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Reply #84: The"dirt" has been out that when it is drudged out AGAIN it will be familiar,believable [View All]

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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #57
84. The"dirt" has been out that when it is drudged out AGAIN it will be familiar,believable
Of course the right wing is not going to vote Democratic anyway.

What I am talking about is the MODERATES who WILL decide the election.

And I am talking about being able to FRAME the debate during the campaign.

If Hillary is nominated, more than anyone else, the Reps will be able to frame the debate around all the old memes about Hillary that have been carefully planted for years. For a large part, they are quiet about them now, but once she would get the nomination, they would explode.

So most of our energies and time and money will be spent explaining away these memes instead of being able to present our campaign on our own terms and take our issues to the fore.

This is one of the ways Kerry was hurt. It would be even easier with Hillary simply because these memes have already been planted.

Saying she has been able to survive them is wishful thinking. She has never run for office nationally. She has only run as a Sentator in a solidly Democratic state.

I am really pessimistic about her chances in the general, and am not that optimistic about Obama's either, although I think he has a much better chance than Hillary.

Sorry, but I don't think Hillary's familiarity is going to make her stronger than Obama in the general.

I have a feeling that in 08 the voters are going to want something different. More than any of our candidates, Hillary represents going back to more of the same, and i am not associating her with Bush, but we have seen the Bushes mangle things, people liked Clinton I, but there were some struggles here. It is going to be a hard sell presenting Hillary as a fresh start. And that is what many voters are gonna want to see. It is ironic that they might find a fresh new start with another republican, but with enough advertising a republican could be presented as a fresh start better than hillary.

