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Reply #53: When you have a divisive, pro-war candidate who plays the "Inevitability Card" by proxy... [View All]

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-13-07 02:57 PM
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53. When you have a divisive, pro-war candidate who plays the "Inevitability Card" by proxy... are going to get resistance. This is the primary season and this election cannot be any more important. To sit back and do nothing or be told to shut up for the sake of "inevitability" is not what being a Democrat is all about.

Plying the pedestrian notion that putting the Clinton dynasty under scrutiny is somehow off limits because it's considered "metamorphosing into republicans" simply proves that her candidacy is particularly bad for the Democratic party.

To sophmorically call someone who would dare put Clinton's continuingly opposing statements to her previous statements into scrutiny a "lurking freeper" is weak at best.

To defend one's other candidate against a rabid Clinton supporter who wants to spread lies is sincere dedication to the truth and setting the record straight.

Since Hillary Clinton wants to bring her husband Bill Clinton into the "package", there is certainly a lot that can be discussed about his record as President. You don't even have to mention the obvious stuff that put their own marriage's weakness on display.

Does American want family dynasties? Do Democrats want to give the Republicans the chance to empower their base with a Clinton X 2 nomination? Do we want to discuss her voting record on the war and recent votes on perhaps helping start the next war?

The discussion is not "becoming absurd". It is not "hatred". It is democracy.

I just got back from some grassroots work today for my preferred candidate, Barack Obama, and it's not my fault that at least a few dozen people made a point of telling me that they do not want Hillary Clinton as the nominee. I didn't ask them anything. They felt the need to let it be known. These are not "rapid freepers" or "lurking Republicans". They are mostly women and from I could tell very intelligent and current on the issues of the day.

Are they part of the "obsession" that was "once unique to the republican party"?

They want a choice for real change and they will make it known when they vote.

