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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. weren't you arguing that fighting the good fight was a waste of time? no impact on congresss...
Edited on Sun Nov-04-07 06:53 PM by bettyellen
i believe i saw you post that upthread.
but now the pragmatists are going to do "everything the idealist does" .... somehow i don;t buy it.
you're certainly turning the meaning of idealist on it's head, in an attempt to co opt it.
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  -When it comes to politics, I prefer realism over fantasy. cali  Nov-04-07 10:20 AM   #0 
  - Product vs. Process  rucky   Nov-04-07 10:22 AM   #1 
  - I don't know what unreal things you're talking about.  cali   Nov-04-07 10:27 AM   #3 
  - the old discussion of ends vs means  rucky   Nov-04-07 12:45 PM   #34 
  - wrong place  rucky   Nov-04-07 12:44 PM   #33 
  - Very true. Change in civil societies comes slowly.  R_M   Nov-04-07 10:27 AM   #2 
  - It also matters in what arena you are being realistic...  Solon   Nov-04-07 10:29 AM   #4 
  - those are good points.  cali   Nov-04-07 10:31 AM   #6 
     - Another example would be the War on (Some) Drugs...  Solon   Nov-04-07 10:41 AM   #10 
     - Another example would be energy policy...  Solon   Nov-04-07 11:08 AM   #23 
  - Agree  WesDem   Nov-04-07 10:29 AM   #5 
  - then give it  cali   Nov-04-07 10:32 AM   #7 
     - Okay, did  WesDem   Nov-04-07 10:47 AM   #12 
  - On the other hand, people want to be able to choose between...  polichick   Nov-04-07 10:34 AM   #8 
  - Yes, well  cali   Nov-04-07 10:37 AM   #9 
     - Currently, it's too hard to tell Dems from Republicans...  polichick   Nov-04-07 10:46 AM   #11 
        - sorry, I'm not big on the performance of Congress, but  cali   Nov-04-07 10:50 AM   #14 
           - Sad that you think it's acceptable for ANY Dems to act as...  polichick   Nov-04-07 10:55 AM   #17 
              - I didn't say that, and I'm sure you know that. How sad that you're  cali   Nov-04-07 11:04 AM   #21 
                 - I think you should read my responses more carefully...  polichick   Nov-04-07 11:09 AM   #24 
  - The only quibble I have is how we define 'practical'.  riqster   Nov-04-07 10:49 AM   #13 
  - Sure, I didn't mean to suggest that we shouldn't strive  cali   Nov-04-07 10:52 AM   #15 
     - I just wanted to make it explicit. nt  riqster   Nov-04-07 11:02 AM   #20 
     - In politics, as in any negotiation, you always ask for more than you think you can get.  John Q. Citizen   Nov-04-07 01:20 PM   #42 
  - It's really a matter of degree -- and pragmatism vs. inertia  Armstead   Nov-04-07 10:53 AM   #16 
  - You seem to have an unusual defiinition of pragamatism. n/t  cali   Nov-04-07 11:05 AM   #22 
     - No I am looking for a real definition of pragmatism  Armstead   Nov-04-07 11:14 AM   #26 
        - you have a much better grasp on reality than the OP does....  bettyellen   Nov-04-07 03:13 PM   #55 
  - Agreed, but the far more important question isi  ruggerson   Nov-04-07 10:55 AM   #18 
  - Behind the scenes, DK works to compromise  riqster   Nov-04-07 11:01 AM   #19 
     - It behooves many of us  ruggerson   Nov-04-07 11:13 AM   #25 
        - One has to also question what our candidates actually want.? I think a lot  John Q. Citizen   Nov-04-07 01:31 PM   #46 
  - watch Bernie Sanders explain this to an impeachment advocate  Enrique   Nov-04-07 11:21 AM   #27 
  - heh. I don't need to.  cali   Nov-04-07 11:33 AM   #28 
  - While your observations may have been true  zalinda   Nov-04-07 11:35 AM   #29 
  - A few points: Who said anything about Clinton being a savior?  cali   Nov-04-07 11:58 AM   #31 
  - Just a reminder  zalinda   Nov-04-07 12:22 PM   #32 