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  -One of Hillary's flip-flops finally hits the MSM... jenmito  Aug-10-07 06:30 PM   #0 
  - They're actually discussing her use of the word "girl."  graywarrior   Aug-10-07 06:31 PM   #1 
  - I know. Tweety seems to have a nightly segment only about Hillary...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 06:33 PM   #3 
  - tweety is only slightly less hostile to the clintons  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:51 PM   #14 
     - No wonder he praises her, names her as the "clear winner" and acts like she's the nominee...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 06:54 PM   #16 
        - good heavens  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:58 PM   #19 
           - Well, you said...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:06 PM   #23 
              - I concede this one to you. I quite honestly don't know what tweety may or may not desire  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:24 PM   #28 
                 - Thank you.  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:29 PM   #29 
                    - no problem.  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:33 PM   #32 
                       - As are Obama supporters...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:39 PM   #35 
                          - outstanding.  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:44 PM   #37 
                             - Deal.  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:50 PM   #42 
                                - I think  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:54 PM   #45 
                                   - Thanks...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:57 PM   #48 
  - personally, I thought that was an excellent touch.  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:33 PM   #4 
  - i think the difference . . .  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:31 PM   #2 
  - But she had to know she was going to be one...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 06:34 PM   #5 
  - "going to be" is different from "currently is".  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:38 PM   #7 
     - She was a Senator. And we all knew she'd be a candidate.  jenmito   Aug-10-07 06:39 PM   #8 
     - I think you fail to understand the difference  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:43 PM   #11 
        - Yes, I DO fail to understand the difference. A Senator is part of the government  jenmito   Aug-10-07 06:51 PM   #13 
           - a senator is 1/100th of 1/2 of 1/3rd of the national government  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:54 PM   #17 
              - Doesn't matter. Either her words matter before she became a candidate  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:01 PM   #20 
                 - oh, for heaven's sake. it absolutely matters.  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:21 PM   #27 
                    - She said it knowing she'd be a presidential candidate...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:36 PM   #34 
                       - once agagain, what you may be is very different from what you currently are  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:47 PM   #39 
                          - So when she said she'd meet with our enemies, that counted?  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:53 PM   #44 
                          - which enemies?  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:56 PM   #47 
                             - Iran, Syria, Cuba's leaders, etc. n/t  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:58 PM   #51 
                          - I'd like an explantation of just when Hillary's words can be taken seriously!  earthlover   Aug-11-07 09:15 AM   #83 
                             - Bump for a response...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:32 AM   #87 
                             - nearly missed this subthread  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 02:01 PM   #131 
                             - I think you will find  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 02:00 PM   #130 
                                - "years and years" Oh My God!  earthlover   Aug-12-07 09:56 PM   #165 
     - So all her 'experience' prior to her becoming a candidate doesn't matter either?  Debi   Aug-10-07 06:41 PM   #9 
        - why are there so many people here that insist  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:49 PM   #12 
        - Yup, and she'll energize the Repub. base like NO other candidate.  jenmito   Aug-10-07 06:53 PM   #15 
        - the rethuglican base will be energized no matter what  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:56 PM   #18 
        - It's true that SHE will energize the Repub. base more than any others...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:09 PM   #24 
           - first of all, I tend to dismiss anecdotal evidence  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:30 PM   #30 
              - That's ok...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:42 PM   #36 
                 - this is another difference of opinion we have  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:51 PM   #43 
                    - It sure is...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:56 PM   #46 
                       - he was pretty good in the IL debate  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 08:00 PM   #52 
                          - Thanks...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 08:02 PM   #55 
                             - he is impressive in his responses to the attacks on him lately  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 08:09 PM   #58 
                                - I think he'll do very well against them...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 08:49 PM   #63 
                                   - very much so.  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 09:29 PM   #72 
                                      - I gotta disagree...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 10:11 PM   #73 
                                         - I have to admit  hijinx87   Aug-11-07 12:01 AM   #76 
                                         - Yup...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:30 AM   #86 
        - so we should nominate someone the right-wing likes?  MonkeyFunk   Aug-10-07 07:30 PM   #31 
           - that was sort of my question, too n/t  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 07:33 PM   #33 
           - No. We should nominate someone who has good judgement and is, at the same time,  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:47 PM   #40 