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  -On the Hillary obsession here at DU niceypoo  Oct-13-07 11:13 AM   #0 
  - Bingo  DemocratSinceBirth   Oct-13-07 11:18 AM   #1 
  - I'll happily recommend.  seasonedblue   Oct-13-07 11:20 AM   #2 
  - Unwittingly you've illustrated half the problem.  Forkboy   Oct-13-07 11:20 AM   #3 
  - I Think That's Called A Paradox  DemocratSinceBirth   Oct-13-07 11:24 AM   #5 
  - I don't care how many it is.  Forkboy   Oct-13-07 11:31 AM   #7 
  - "Results oriented thinking" - The logic doesn't have to make sense, it just has to advance the cause  iconocrastic   Oct-13-07 04:50 PM   #66 
  - Thank-you. I noticed that too.  robinlynne   Oct-13-07 08:09 PM   #88 
  - K & R  sufrommich   Oct-13-07 11:23 AM   #4 
  - Yep, we are eating our own.  kstewart33   Oct-13-07 11:30 AM   #6 
  - No  Generator   Oct-13-07 12:16 PM   #24 
     - You speak for me. well put.  robinlynne   Oct-13-07 08:12 PM   #90 
     - You nailed it  Armstead   Oct-14-07 08:15 AM   #120 
     - If she becomes our candidate...  George II   Oct-14-07 09:23 AM   #123 
     - Right on  peace frog   Oct-14-07 09:35 AM   #125 
     - Everyone has a right to their reasons & fears, but to me they sound silly -I liked peace & prosperiy  papau   Oct-14-07 10:49 AM   #132 
  - The only obsession with Hillary I see at DU  LWolf   Oct-13-07 11:31 AM   #8 
  - thanks for telling us the hillary slimers are actually supporters trying to rationalize :-) nt  msongs   Oct-13-07 11:37 AM   #9 
  - Reading comprehension is valuable. n/t  LWolf   Oct-13-07 12:18 PM   #26 
  - Unreal. n/t  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 11:39 AM   #11 
  - Calling Your Opponents "Pests" Who Need To Be Hit With A Flyswatter Is So Progressive  DemocratSinceBirth   Oct-13-07 11:57 AM   #16 
  - "trying to rationalize her to her critics"  sufrommich   Oct-13-07 11:40 AM   #12 
  - No, not at all.  LWolf   Oct-13-07 12:17 PM   #25 
     - I wholeheartedly acknowledge "expressing opposition"  sufrommich   Oct-13-07 12:29 PM   #30 
        - No.  LWolf   Oct-14-07 08:13 AM   #119 
  - Most supporters  seasonedblue   Oct-13-07 11:44 AM   #13 
  - That could be true.  LWolf   Oct-13-07 12:15 PM   #23 
  - Hillary probably has fewer "supporters" on DU than anybody  Kurt_and_Hunter   Oct-13-07 01:19 PM   #36 
     - I have no idea.  LWolf   Oct-13-07 02:19 PM   #45 
  - You didn't post also that the absolute swift boating of Hillary  Bitwit1234   Oct-13-07 11:37 AM   #10 
  - Obama bashers seem to get a free pass around here  ellacott   Oct-13-07 12:01 PM   #19 
  - I've had a weird reaction: the more irrational hate  OKNancy   Oct-13-07 11:47 AM   #14 
  - I agree Nancy.  sufrommich   Oct-13-07 11:54 AM   #15 
  - She's moved into my second place slot , in part,  wlucinda   Oct-13-07 11:58 AM   #17 
  - That how you reacted to the rage against Lieberman too?  KCabotDullesMarxIII   Oct-14-07 10:03 AM   #128 
  - FWIW, I used to be a HIllary supporter...  regnaD kciN   Oct-13-07 12:01 PM   #18 
  - That's the kind of post I give nasty responses to  creeksneakers2   Oct-13-07 12:58 PM   #34 
  - "Hill's Shills" by itself is highly offensive. Obama does not have  Bumblebee   Oct-13-07 01:36 PM   #38 
  - It's not sexism, it's rhymism  silverojo   Oct-14-07 03:07 AM   #114 
  - just because you have yet to see it, does not mean it is not happening  hfojvt   Oct-13-07 04:21 PM   #63 
  - Announcing endorsements  creeksneakers2   Oct-13-07 08:38 PM   #99 
     - it's not that far  hfojvt   Oct-13-07 09:00 PM   #103 
  - Precisely!  George II   Oct-14-07 09:35 AM   #126 
  - (mostly dedicated to the notion that the race is already over, ...  superkia   Oct-13-07 06:39 PM   #78 
  - We're Not Allowed To Call Out Individual Posters  DemocratSinceBirth   Oct-13-07 12:02 PM   #20 
  - I saw a thread last night that suggested Hillary planted the Edwards/Enquirer story  niceypoo   Oct-13-07 12:12 PM   #21 
     - That's What Rush Limbaugh Suggested On His Radio Show Firiday  DemocratSinceBirth   Oct-13-07 12:15 PM   #22 
  - I agree  Froward69   Oct-13-07 12:22 PM   #27 
  - Hatred is a very powerful, yet ultimately self-defeating  2rth2pwr   Oct-13-07 12:26 PM   #28 
  - She's Fair Game  DemocratSinceBirth   Oct-13-07 12:28 PM   #29 
     - Part of the problem may be that during non-election periods DU cultivates absolutism and fantasy  Kurt_and_Hunter   Oct-13-07 01:00 PM   #35 
