 AM   #130 
     - and you call yourself  maxanne   Feb-27-04 02:26 PM   #155 
        - a former Dean supporter. For shame  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 03:14 PM   #158 
           - a shame  maxanne   Feb-27-04 03:57 PM   #163 
              - that pesky free speech thing allows people to voice their opinions.  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:47 PM   #196 
  - yah okay  Cheswick   Feb-26-04 08:43 PM   #95 
  - great post. i agree...  progressivebebe   Feb-26-04 10:13 PM   #100 
  - Excuse me?  Ramsey   Feb-26-04 10:21 PM   #102 
  - Thank you!!!  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 11:13 PM   #108 
  - I gave up on Dean in early January.  JHBowden   Feb-26-04 10:24 PM   #104 
  - It's a bit scary to venture an opinion here...  Zookeeper   Feb-26-04 11:43 PM   #110 
     - Hi Zookeeper!!! Welcome to DU!!!!  Lisa0825   Feb-26-04 11:52 PM   #112 
     - Thanks for the greeting! :)  Zookeeper   Feb-27-04 05:24 PM   #186 
     - Welcome to DU from this not so young and not idealist person.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 12:29 AM   #114 
     - Thanks for the welcome...  Zookeeper   Feb-27-04 11:08 AM   #140 
     - I have spent hours writing and calling about the grave threat you mention.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 11:44 AM   #144 
        - I can't argue with you on any of those points!  Zookeeper   Feb-27-04 12:04 PM   #145 
     - After November election when we defeat Bush, we should all get  jansu   Feb-27-04 12:55 PM   #153 
     - I am over 50, voted for Dean and until 2000 never voted for either  jansu   Feb-27-04 12:46 PM   #151 
        - I'm in a Super Tuesday state...  Zookeeper   Feb-27-04 05:20 PM   #184 
           - In swing states it is different.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 05:42 PM   #193 
              - I have no idea what the party establishment is predicting here.  Zookeeper   Feb-27-04 07:39 PM   #202 
                 - Originally, only Clark and Dean were viable here.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 08:38 PM   #203 
                    - Do you think Dean should have spent more...  Zookeeper   Feb-27-04 08:47 PM   #205 
  - Sorry...  JDWalley   Feb-26-04 11:50 PM   #111 
  - In his speech tonight he said these things.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 12:32 AM   #115 
     - That's for future primaries...  JDWalley   Feb-27-04 02:23 AM   #117 
  - Here is a clue  CWebster   Feb-27-04 07:36 AM   #123 
  - I'm keeping my Dean bumper stickers on and am still voting for him on  Larkspur   Feb-27-04 07:37 AM   #124 
  - Egotistical ?  hippiechick   Feb-27-04 09:18 AM   #133 
  - Wow! You summed it up well for many of us with that reply!  INTELBYTES   Feb-27-04 12:06 PM   #146 
  - My sticker is staying until it fades away...as a reminder to all of what  MrsGrumpy   Feb-27-04 12:54 PM   #152 
  - Mine too, Ms. G. It'll stay on my Jeep until the Jeep itself  janx   Feb-27-04 02:30 PM   #156 
     - A toast to you janx!  MrsGrumpy   Feb-27-04 08:53 PM   #206 
  - I absolutely  maxanne   Feb-27-04 03:11 PM   #157 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-27-04 03:48 PM   #161 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Feb-27-04 03:56 PM   #162 
     - A lot of those pics were at Free Republic  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 04:13 PM   #165 
     - I used none of those words?? You used them.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 04:16 PM   #167 
        - I used none of those words?? You used them. Good gracious.  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 04:38 PM   #170 
           - You really need to calm down.  madfloridian   Feb-27-04 05:11 PM   #182 
              - You are just too angry. That is not the kind of anger that is healthy.  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:32 PM   #189 
                 - "I know you are but what am I?"  hippiechick   Feb-27-04 05:45 PM   #195 
                    - Jayzus, grow UP already ....  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:53 PM   #198 
     - Those pictures were all over the internet...  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 04:15 PM   #166 
     - everyone who  maxanne   Feb-27-04 04:03 PM   #164 
        - everyone who disagrees with you is crazy  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 04:25 PM   #168 
           - if you were really  maxanne   Feb-27-04 04:34 PM   #169 
           - sexist, demeaning terms  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 04:49 PM   #172 
              - since I haven't mentioned  maxanne   Feb-27-04 04:53 PM   #175 
                 - A Lewinsky, eh? I didn't know the inflatibles could do that these days.  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:10 PM   #181 
                    - oh,  maxanne   Feb-27-04 05:21 PM   #185 
                       - and I thought you used to be a Dean supporter??  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:30 PM   #188 
                          - funny  maxanne   Feb-27-04 05:32 PM   #190 
                             - a search of your posts in this section doesn't reveal a single one support  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:54 PM   #199 
                                - I made a simple  maxanne   Feb-27-04 10:19 PM   #208 
           - Okay "sweetheart"  lojasmo   Feb-27-04 04:46 PM   #171 
              - I drive a VW golf TDI  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:05 PM   #178 
              - You, in just this one thread, have been more vitreolic  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:16 PM   #183 
  - This is probably stating the obvious, but,....  Schmendrick54   Feb-27-04 04:51 PM   #173 
  - Schmendrick  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:27 PM   #187 
  - take it up with William Greider  dymaxia   Feb-27-04 04:53 PM   #176 
  - The Nation?  Evil_Dewers   Feb-27-04 05:36 PM   #191 
  - Love your "handle" and love those Pacers (and Colts)! eom  spooky3   Feb-27-04 06:14 PM   #201 
  - If it is any help, I once used this pic in my sig line  mdmc   Feb-27-04 11:03 PM   #209 
  - I'll agree with one point:  frustrated_lefty   Feb-27-04 11:14 PM   #210 
 

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