              - The right-wing will attack  MonkeyFunk   Aug-10-07 07:58 PM   #49 
              - Of course they will...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 08:00 PM   #53 
                 - the "dirt" they have on Hillary  MonkeyFunk   Aug-10-07 08:08 PM   #57 
                 - Who says it's all been put out there?  jenmito   Aug-10-07 08:54 PM   #64 
                 - The"dirt" has been out that when it is drudged out AGAIN it will be familiar,believable  earthlover   Aug-11-07 09:37 AM   #84 
                 - what? vince foster?  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 08:12 PM   #59 
                 - vince foster for a start.....but try Ms Flip Flop on for size....  earthlover   Aug-12-07 09:59 PM   #166 
                 - I heard Rash Limbaugh  creeksneakers2   Aug-10-07 08:15 PM   #60 
                    - If it's false, he'll fight it.  jenmito   Aug-10-07 08:55 PM   #65 
                       - What planet are you from?  MonkeyFunk   Aug-10-07 08:57 PM   #68 
                          - I'm from earth...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 09:23 PM   #70 
                          - go easy, bro  hijinx87   Aug-11-07 12:03 AM   #77 
                          - Why THANKS, hijinx!  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:36 AM   #88 
                          - I'm watching the Iowa Repub. straw poll speeches...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 03:15 PM   #95 
              - yeah, he was against the war, but  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 08:06 PM   #56 
                 - I disagree...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 08:48 PM   #62 
                    - you have hit upon it exactly. you do that a lot, by the way.  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 08:55 PM   #66 
                    - Thanks (again)...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 09:22 PM   #69 
                       - name three prominent democrats  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 11:44 PM   #75 
                          - I can't. But Russ Feingold was thinking about it...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:39 AM   #89 
                          - Wellstone voted no, and he was in a tight race for re-election  earthlover   Aug-11-07 09:46 PM   #105 
                             - Ah...thanks for the info.  jenmito   Aug-11-07 09:52 PM   #108 
                          - So all of these Democrats are just smarter than Hill?  bvar22   Aug-11-07 10:12 PM   #113 
                             - But he asked..."...and are candidates for the nomination..."  jenmito   Aug-11-07 10:22 PM   #114 
                                - Yes. He limited the choices.  bvar22   Aug-11-07 10:27 PM   #116 
                                   - I do, too...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 10:29 PM   #117 
                                   - "limited" is a misleading verb. I simply choose to be consistent.  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 01:55 PM   #129 
                    - Right....also, Obama had constituents too....  earthlover   Aug-11-07 09:44 PM   #104 
                       - That's right...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 09:54 PM   #109 
                       - obama had ZERO national security responsibility  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 01:47 PM   #128 
                          - He still spoke out against it and NAILED it re: what the result of our invasion would be  jenmito   Aug-12-07 03:46 PM   #133 
                          - I dismiss it as irrelevant.  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 04:27 PM   #136 
                             - I really don't understand how you can dismiss it...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 06:31 PM   #139 
                                - he spoke out against it when no one nationally cared what he thought.  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 06:51 PM   #143 
                                   - But it was still what he believed and said...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 07:53 PM   #147 
                                      - honestly, jenmito  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 08:09 PM   #149 
                                         - If he ran for national office a year later, definitely...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 08:17 PM   #153 
                                         - no, it just doesn't matter  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 08:19 PM   #155 
                                         - It matters to me...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 08:36 PM   #160 
                                         - specious (yet effective) argument  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 08:56 PM   #162 
                                         - I accept the effective part...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 09:44 PM   #164 
                                         - I am a moderate. you got me!!  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 11:35 PM   #171 
                          - The Point is he got it right the first time. I do not want someone in office who can not make the  Ethelk2044   Aug-12-07 04:00 PM   #135 
                             - just for the sake of argument, is a single wrong decision automatically disqualifying?  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 04:28 PM   #137 
        - i agree, sometimes I wonder if I am on ahe DU board or a RW board when  rodeodance   Aug-10-07 08:01 PM   #54 
           - You said it.  seasonedblue   Aug-12-07 11:15 AM   #127 
              - defending hillary is actually  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 02:18 PM   #132 
                 - That's very true,  seasonedblue   Aug-12-07 06:45 PM   #141 
                    - her ADA LQ is 100%, last I checked.  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 06:53 PM   #144 
        - No. HRC can't put "I was married to the boss" on her resum.  ShortnFiery   Aug-11-07 12:08 AM   #78 
  - She's been a candidate since 2000  sandnsea   Aug-10-07 06:35 PM   #6 
  - and john edwards has been "running" since kerry conceded  hijinx87   Aug-10-07 06:42 PM   #10 
  - So she has different values as a Senator than as a President?  Terri S   Aug-11-07 07:25 PM   #101 
  - There's no double standard  creeksneakers2   Aug-10-07 07:01 PM   #21 
  - If, as you just said,  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:12 PM   #25 
     - Obama said he'd never use the weapons. n/t  creeksneakers2   Aug-10-07 08:16 PM   #61 