        - Amazing  niceypoo   Oct-13-07 01:42 PM   #39 
        - Right on the nose!  seasonedblue   Oct-13-07 01:53 PM   #42 
        - You can always copy and paste it as a post of yours. No different than posting a blog entry you like  Kurt_and_Hunter   Oct-13-07 04:10 PM   #61 
           - So what?  Sparkly   Oct-13-07 06:41 PM   #79 
           - I would love to post that for you Kurt,  seasonedblue   Oct-13-07 08:04 PM   #86 
              - LOL  Sparkly   Oct-13-07 09:06 PM   #107 
        - I was attempting to say what you just  2rth2pwr   Oct-13-07 02:54 PM   #52 
        - You guys are so nice! I'm blushing.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Oct-13-07 04:12 PM   #62 
        - Very well said and insightful  incapsulated   Oct-13-07 03:00 PM   #54 
        - Thanks. Sorry for bailing on you on the Gore thing.  Kurt_and_Hunter   Oct-13-07 04:28 PM   #65 
           - hehe  incapsulated   Oct-13-07 04:59 PM   #68 
        - Someone pointed me to  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 05:01 PM   #69 
        - Great post!  creeksneakers2   Oct-13-07 06:28 PM   #76 
        - Excellent post!!!  Sparkly   Oct-13-07 06:32 PM   #77 
        - Wonderful n/t  lamprey   Oct-14-07 03:19 AM   #115 
        - Oh my goodness, is that substance?  WesDem   Oct-14-07 05:32 AM   #116 
        - You really should turn this into a thread.  sufrommich   Oct-14-07 08:12 AM   #118 
        - Good points - but "Falsehoods are better at defining a group" is not that logical - all the rest I  papau   Oct-14-07 11:13 AM   #134 
           - Falsehoods are not always malicious lies. Think of football fans...  Kurt_and_Hunter   Oct-14-07 11:49 AM   #139 
  - It's sad to see such strong hatred which was once -- rightfully so -- directed  Bumblebee   Oct-13-07 12:39 PM   #31 
  - Recommended.  JohnnyLib2   Oct-13-07 12:50 PM   #32 
  - My sentiments exactly!  beaconess   Oct-13-07 12:52 PM   #33 
  - I wish you would have also addressed the vile treatment  ncabot22   Oct-13-07 01:36 PM   #37 
  - They don't see that  ellacott   Oct-13-07 02:20 PM   #46 
     - What is the ratio of threads attacking Clinton to those attacking all other candidates combined?  niceypoo   Oct-13-07 02:35 PM   #49 
        - to me it doesn't seem that out of balance  ellacott   Oct-13-07 02:38 PM   #50 
        - So you believe all of the other candidates combined recieve the same vitriol as Clinton does alone?  niceypoo   Oct-13-07 02:40 PM   #51 
        - Please  ncabot22   Oct-13-07 04:25 PM   #64 
  - I'll take a shot at intellectual honesty.  Admiral Loinpresser   Oct-13-07 01:45 PM   #40 
  - FWIW,  Admiral Loinpresser   Oct-13-07 01:53 PM   #41 
  - Those are all legitamite reasons not to support her  incapsulated   Oct-13-07 02:02 PM   #44 
     - I agree  cuke   Oct-13-07 02:22 PM   #47 
  - I just have to speak up  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 05:19 PM   #71 
  - That dog won't hunt!  Admiral Loinpresser   Oct-13-07 07:49 PM   #83 
     - I'll give you an example that supports the dog  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 07:53 PM   #84 
     - Because of Bush's sky-high  Admiral Loinpresser   Oct-13-07 08:02 PM   #85 
        - I think she believed the UN  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 08:10 PM   #89 
           - Do you think she suspected bad faith by BushCo?  Admiral Loinpresser   Oct-13-07 08:16 PM   #93 
              - Its not just about the dishonesty  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 08:20 PM   #95 
                 - The military didn't get a vote.  Admiral Loinpresser   Oct-13-07 08:26 PM   #97 
                    - The roll out of the greated as liberators stuff was after the IWR IIRC  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 08:31 PM   #98 
                       - The 2000 election IS relevant.  Admiral Loinpresser   Oct-13-07 08:40 PM   #100 
                          - I missed the matter of public record  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 08:45 PM   #101 
                             - You've never heard of FelonGate?  Admiral Loinpresser   Oct-13-07 09:01 PM   #104 
                                - Great close, NOT.  Jim4Wes   Oct-13-07 09:06 PM   #106 
     - Even the Methodist church did a press release Aug 30, 2002 about * going to war w/iraq!  flyarm   Oct-13-07 11:22 PM   #109 