     - another reminder: that was one point among several  cali   Nov-04-07 12:50 PM   #36 
  - LBJ transformed people out of poverty in one term. He made a huge impact on  John Q. Citizen   Nov-04-07 01:34 PM   #47 
  - These are unique times.....  Jade Fox   Nov-04-07 11:38 AM   #30 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-04-07 12:46 PM   #35 
  - Kicked and recommended. NT  TheWraith   Nov-04-07 12:58 PM   #37 
  - I agree, but it's all a question of where one draws the various lines  PurityOfEssence   Nov-04-07 01:03 PM   #38 
  - true enough.  cali   Nov-04-07 01:10 PM   #40 
     - Guilty as charged  PurityOfEssence   Nov-04-07 01:52 PM   #49 
        - We all do that at times. n/t  cali   Nov-04-07 02:35 PM   #52 
  - "Bloody revolution is not the answer to the problems we face."  MLFerrell   Nov-04-07 01:10 PM   #39 
  - OK, here's how I take it.  cali   Nov-04-07 01:13 PM   #41 
     - Advocating violence is against DU rules.  MLFerrell   Nov-04-07 01:26 PM   #43 
        - if you're afraid to be banned from DU  Enrique   Nov-04-07 01:28 PM   #44 
           - LOL!  cali   Nov-04-07 01:30 PM   #45 
           - A few questions:  MLFerrell   Nov-04-07 01:48 PM   #48 
              - I didn't say anything about you leading a revolution. I laughed  cali   Nov-04-07 02:34 PM   #51 
                 - I didn't reply to you.  MLFerrell   Nov-04-07 02:43 PM   #53 
                    - Sorry about that. n/t  cali   Nov-04-07 02:45 PM   #54 
  - Pragmatism is just idealism on a different time scale.  MGKrebs   Nov-04-07 02:17 PM   #50 
  - let me try again, since the subthread was deleted.  ulysses   Nov-04-07 03:22 PM   #56 
  - No. It doesn't.  cali   Nov-04-07 03:28 PM   #57 
     - but what do you consider reality, and who do you think  ulysses   Nov-04-07 03:31 PM   #58 
        - some political realities are listed in my OP  cali   Nov-04-07 03:45 PM   #59 
           - but if only elections have an impact on congressional leadership,  ulysses   Nov-04-07 04:02 PM   #60 
              - who said anything about blame?  cali   Nov-04-07 04:24 PM   #61 
                 - War that simple...  Niccolo_Macchiavelli   Nov-04-07 05:35 PM   #62 
                 - well, the corporations don't own my house  cali   Nov-04-07 06:27 PM   #64 
                 - I doubt it. The "system" is getting pretty good at identifying  MGKrebs   Nov-04-07 07:07 PM   #68 
                 - We need both.  MGKrebs   Nov-04-07 05:43 PM   #63 
                    - Well,  cali   Nov-04-07 06:30 PM   #65 
                       - weren't you arguing that fighting the good fight was a waste of time? no impact on congresss...  bettyellen   Nov-04-07 06:51 PM   #66 
                          - er, no. certainly not. and if you're going to make accusations  cali   Nov-04-07 07:03 PM   #67 
                             - you forgot POST 50 "Not rooted in reality: That activists can have an impact on the leadership"  bettyellen   Nov-04-07 07:30 PM   #69 
                                - or for the sake of all that's honest  cali   Nov-04-07 08:00 PM   #71 
                                   - fantasists believe that pragmatic people will do what activists do.  bettyellen   Nov-04-07 08:17 PM   #74 
  - Cali(fornia) Dreaming.  Bonobo   Nov-04-07 07:35 PM   #70 
  - lol  cali   Nov-04-07 08:09 PM   #72 
  - You only have one vote  penguin7   Nov-04-07 08:10 PM   #73 
  - A courageous post, cali! nt  DeepModem Mom   Nov-05-07 12:01 AM   #75 
  - Realistically, the Republicans are screwed.  Perry Logan   Nov-05-07 06:03 AM   #76 
  - How I love these little DU lectures; I read at least one a day!  kenzee13   Nov-05-07 07:11 AM   #77 
     - of course, my OP had nothing to do with  cali   Nov-05-07 07:26 AM   #78 

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