        - Is using nukes a good thing? Just askin'  earthlover   Aug-11-07 03:50 PM   #96 
           - Could you imagine if OBAMA would've said nuking Pakistan is on the table?  jenmito   Aug-11-07 03:54 PM   #97 
           - The threat of using nukes can help  creeksneakers2   Aug-11-07 04:07 PM   #98 
              - In the mountains of Pakistan?  Terri S   Aug-11-07 07:29 PM   #102 
              - To be precise, Obama said "the mountains BETWEEN Afghanistan and Pakistan"  Bongo Prophet   Aug-12-07 02:34 AM   #123 
                 - You should ask the Pakistani "spokesman" (from the govt.) who was on Late Edition this morning  jenmito   Aug-12-07 03:57 PM   #134 
                    - There is no sense of humor anymore on DU, even on weekends? Maybe it was taken seriously? Sorry.  Bongo Prophet   Aug-12-07 07:35 PM   #146 
                       - I have a great sense of humor, but...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 08:04 PM   #148 
                          - Thanks for being cool about it, jenmito  Bongo Prophet   Aug-12-07 10:11 PM   #167 
                             - No problem, Bongo!  jenmito   Aug-12-07 10:35 PM   #168 
              - Hillary didn't think the threat of nukes could help in Iran...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 08:46 PM   #103 
                 - Fact of the matter is, Hillary said they would not be on the table...that was before she said....  earthlover   Aug-11-07 09:50 PM   #107 
                    - Exactly....  jenmito   Aug-11-07 09:57 PM   #110 
  - as pointed out here-----CONTEXT is very important.  rodeodance   Aug-10-07 07:03 PM   #22 
  - If SHE was president, she would take nukes off the table re: striking Iran...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:19 PM   #26 
     - In listening to the actual debate----she clearly was talking about a 'hypo=  rodeodance   Aug-10-07 07:44 PM   #38 
        - So was Obama. Unless I missed something...  jenmito   Aug-10-07 07:49 PM   #41 
           - I was referring to previous and past statement made by Clinton (not Obama)  rodeodance   Aug-10-07 07:58 PM   #50 
           - They're ALL hypotheticals.  jenmito   Aug-10-07 08:56 PM   #67 
           - She doesn't DO hypotheticals when she doesn't want to answer a question....  earthlover   Aug-12-07 06:33 AM   #124 
              - Exactly...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 11:08 AM   #126 
  - matthews shocked me by acutally saying something true rather than gush about Hillary  illinoisprogressive   Aug-10-07 09:28 PM   #71 
  - Me, too! That's what inspired me to start this thread!  jenmito   Aug-10-07 10:13 PM   #74 
     - To Rupert Murdoch, the Political Ruling Elite and their Journalistic Errand Boys/Girls  ShortnFiery   Aug-11-07 12:15 AM   #79 
        - That's the problem...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:44 AM   #90 
  - I was amazed it hit the MSM also!  superkia   Aug-11-07 12:15 AM   #80 
  - Especially Tweety saying it! n/t  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:46 AM   #91 
  - I have decided that Matthews has something wrong with him  pirhana   Aug-11-07 12:27 AM   #81 
  - Well, he DOES have diabetes...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:55 AM   #92 
  - He is right. She is a flip flopper and she everyone knows it.  Ethelk2044   Aug-11-07 04:16 PM   #99 
     - At least MORE people know it now that a couple weeks ago...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 06:26 PM   #100 
  - She's not ready for prime time.  killbotfactory   Aug-11-07 01:46 AM   #82 
  - it certainly was naive....and unaccetable to attack another candidate for the same thing she said  earthlover   Aug-11-07 09:40 AM   #85 
  - Yup.  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:58 AM   #94 
  - I love your  jenmito   Aug-11-07 11:57 AM   #93 
  - without reading the OP or thread -- I don't like the word "flip-flop"  AtomicKitten   Aug-11-07 09:47 PM   #106 
  - To each his/her own...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 09:58 PM   #111 
  - sorry  AtomicKitten   Aug-11-07 10:10 PM   #112 
     - I understand...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 10:27 PM   #115 
        - that must be it -- too fresh from 2004  AtomicKitten   Aug-11-07 10:30 PM   #118 
           - What do you mean by "SS Clinton"?  jenmito   Aug-11-07 10:43 PM   #119 
              - don't let anybody kid you, she's kicking butt  AtomicKitten   Aug-11-07 10:44 PM   #120 
                 - Nationally it seems that way...  jenmito   Aug-11-07 10:47 PM   #121 
                    - national polls are largely shaped by the early primary/caucus states  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 04:32 PM   #138 
                       - They are?  jenmito   Aug-12-07 06:44 PM   #140 
                          - The nomination was a done deal for Kerry after Iowa and New Hampshire.  Alexander   Aug-12-07 06:46 PM   #142 
                          - I know...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 08:11 PM   #150 
                          - the poll numers don't matter until the early states start to come in  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 07:13 PM   #145 
                             - I know that.  jenmito   Aug-12-07 08:13 PM   #151 
                                - I'm not sure that I said that, either.  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 08:16 PM   #152 
                                   - You didn't...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 08:18 PM   #154 
                                      - I am careful about what fact I bring into evidence  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 08:22 PM   #156 
                                         - OK...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 08:30 PM   #158 
                                            - she is good people.  hijinx87   Aug-12-07 08:34 PM   #159 
                                               - That's ok...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 08:48 PM   #161 
  - Gives me a rash.  AZBlue   Aug-12-07 10:52 PM   #170 
  - this suprises people?  HuffleClaw   Aug-12-07 01:42 AM   #122 
  - I agree. It just shows how she can not take one side of an issue.  Ethelk2044   Aug-12-07 08:30 AM   #125 
  - So now we're borrowing tactics from the GOP?  AZBlue   Aug-12-07 08:24 PM   #157 
     - No...Kerry did NOT flip-flop...  jenmito   Aug-12-07 09:18 PM   #163 
        - I why are you using their derogatory term??  AZBlue   Aug-12-07 10:52 PM   #169 
           - I believe Hillary changed her position as a calculated move to look strong compared to Obama.  jenmito   Aug-13-07 11:11 AM   #172 

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