        - This would fall under  Jim4Wes   Oct-14-07 01:05 AM   #112 
           - The other point is that for the 45 days befor the IWR vote Bush was sending out word he did not need  papau   Oct-14-07 11:39 AM   #136 
              - bravo  Jim4Wes   Oct-14-07 11:43 AM   #138 
  - I'd like to recommend your post, Admiral  TheDoorbellRang   Oct-14-07 08:54 AM   #121 
  - 24 Years of rule by two families.  rucky   Oct-13-07 01:54 PM   #43 
  - Some people NEED CHANGE  sandnsea   Oct-13-07 02:32 PM   #48 
  - You mean like when Hillary fought and won to make Plan B available?  cuke   Oct-13-07 04:03 PM   #59 
     - Oh that's controversial  sandnsea   Oct-13-07 05:51 PM   #72 
        - Yes, Plan B is controversial  cuke   Oct-13-07 07:30 PM   #82 
           - It is not controversial  sandnsea   Oct-13-07 08:47 PM   #102 
              - Plan B is controversial  cuke   Oct-13-07 09:03 PM   #105 
  - When you have a divisive, pro-war candidate who plays the "Inevitability Card" by proxy...  zulchzulu   Oct-13-07 02:57 PM   #53 
  - The problems with Bill are not a new thing for some of us  PurityOfEssence   Oct-13-07 03:06 PM   #55 
  - It all boils down to rationality  niceypoo   Oct-13-07 03:27 PM   #56 
  - EXACTLY How I Feel... As A Liberal, I Voted For Bill Twice, But  ChiciB1   Oct-13-07 03:54 PM   #58 
  - Because The Rethuglicans Wanted Her To Attack Clinton In 00 And She Refused  DemocratSinceBirth   Oct-13-07 05:16 PM   #70 
  - I lived in AR in '87  sandnsea   Oct-13-07 05:59 PM   #74 
  - Repeating falsehoods convinces more people they are true  creeksneakers2   Oct-13-07 06:51 PM   #80 
     - The repukes always blames dems for what they do  cuke   Oct-13-07 08:12 PM   #91 
        - That is my feeling exactly  niceypoo   Oct-13-07 09:10 PM   #108 
  - That's funny, I was getting the same impression, only about Hillary's supporters  ginchinchili   Oct-13-07 03:37 PM   #57 
  - Maybe it's an anti money driven coronation obsession?  eridani   Oct-13-07 04:07 PM   #60 
  - So your argument is as follows:  niceypoo   Oct-13-07 04:51 PM   #67 
     - My point was that they attack her for being a LIBRUL.  eridani   Oct-14-07 12:33 AM   #110 
  - ./ ignore Hillary posts  L0oniX   Oct-13-07 05:57 PM   #73 
  - It will change after the primaries  surfermaw   Oct-13-07 06:15 PM   #75 
  - DUers aren't metamorphosing into republicans, they simply can see beyond her *act*  Imagevision   Oct-13-07 06:58 PM   #81 
  - the media bends over for the Clintons.  illinoisprogressive   Oct-13-07 08:09 PM   #87 
  - homophobic much?  cuke   Oct-13-07 08:14 PM   #92 
  - In Worship?  DrFunkenstein   Oct-13-07 08:19 PM   #94 
     - Worship?  cuke   Oct-13-07 08:21 PM   #96 
  - Only for this primary.  KaptBunnyPants   Oct-14-07 01:34 AM   #113 
  - DU is not a "community".  wiley   Oct-14-07 12:56 AM   #111 
  - Nothing recommends Hillary more than the cheesy criticisms leveled against her.  Perry Logan   Oct-14-07 06:04 AM   #117 
  - Great observations  George II   Oct-14-07 09:20 AM   #122 
  - Gore: "Politics requires tolerance for triviality, artifice, nonsense I have found in short supply."  RestoreGore   Oct-14-07 09:33 AM   #124 
  - As long as Hillary continues to be the r and media's choice  LibDemAlways   Oct-14-07 09:44 AM   #127 
  - The republicans want Hillary to be president?  niceypoo   Oct-14-07 10:13 AM   #129 
     - Or right wing radio,  sufrommich   Oct-14-07 10:22 AM   #130 
     - I should have differentiated between the lunatic fringe who  LibDemAlways   Oct-14-07 10:35 AM   #131 
        - Should they hate and fear her?  niceypoo   Oct-14-07 10:57 AM   #133 
        - Of course not. No reason to. She's part of the Washington  LibDemAlways   Oct-14-07 05:29 PM   #142 
        - insiders don't hate or fear her - Do you mean she would bring the nation back together? interesting  papau   Oct-14-07 11:42 AM   #137 
           - As long as Rush and the rest  LibDemAlways   Oct-14-07 05:31 PM   #143 
  - Thank you for your post.  TriMetFan   Oct-14-07 11:30 AM   #135 
  - What bothers me the most  City67   Oct-14-07 11:51 AM   #140 
     - Civility disappeared when Reagan took over  niceypoo   Oct-14-07 05:06 PM   #141 
        - Well this is the article I was talking about  City67   Oct-14-07 06:24 PM   #144 
           - Your link is exactly what I am talking about  niceypoo   Oct-14-07 07:01 PM   #145 

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